Coming Up: VIP Ultimate!

I'm not sure if what you've posted above should be taken as a threat or what, Phoenixx, but, as always, you're being ridiculous.

You always seem to take issue with whatever it is I do. I awaited a response from my last PM, which never came. Apparently, your interpretation has once again gone awry and you found something you could construe as "unwillingness". There was no such thing.

In closing, to think you have exclusive rights to produce an installer for VP is ludicrous. You're as delusional as a person can be if you really believe you have any kind of exclusive right to produce an installer of any kind, VP or otherwise.

I have bigger and better plans ahead, and I know I cannot ask you to be involved, as you've made it clear you don't want to be.

Good GAWD, man, get over yourself!
 
I think i have made myself clear. Nothing more to add. But for your sake i do hope that you did understand what i said.

As for this:
Apparently, your interpretation has once again gone awry and you found something you could construe as "unwillingness". There was no such thing.

No such thing:

"I am a little apprehensive still, just because of all the stress PN's members have put on me."

"I really like your ideas, but it's too early to commit to anything."


"I hope you understand that I am willing, but hesitant at this point."


Sound familiar? The question i had to ask myself; exactly what do i have to do with what other people are doing? And why would that have any relevance as to what goes on between you and me? Frankly im not exactly sure, (in fact im at a total loss), and thats why i couldnt help but thinking that i am wasting my time with someone who is desperately trying to back out.

Was i wrong? Maybe. But there is a way to find out, so why dont we simply check it our if my gutfeeling was right or not.

Heres what i will do: To keep this between the two of us i will send you a PM and tell you what i expect of you. If you agree we can start with a clean slate and i will give you and the members at .org all the support i can. If you dont agree, well, then please go away and stop wasting my time.
 
No such thing:

"I am a little apprehensive still, just because of all the stress PN's members have put on me."

"I really like your ideas, but it's too early to commit to anything."


"I hope you understand that I am willing, but hesitant at this point."

Sound familiar?

LOL. Yes, you've got me there. Obviously, I displayed an absolute "unwillingness". To be hesitant and apprehensive is only natural for anyone after the things you've said. Which should answer your next question...

The question i had to ask myself; exactly what do i have to do with what other people are doing? And why would that have any relevance as to what goes on between you and me?

...thinking that i am wasting my time with someone who is desperately trying to back out.

Back out of what?

Desperate? Sometimes I wonder how anyone can have such outlandish misconceptions.

Heres what i will do: To keep this between the two of us i will send you a PM and tell you what i expect of you. If you agree we can start with a clean slate and i will give you and the members at .org all the support i can. If you dont agree, well, then please go away and stop wasting my time.

Your PM lists demands, not a solution at all to our differences, and after your previous threats, the only response that comes to mind is, "We don't negotiate with terrorists."

So, I consider this over and done, and if you really want me to go away, stop threatening me. You've taken this WAY too far, Kevin.
 
Pleased to see that not only my gutfeeling was right, but that i was right all along. Thank you Noah, you cant imagine what that means to me. :)


Now for the usual round of clarifications and i am ready to have a nice day:


Yes, you've got me there. Obviously, I displayed an absolute "unwillingness".
The old words-twisting. Boring, but a nice opener. Problem here is that i never spoke of any 'absolute unwillingness', but that i merely said and i quote: "i dont think he is willing". 'I dont think' being the operative words here, you know, as in being apprehensive, hesitant, sceptical? Im sure you see the difference now, but since i was right anyway, does it even matter? Probably not,...

To be hesitant and apprehensive is only natural for anyone after the things you've said.
First of all; its not. For you maybe, but generally it is not. Because the very purpose of two persons entering into talks is obviously to get beyond what was said and done earlier, not to keep holding whatever they said or did against them. If you do that, you dont need to talk. And i for one made it very clear that i am willing to focus on a productive relationship, so a reason for being apprehensive and hesitant was not given. On the contrary, i approached you 100% non-judgemental and fair-minded and even let you in on my future plans regarding the VIP, which i was willing to include you in if we settle the issues. What i got in return is history.

Second of all, all of this is entirely beside the point because the reason you gave for your 'apprehension and hesitance' was the behaviour of other people at PN and not me.

Back out of what?

Desperate? Sometimes I wonder how anyone can have such outlandish misconceptions.
Its odd, isnt it? How anyone could *possibly* think that somebody is trying to back out when they keep claiming they do want to settle things, yet keep bringing on nothing but lame excuses whenever the other is trying to get down to business? Especially when we consider that this has been the very modus operandi right from the beginning and remained unchanged ever since? Very, very odd in deed. I dont know, but you really must be thinking everyone in the world is stupid except you.

In my opinion the truth is this; after all that happened you simply didnt think that i would ever be actually willing to talk, hence my sudden approaching you with friendliness and proverbial open arms forced you into the 'unfortunate' situation of having to find some way of getting out of it without making it clear beyond the shadow of a doubt that settling things with me is actually the last thing you would ever want to do as that would have proven one for all times that i was right about you all along. Its either that or you really meant to settle things that first day but somehow regretted it later because you felt it would be too 'demeaning' to 'give in to an enemy', especially if that 'enemy' is Phoenixx1771 who had the guts to speak out loud what a lot of people were and still are thinking. In fact it might well be a bit of both, otherwise you would have come up with something better than 'i am apprehensive because of PN members', which are obviously people whose actions i have nothing to do with at all,...



Your PM lists demands, not a solution at all to our differences,
The demands WERE the solution genious, if you dont recognize that then you just cant be very smart. I mean come on, you didnt seriously expect that 'solving the issue' means that i eventually give in while your contribution is limited to sweettalking me, did you? That concept might have worked with others, but with me solving an issue requires that you meet me half way at the least, otherwise you might as well save your breath.

(For the record: What i 'demanded' (i personally prefer 'requested') was 1) to put a note on the site, anywhere at his discretion, that says that VPForums was originally founded by AJ, and 2) that he stops using the name 'VPForums' in case AJ ever comes back and states that he doesnt want him to use it.)

and after your previous threats, the only response that comes to mind is, "We don't negotiate with terrorists."

The 'terrorists' bit, well, lovely and all, but coming from you it sounds rather hilarious. In my opinion you should really leave those kinds of lines to people who are talking to you, because at least then it makes sense. Still thanks for the entertainment and of course for proving my point one more time.

As for the rest, i assure you that threats will be the least of your problems if you do plagiarize my concept even though you have my express permission to distribute the VIP. (Which you still dont, do you?) In fact i have already gathered a few interesting informations and lets just say that i am 'fairly pleased' by what i have found out. So for fairness sake i urge you again to take this seriously because i am not just fooling around here. If you think i was pissed when i saw that you stole AJs forumname even though the original site was still online then you verily aint seen nothing yet. But it can be arranged if necessary, and believe me, it will,...
 
Well, you needn't worry about me plagiarizing your VIP. I'm creating an installer from scratch.
 
Oh fuck, here we go again. I don't have anything more to add here, except that I am now going to stay as far away from this shitstorm as I can.

The McD
 
Kevin, why don't you share with us what I would be doing wrong?

We are here to support a FREEWARE community, and yet you behave as if you have exclusive rights to an installer?

Do you have any idea how ludicrous that is?

I will continue development on our installer for the purpose of adding site specific features that you would have no desire to add to your VIP. Your unwillingness to work together has left me no alternative, but to compose one for VPForums.org.

Enough of the "warnings". If you have valid reasoning that creating an installer would be somehow unlawful infringement on your VIP, let me know.

If not, then stop be childish and accept the fact that the show will go on, regardless of you being involved or not.
 
*sigh*

Paul, since im a reasonable guy i will make one last attempt at talking to you in private.

I have to go offline now though, so if i dont come back anymore tonite (its 10:00 PM here) i will contact you tomorrow afternoon my time.
 
Huch!?

I still haven't used/tried VP 9 (much/only one single test) and I guess I know how to install/setup VP 8/9, so I wasn't that interested/excited about a new VIP, so I didn't post.

I think the idea about the detachment of the different versions is really nice. Another file extension should have been implemented from begin of VP 9 on. Now as there are so many tables in many versions out/released, it's difficult. It's to fear that things and people become more confused than they are already.

You know, I'm already confused since long! My additional confusion about all the different tables and the current changings/renamings in the download sections at VP.org were, besides the mass of new/changed/updated/modded/... tables and missing common interests in the VPLauncher.dat, the main reason I canceled the intention to update the VPLauncher.dat, already before I started. All the table downloads (and that were many) became completely unsorted, although I tried to sort them all the way.

Even if I never really tried your VIP in realtime, Phoenixx (just a test or two/three on the VIP some version numbers ago), I was convinced, it's the right thing and I tried to support you to improve it. I remember I posted a few times to give some info on this or that.

Thank you for all of your efforts on the VIP! It has probably helped a lot of people to install/setup VP/VPM well.

Even if you don't like another all in all installer besides the VIP (that's some understandable as you put much work into it and as it - I assume - works perfectly well for most/all), you don't have an exclusive right to offer a solution, that makes the installation/setup of VP/VPM easier than the standard/intended way of the single program authors.

Actually I'm somehow disappointed by VPF.org and I didn't log in/post for some days (can change again and I will log in again soon, maybe today, because I want some downloads and I want to post about the unwanted and unrequested changings in my Visual Pinball (VP) and Visual PinMAME (VPM) installation/setup guide, which also (besides the manual installation/setup text) refered to your VIP), but in this relation I don't exactly understand your need of any threat towards VPF.org. Can you please make your apprehension more clear for all? Thanks.

You see it's nothing against you or the VIP, it's only a request to make your thinking more clear/understandable.
 
Thank you Yogi for the nice words. I really appreciate that.

As for the 'other' thing, i will not comment on this in public until i heard back from Noah.

Sorry, its nothing personal.
 
I like the idea of separate extensions for the various versions.... I'll rename the vp9 tables as i download them if i need to.
If you need bata testers I have a rig with a fresh install of XP and a Fresh install of Windows7 to test in.
 
Excellent, testers would be cool!

I will still wait a little with the publishing though, because if Noah responds they way i hope him to respond then i will integrate site information and shortcuts to vpf.org first,...
 
I am pleased to inform everyone that Noah and I have settled our differences.

We have made a deal which was acceptable to both sides, and i for one am now looking forward to a constructive cooperation.

See you all tomorrow, my bed is calling and i really have to go sleeping now.
 
I haven't really followed this thread much, but a 3rd type of VP? I had enough trouble getting to 8, have but a few ones in 9(4:3 only) and don't have a clue with 16x9 or even how to set it up. I just like to play the games and marvel at the talent this group has.

Sorry if I come off wrong, but I just spent the bulk of my day off trying to fix what should be a somewhat simple installation of a security suite for 2 computers. Little did I know I'd be talking one moment then letting someone I don't even know navigate around my computer to hopefully fix the damn thing(mine worked out fine, the other.....CRAP). And to think this is what I wanted to do for a living! I'd either be on nerve meds all day or possibly dead.

Again, thanks for all you do. Lets just be one big happy family.
 
Oh well, the VIP 3Click isnt even officially announced yet and its already outdated. :puck:

Believe it or not but i have just solved the entire VP8/9 problem all by myself. The new VIP (from now on 'Visual Install Pack - Ultimate') installs a fully working dual-setup where each table-type can only be run in the proper version. The 'Tables' folder is gone, instead there is a 'VP8 Tables' and a 'VP9 Tables' folder now which makes it very easy to keep the two incompatible table-types apart. The settings for VP8 and VP9 are also fully separated from each other which means you can set VP8 to run in fullscreen and VP9 to run in windowed etc as each VP version has its own registry key to store its values. In fact if you wish you can even run a VP8 and a VP9 table simultanously, right next to each other, because the one version does not in the slightest interfere with the other.

This has become possible because i did what nanotech should have done from the beginning; namely giving VP9 Tables a different extension. The setup is therefore now so that VP8 will only accept and load tables with a .vpt extension whereas VP9 will only accept and load tables with a .vp9 extension. The auto-load upon clicking a table file is integrated into this as well, which ensures that doubleclicking a table file will automatically start the right version of VP. Of course this means that existing VP9 tables with a .vpt extension will have to be renamed to .vp9, (which kind of makes sense anyway), but thats not a problem because the VP9 editor can now save as .vp9 (exclusively) and i also put a batch file in the 'VP9 Tables' folder which upon running will automatically rename all .vpt's in the folder to .vp9. The batch file can be reused as often as needed.

(New tables should of course only be released with a .vp9 extension anymore, but i will get to that in detail in a seperate thread.)



The Ultimate build is already done (its 3-Click too) and its working great. Cant tell you how pleased i am to see that it works so well because this is not just an update this time, this actually changes the whole substructure to what it should be, which in turn means a great leap forward to the whole VPinball thing at large. (At least in my opinion.) A release thread will follow later, i worked on this for nearly 20 hours nonstop, compiling, fixing, compiling, fixing, straight through the night, so i really have to take a nap now. You may gladly post a line or two in the meantime though,...i will be back in a couple of hours,...


Thank you, Phoenixx - I'm really looking forward to your release of this:)
 
whew! I am glad you two sysops have settled your differences. I thought I'd have to find two dueling pistols and let you two go at it! Man it got heated there for a while. ok Phoenix, I am thrilled that you mentioned that the tables would be able to autorun WITHOUT running into problems. That is one beef I always had. My vp8's always autoran, but for the vp9's to work I had to load up vp9 and manually load and open then play each vp9 table. I don't have that many vp9'ws so to change the ext, is no prob for me. Others may bitch, but if I can have ALL my table autorun it would help out alot! so thanks for taking the time and effort to make this.
noah< I'm not sure if you are still making the installer too, if you are kudos to you too, for all the hard work, if you are letting phoenix use his on your site than gratz on settling your differences (without burying a hatchet in each others backs)
NOW, hopefully we CAN all just get along...
 
Any news on when VIP Ultimate will be released?

BJJB
 
and another is better ball physics, bigger ball, see through ramps and that ever present 'can't create off-screen z-surface', crash to desktop bug. ok aside from that, vp9 is a good program!

I ran into the 'Can't create off-screen object' error a while back, directly after manually editing some of the settings in my video card. (BFG Geforce 7300GT)

Turns out, in regards to VP8, if you lower the Antialiasing to a value lower than 4X it causes that error. VP9 didn't have a problem with it.

I know it's not the same error you mentioned, but reading the post made me think of it.
 
Any news on when VIP Ultimate will be released?

BJJB
If all goes according to plan the new dual-setup package will be released during next week,...
 
It's good to hear that you will be releasing this soon - I'm curious to "look under the hood" to see how you were able to use 2 registry keys, one for VP9 and one for VP8.

I apologize for not making any suggestions (remembering that you asked for suggestions), but I really wanted to see how this package works before making any suggestions, and I felt that I didn't know enough about your design to make a suggestion.

I recently bought a new computer based partially on your suggestions and other folks on what was needed to properly run VP in another thread (although I decided on the i7 950 for the processor - probably a lot more power than I need, but my geek jones just got the best of me :)), looking forward to running VP9 and VP8 without changing out executables.

Spent some time trying to make my own software to pre-load the registry, copy the proper VP exe version (for VP6, 8, and 9), and set the screen environments using an XML file which mapped a table name to a VP version, but I was having some DMD display trouble that I attributed to running a VP8 after a VP9 table - the 2 registry settings should tell me a lot.

Thanx again for your hard work and advice...

BJJB (short for Billy Joe Jim Bob)
 
...the 2 registry settings should tell me a lot.
Im afraid they wont...at least not more than you know already.

Because the only change in this area is that VP9 gets its own subkey so that neither VP version can interfere with the settings of the other anymore.

(Currently VP8 and VP9 are constantly overwriting each others settings. VP9 also adds an extra subkey to the shared key which VP8 doesnt know. With individual keys this will be avoided in the future.)
 
Currently VP8 and VP9 are constantly overwriting each others settings.

I noticed that VP9 sets the resolution different than VP8 does. It's not really a problem here for me, but it does seem to be a settings bug that needs to be fixed. I'll be sure to check out your installer when it's released. Thanks
 
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