Amazon Hunt mod/rebuild

which is where stern has gone wrong. Other than a couple, would anyone consider those to be anything other than average?

I guess you can say the same for the later Williams as well. All flash, but no substance when you dig into it. Some may be real cool at the beginning, but as you play more games, you feel lacking in terms of gameplay.

How many more 7 fan layouts are they gonna keep making one after another anyway? I guess we really do need a new type of game, because after 10 years of basically the same game design theory, it gets a bit boring.
 
I must agree with you on that shiva and I feel the answer is not so much in a radical new design, although it maybe considered radical. I feel the answer is to revisit past designs and combine the old with the new, taking features from both and combining them in a new unique way.
 
StevOz said:
I must agree with you on that shiva and I feel the answer is not so much in a radical new design, although it maybe considered radical. I feel the answer is to revisit past designs and combine the old with the new, taking features from both and combining them in a new unique way.
Click to expand...

Which for the vast majority, the companies have been doing since the 30's. :)

Not as easy as it sounds though. From a arcade standpoint, it all revolves around cost and of course gameplay (or in Stern's case, how many cheap dollar store plastic toys they can glue into the game)

It also has to generally use standard parts, rubber ring sizes etc, and would even change layouts so they could use (and thus mass produce) the same size rubbers.

We may not have those restrictions, but we do have to plan our layouts very carefully when we do a orginal. It has to work and look right, play correctly, the heights have to be perfect if you have a complex ramp structure, and then of course, we have to have the imagination and the talent to be able to do that wild design.

And then, we also have to have the total package, and the commitment to take the time to do it. Arcade games are done by a team of people for a very good reason. No one is that good to be able to do all the aspects of pinball design/art/sound and code by themselves.
 
That's if you say arcade games are good. I lost interest in arcade and video games - take a look at MAME, and how many mah jong, ddr, fighting, and shooter/golf simulations does one need? Mortal Kombat will have 2 extra special moves per character, and 256bit color with the new geforce8 video system...whoohoo...it's the same game. Someone mentioned that arcade games overcame pinball because of jamma cabinets - but now they're going back to game-specific full size enclosures again to add realism. Games isn't where the excitement is, or maybe I'm just getting old - but that new windows vista with 3d semitransparent animated windows will maybe make people put quarters in to use a spreadsheet or word processor for fun - it sure looks cool. :) I don't think you can get any more realistic than microsoft word 10.0! heh
 
I really hope you're wrong about Vista, though the sad thing is I fear you are right. :(

As for since the 30's, sorry that's just plain wrong, invention was occuring then and until the mid 80's, after the ramp and 4 leafed clover design or whatever you choose to call it, invention in pinball died, even worse, older innovations such as roto targets and even spinners were shunned, thus 'the formula' was created.
 
only a few games though, and over the ages as well. It's like VG, someone comes up with a good idea, then everyone will copy it and we see a thousand more just like it.

I know my history of pinball steve. :)

Still driven by money, always will. That's why we don't see true innovation anymore, maybe a lack of competetion now, but back then...

Stern puts out the games they do because they think that will sell better. We are not so limited, and can create what we want, as long as it falls within the bountries of VP, it's not that hard to create different designs, or add new concepts. I think you have seen enough of my private designs to know that when I get in the mood to experiment.

I know POTC is getting great reviews, sounds like a hell of a good game, but then, Bally is back as well now. The companies if they are both strong is nothing but great news for us, because it means their games will be better as well. Maybe innovation will have to follow as well, if they want to stay in business.
 
What they have removed is things that need maintaining
A rototarget, droptargets, these things need attention
A ramp, eddy sensors, electro magnets should work longer with less operator hassles

The three main toys on CV (Ringmaster, popup popbumper, the backbox shooter) if they don’t work 100% then it is not as much fun to play the game
 
Another update.

I did the top targets, complete with bulb fixtures, animated targets, and of course the rubber and post models.

It's all decals and reels.
Actually took a few hours just to do that, but I'm a stickler for placing reels and decals perfectly, and aligning them perfectly with the invisible physical object. I waste a lot of time doing this.
Of course, just creating the images took a bit of work.

This screenshot generally shows it, but it will look much better at full size. Targets animate subtly but nicely.
That was the hard part of what is left!

Now, just need to add the new apron, rollovers, and the bottom and top metal guide rails.
Thats about it!
Almost there....

AmazonHunt_Screenshot2.jpg
 
Shouldn't there be 5 targets on the left?
 
destruk said:
Shouldn't there be 5 targets on the left?
Click to expand...

There is!
This obviously isn't full size screenshot (1600x1200 is).
All the targets on the left are dropped in this screen.
Since the middle one is near black and the darkness in the hole is black, it is hard to see. If you look really close you can make out the top of the drop which is a lighter black.
But easier to see at full screen.

Its all there though!
 
It looks pretty good in the screenshot. I think the black background of the table is helping me as you know I think most decal tables just don't cut the mustard.
 
Another update. Doesn't look like too much was done, but took me a while.
I created myself 9 animated rollover trigger reels. Not a big deal, but they are new and look different and better, IMO, than how I used to do them.
With them, its really starting to look like a full pinball machine.

But what I actually spent a few hours doing was, however petty, creating drop target reels for the left bank to eliminate the crap VP auto shading.
I always hated how VP seemed like it had just one light in the "virtual" room the table is in, but it was on the ceiling and WAY off to the left.
I don't know about anybody else, but most times I play pinballs I'm not playing with all the lighting far on just one side of the room, making one half of the table shaded and the other not.

Anyhow, what I did was replicate the left bank on the right side of the table, then placed them accurately so that if I flipped the table horizontally they would go right into place on the other side.
Took a screen, cut the targets out, flipped them horizontally, then made myself some target reels that look exactly like the drop targets on the other side.
You can't tell they are reels, they are fitted in there perfectly, look just like the other side.
Usually, I use reels for neater visual effects, but not this time.

With the rollovers and this drop target thing done, this only leaves me importing the new apron, placing the top divider lanes, which should look nice like the bottom ones, and add the metal guide rails by the flippers and along the top of the table.
Oh yeah, the gates too.
But the hard part is way over.
I'm short on time, but still might be able to finish this any day now, then I can get back to my other projects.
I think everybody will like and appreciate this one, even though it isn't a wildly popular table, especially in the US.

And I will be looking to both joke0 and LTA to get the gameplay accurate, as they have played the tables.
I'll be getting a hold of you guys soon, it's nearly playable when I get the guide wires put in.

Screenie...

AmazonHunt_Screenshot3.jpg
 
Looks great rob. :) Keep it up buddy :)
 
Does look very good, just one thing I noticed which puzzles me, the bonus count reads top to bottom 100,000 90,000 80,000 70,000 60,000 50,000 40,000 then 10,000 20,000 1????? (flipper in way)? Should that 10,000 near the U be a 30,000? Then again on reflection it maybe just the resolution of the screenshot, nevermind as you were.
 
StevOz said:
Does look very good, just one thing I noticed which puzzles me, the bonus count reads top to bottom 100,000 90,000 80,000 70,000 60,000 50,000 40,000 then 10,000 20,000 1????? (flipper in way)? Should that 10,000 near the U be a 30,000? Then again on reflection it maybe just a the resolution of the screenshot, nevermind as you were.
Click to expand...

You had me worried for a second, although it would of been a pretty easy fix. I did do some redraw work on that area (most of it around the flipper area, and a bunch of touch ups on the whole thing), and thought maybe I redrew or pasted the wrong section there.

But no, I checked and its fine. It is the resolution and resizing that makes that look like a one.
This is partly a casualty of the font as well, which makes a very narrow 3 to begin with.
In full screen, you can better make out that it is a 3, although it still looks narrow.
I don't think this is part of the text I put in, which I did do myself in some areas. This is just how it really looks on the PF. In any case, it should look more like a 3 in full screen. If people still think it looks like a 1 and I need to do an update anyhow, maybe I'll widen the 3.
 
Another quick update. Not lots has been done in terms of the screenshot, but what was done took a while longer than placing a few walls.

In this screen, whats new from #3 above is that the top lane dividers are done. I had some concern with how this would turn out as I knew it might be difficult getting all 4 created, then fitting them onto the table at the correct angles and correct resize/skew.

But I'm happy with how they turned out and they look like, IMO, they blend right in on the table and look like normal objects. Of course that is my goal for all these decals and reels.

I may or may not do a little PF lighting around these guides, there is already a little.
But this type of PF doesn't require much lighting, partly because of all the black on the PF that doesn't light up very well anyhow.

Well, this is done, and as with everything else you see the physical objects are all functional and sitting behind all the decals, I do that as I go. So the table is very playable, physical hidden walls n' stuff are pretty much in the right place although I might do further tweaking when I get to testing. With the testing I have done, and just with the lane guides, they are really feeling like VP objects.

Not much left to do! Guide wires by the flippers and along the top plastics, gates, and import new apron (which just needs imported).
Then testing.
If anybody but joke0 and LTA has played the table, they are welcome to test as well.

I forgot to update my final stripped PF creation, so here is the orig pic, stripped PF creation, and where I'm at now with the latest screen...

Original source pic...

AmazonHunt_original.jpg

after (stripped PF creation, you probably need to zoom on it as it's the version I imported, VP size at 1024x, but my original is even bigger)...

AmazonHunt_StripCreation.jpg

Current....

AmazonHunt_wip4.jpg
 
Looks super. Will the new apron have a cutout for the plunger and any upgrade from VP's default plunger?
 
Graphics do look rather spot on, just wondering have you tried stretching the playfield image to a full 1024 in width and appling a sharpen or detail filter, VP will often render such images slightly better. I can clealy see the 3 in the 30,000 in the playfield shot just one of those font things.
 
Yeah, that apron is just a temp one, so I don't even have the cutout in it yet, but I will.
The apron was a really different color, like green and yellow, so I was happy to turn the colors into what they are now, which is what the orig apron should look like, but I've run into a better apron recently that I think will edit better and cleaner.
Should add a nice touch and turn out better than what is in there.

StevOz, my PF is definitely 1024x, especially since full size was even bigger than that, so it isn't like I had to grow it to reach that res. Considering what I was working with, I was happy with how the PF turned out, and also with the fact that it was highres. This means it can be used for FP as well. And probably will.
Anyhow, this PF was similar to creating a pizza dough. It was beaten, flattened, tossed, repaired holes, beat it again, add some flour, flipped and twirled it!

In other words, I used a lot of tools on it to get it where it is. Sharpen I'm sure was one of them. Of course something I often do, since this PF is patchwork, could be sharpening up certain areas. I did replace text, ect.

So maybe only a couple areas might benefit. I might look into it, although I also thought these screenshots definitely look blurry compared to the original screenshot, which is 1600x1200. For the screen, I shrink that to 800x600, then compress a little. The new PS actually has a choice during the resize that adds a bit more sharpening (or less) than the normal resize. Haven't really played around with that though.

In any case, it is the resize and slight compression that makes some areas look as if they need a sharpen, but some actually might need it. Those are all things I go over before the release, so if any areas can benefit, I'll give them a sharpen.

I also wanted to talk about the decal method a little more and how its really precision based, to ease the fears bob has about decal tables! I do try to go that extra mile to make sure everything comes together smoothly.
I have the same concerns with decal tables, which is why I'm probably as picky as anyone.
Maybe I'll talk about how I've been doing things with this table, but gotta go! Have finals today!
 
OK, this things nearing completion. Finally had time today to get lots done.
I know this screenshot won't look like there is a ton of more stuff done, but a good 7 more hours was put into it.
And thats how it is when I do a table like this.
I actually did some fixing and adjusting of a couple decals and a plastic, which was a pain in the ass once you get this far then realize you need to change something because you need to change the decal, the reel, the object, bla bla.

Otherwise, the one part I was kind of concered about turned out pretty well. For the gottlieb gate bracket, I don't have a good shot for a decal, and FP doesn't even have the model, so I had to make due with drop walls for them.
Along with an added post by the one gate and a couple other little changes, you'll notice the top rail, which looks nice and smooth as it is a decal, and I carved out parts so it fit through the brackets correctly.

Oh, I got monkey targets! And the center drop is similar, but new as well. Popotte was able to find me some neat images of these.
I didn't even know the original AH used monkey decals on the yellow drops until he I sort of noticed it on a flyer.
I was going to leave things as is, but it was pretty easy to change all the target decals on that left reel side cuz I saved the psd file I was using.
So its nice that all that is authentic and looks better.

Then I added smooth metal lane guides at the bottom of the table. Kind of hard to make them out with the smaller screenshot though, but they turned out nice as well. I much prefer doing stuff like this especially for metal rails as VP rail guides are way too jaggy for my liking.
There are probably lots of nice details that aren't too striking with the smaller screenshot, but if anybody feels like seeing a full size screeny, I can post one.
But I hope the release is coming very soon anyhow. I need to finish this up as I got other stuff to do.
The table is about playable so maybe I'll send it out for testing tommorrow.

Otherwise, aside from whatever small tweaks here and there, all that really needs done is the apron, which I will replace, and of course put score/instruction cards on it, thanks to peter.
That will be no problem.

Here is the latest screenie....

AmazonHunt_wip5.jpg
 
OK, we are at testing stage. I'll soon be sending out to LTA and joke0 and they can check out the gameplay.
Visually, it is finally done. And is fully playable, and functional, of course.
I've been unexpectedly short on time lately, so I wanted to cram and get this finished.
I have so many other projects and commitments to catch up on.

Anyhow, the latest screen is below. It should, at least 99% like the finished version. I might do something with the plunger, but thats about it. Not much more I can do with this one.

Since the last screen, I finished the lower guide wires, and rebuilt a gottlieb apron and shooter cover, as the last one was the best I had, and was pretty ugly, misplaced, and distorted.
This one looks much better. And with the addition of being able to use Peters recreated instruction/score cards as decals on the apron, they really look sharp. I can actually read them while playing! That is rare for VP, so thanks Peter.

So just details left. sounds, probably some tweaks, then we are good to go!

AmazonHunt_Fin.jpg
 
Looking really sweet rob. :)
 
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