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Future Pinball and BAM finding a new home

Gimli

Pinball Wizard
@shiva
Hi Shiva (blue),
As you know GoPinball is a disaster right now and over run by spam and unacceptable lag , with no support from moderators.
It is too bad but it seems like it may be time to pull out and find a new home.

Many of us frequent other sites (Vpinball, VPForums etc...) but perhaps Pinball Nirvana can be a Future Pinball Nirvana...
Most threads here are > 1 year old so a little update may be welcome

Addendum: It should read "Administrators" not "moderators" sorry Popotte, I wasn't referring to you. I appreciate all you have done at GoPinball :appl:
 
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Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
@Gimli,
Interesting timing, if so.

The site went through a major upgrade near the beginning of the year, and has been undergoing a series of smaller ones ever since. Now might be a good time to drop by and offer suggestions if you like, as we continue to improve and build the site. (switching to XenForo lets us do a lot of things we weren't able to do with VBulletin)

When you say 'most threads are over a year old,' I guess that's fairly true of the FP section. Lately, the FP area has mainly been a place for folks like Mark1, Tii, fastdraw and FranciscoPozo to upload their tables. There's not a lot of chitchat outside of the release threads these days.

Personally I'd kind of like to see more help and support questions both posed and answered. I tried to do my best in Shiva's release thread for Jungle Girl, but I'm not much of an FP guy.

Btw, you can use the ampersand "@" to tag Shiva (like I did with your name) so that he'll get a little notification next time he stops by. Lately I guess he's been working away on his FP stuff and not posting so much...
 

Gimli

Pinball Wizard
@Ike Savage
Thanks.
Ya Paul posted an invitation to check out PN at GoPinball.
It would be cool if we could somehow migrate some of our tutorials and especially the BAM related stuff here somehow without contaminating PN with all the SPAM
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
@Ike Savage
Thanks.
Ya Paul posted an invitation to check out PN at GoPinball.
It would be cool if we could somehow migrate some of our tutorials and especially the BAM related stuff here somehow without contaminating PN with all the SPAM
Well, feel free to upload files to resources or post to the FP section, here.

If it's clearly a valuable post, I don't have a problem stickying it.

Is GoPinball the same place GeorgeH has all his good info and guides?
 

Gimli

Pinball Wizard
@Ike Savage
Yes we both have a number of tutorials there. Also Terry Red has been doing some amazing guides and videos that we all are supporting.
FP's potential is about to go ballistic...check out this :
 
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meklek

Pinball Nudger
Just to follow up... Yes, it would be nice to have another "GoPInball" (and "Pinsimdb"). The volume of material on both sites is incredible. But, as noted, they are overrun with spam and often so slow that I give up. I have been trying for days to respond to a question and have not even been able to log in to answer it. Pinball Nirvana would be great, but I "think" most folks skip it and try GoPinball since there is not much here for FP.

On another note: Wow! The BAM PuP plug-in looks simply awesome! I hope I am able to install it :)
For some reason, I was never able to get PuP to work properly with my other pinball software.
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
Yeah, looks great!

Pretty sure I've looked up the meaning of "PuP" in the past, but after awhile I always forget what it means! But some day when I have more time and energy to spend with FP, I'm sure that will change. These days I spend pretty much all my pinball time doing support, admin and project stuff for the site.

But regarding spam, that was one of the massive changes around here that came with the big upgrade. Suddenly we had direct integration with "StopForumSpam," a global network of hundreds or thousands of sites cooperating together to identify spammers by various info and stop them dead in their tracks.

Other than some older spam from years past buried here and there, the site is now spam-free, the server runs fast, and we've got cutting-edge forum software. So it's a clean slate of sorts.

If you guys wanted to help get us up to speed on the FP side, you might figure out some good FP content and resources to upload here, assuming author permission.
 

wild

Bam is FP
Staff member
Hi everyone, I introduce myself here, because I could not find the presentation thread...

I'm, Wild of a Pinball table maker, Paolo by name, is I'm Italian.

I noticed blue's invitation, and I followed the suggestion of my friend Gimli, I hope that we at Gopinball can be good visas HERE, and that FP / BAM well received, we have a lot to offer, and also to learn (why not). ...

I have a couple of FP / BAM tables, which I could offer here, but it is important that you use Bam, so before posting them I would like to understand how many people are interested in Bam, and who are willing to use it .... I have already had a little disappointment in another place, and I don't want it to happen again .

thank you all for your attention
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
Hello @wild,
I'm not sure how many people here use BAM. Judging by the FP tables uploaded and downloaded here, I would guess not too many. Take a look at our FP table activity in FP Original Tables and FP Recreations and judge for yourself.

If you read the responses above, I think it's explained reasonably well what the site can offer you, i.e. a clean, well-run platform with good connection speed and lots of storage space. If you guys want to take advantage of that for your needs, you are welcome to.
 

Gimli

Pinball Wizard
If we can get Terry , GeorgeH and Ravarcade to post here stuff here too..then I think that will be a great start. And we already have blue "Shiva" here so we are good to go.

We will see if pinsimdb will last. It has thousands of tables in various states of playability...

We will see if the Moderators at GoPinball return at some point...I hope they do as a lot of us have posted stuff therw that we still rely on .
 
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wild

Bam is FP
Staff member
Hello @wild,
I'm not sure how many people here use BAM. Judging by the FP tables uploaded and downloaded here, I would guess not too many. Take a look at our FP table activity in FP Original Tables and FP Recreations and judge for yourself.

If you read the responses above, I think it's explained reasonably well what the site can offer you, i.e. a clean, well-run platform with good connection speed and lots of storage space. If you guys want to take advantage of that for your needs, you are welcome to.
Thanks Ike Savage.....but before I replied your answer, let me say two words for ya
I don't consider myself a great builder, I have my limits, I'm not are some gopinball greats ... like Francisco666, Rom, smoke, Popotte, and other greats......it took me many years to get where I am for now.....so, I am a boy who has no hair on the tongue, so I speak very directly and seriously,and I always say what I think .

Now...I have seen your suggestions ...and I have seen very little about Bam,and I also saw some names, already known, alas but it's not a problem...but, right now,I do the tables with Bam, so if we don't use it, well .... it is useless that I put tables that nobody then downloads to play with, I don't know if you can understand me...

but I repeat it is not a problem, it could be solved in some way, I have some ideas about it, that I could do, but I don't know if it is feasible for all you..
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
@wild,
Those are some good points. Maybe you will just have to upload some BAM creations and see how much they are downloaded. Maybe see how much people complain when they can't get the BAM table to work in vanilla FP.

In the USA there is a phrase "If you build it, they will come." I think that might just describe the situation here at Pinball Nirvana.

This site naturally has a long history upon VP matters, going back 17 years, but as I think Shiva / Blue was saying, ultimately we're about pinball, and whether you bring FP expertise or any other PB skill, there's a genuine opportunity here to build on top of a long-lasting platform. Of course, you might have to teach us and help us, though. You might have to help put the word out when it comes to modern FP / BAM stuff.

We will always try our best to help make the situation work. I've been here 17 years now (mostly as a common user) and this has always been how this site has worked IMO.
 
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GeorgeH

Super Moderator
Staff member
To be honest, I am reluctant to abandon GoPinball because I put so much effort into the tutorials and other postings there. I have been a member here for a long time although I don't contribute all that much. Is there a place to save tutorials here for Future Pinball? Frankly, I am starting to get tired of updating tables and am slowing down on their production.
 

Gin

Pinball Nudger
Site Supporters
@Gimli @GeorgeH @wild ,
Having eventually logged in to gopinball.com, I have seen the comments about a "New Home for Future Pinball" and found my way here :)

Like yourselves, I agree that it would be a real shame if the sites (gopinball.com / pinsimdb.org etc.) were no longer a viable option for us FP & BAM users - especially as there are years worth of information; all of which is and has been extremely useful in my Virtual Pinball hobby, along with an amazing database / repository of FP tables. I am also hopeful... that if the sites were no longer to be maintained / available, there would at least be an option to export the content for reuse elsewhere.

@Gimli - As you have commented, if others such as @TerryRed, @Tii and @ravarcade etc. start to post here with their latest and greatest, then the FP community would indeed be "Good to Go!" 🥳

@GeorgeH - Although there may not currently be a placeholder on this site for "FP Help / Tutorials"; including "BAM Guides" etc., I am hopeful that through conversations with the sites Admins/Moderators etc. (@Ike Savage / @shiva ?), that there may be a potential addition to the Future Pinball Section in due course. I appreciate that this may not be the ideal solution - but hope that you continue to provide your help and assistance (as it is always appreciated) - irrespective of site; as I see you do on vpforums.org as an example.

@wild - I for one look forward to playing your upcoming release of Charlie's Angels with all of it's BAM goodness - so yet again, I hope that you continue to develop and publish more great tables; so why not consider posting your current WIP here? as a way of kick-starting the "Interest" meter.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a side note... and if still reading 😃 Within the initial script that @Gimli provided for a "TILT Mechanism" recently, there was an element that I would like to understand more - that being "resumevol.enabled = false" - and just wondering about the 'What, Why & When" of the script / command... therefore any help with understanding would be appreciated (please respond via message).
 

Gimli

Pinball Wizard
@Gimli @GeorgeH @wild ,
Having eventually logged in to gopinball.com, I have seen the comments about a "New Home for Future Pinball" and found my way here :)

Like yourselves, I agree that it would be a real shame if the sites (gopinball.com / pinsimdb.org etc.) were no longer a viable option for us FP & BAM users - especially as there are years worth of information; all of which is and has been extremely useful in my Virtual Pinball hobby, along with an amazing database / repository of FP tables. I am also hopeful... that if the sites were no longer to be maintained / available, there would at least be an option to export the content for reuse elsewhere.

@Gimli - As you have commented, if others such as @TerryRed, @Tii and @ravarcade etc. start to post here with their latest and greatest, then the FP community would indeed be "Good to Go!" 🥳

@GeorgeH - Although there may not currently be a placeholder on this site for "FP Help / Tutorials"; including "BAM Guides" etc., I am hopeful that through conversations with the sites Admins/Moderators etc. (@Ike Savage / @shiva ?), that there may be a potential addition to the Future Pinball Section in due course. I appreciate that this may not be the ideal solution - but hope that you continue to provide your help and assistance (as it is always appreciated) - irrespective of site; as I see you do on vpforums.org as an example.

@wild - I for one look forward to playing your upcoming release of Charlie's Angels with all of it's BAM goodness - so yet again, I hope that you continue to develop and publish more great tables; so why not consider posting your current WIP here? as a way of kick-starting the "Interest" meter.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a side note... and if still reading 😃 Within the initial script that @Gimli provided for a "TILT Mechanism" recently, there was an element that I would like to understand more - that being "resumevol.enabled = false" - and just wondering about the 'What, Why & When" of the script / command... therefore any help with understanding would be appreciated (please respond via message).
@Gin
I am glad to see you here !
Hmmm that resume volume is not sonething I have explored but I think you are looking at the code I suggested for SLAMs IJ Stern table.

I merged my Tilt code with the one he was using for that specific table so it contains coding like resumevol that aren't necessary in general for other tables

I took another run at explaining here
 
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wild

Bam is FP
Staff member
[B][USER=27774]Gimli[/USER][/B] said:
To be honest, I am reluctant to abandon GoPinball because I put so much effort into the tutorials and other postings there. I have been a member here for a long time although I don't contribute all that much. Is there a place to save tutorials here for Future Pinball? Frankly, I am starting to get tired of updating tables and am slowing down on their production.
@Gimli
these words of yours leave me a little perplexed ...... however I have already expressed my opinion on GoPinball, that I will never abandon it, unless it closes its doors .... there is a principle to everything and an end, nothing and nobody lasts forever.for the moment Gopinball is not 100% accessible, we know it, we know that it is invaded by spam, and other garbage, and that the administrators are not there, but I am sure that it could be solved ....now, if we want all our work not to be lost, and if here in this place, we could throw the nets, for a future of FP / BAM, I agree, but I don't forget Gopinball,be clear .... to be clear I was invited, I didn't have the presumption to come here . Having said that, I have some suggestions in reply, first for you Bob, on this question of yours"Is there a place to save tutorials here for Future Pinball?"I answer your question, with the ideas that I will suggest to with the answer I will give to Ike Savage....

Those are some good points. Maybe you will just have to upload some BAM creations and see how much they are downloaded. Maybe see how much people complain when they can't get the BAM table to work in vanilla FP.

In the USA there is a phrase "If you build it, they will come." I think that might just describe the situation here at Pinball Nirvana.

This site naturally has a long history upon VP matters, going back 17 years, but as I think Shiva / Blue was saying, ultimately we're about pinball, and whether you bring FP expertise or any other PB skill, there's a genuine opportunity here to build on top of a long-lasting platform. Of course, you might have to teach us and help us, though. You might have to help put the word out when it comes to modern FP / BAM stuff.

We will always try our best to help make the situation work. I've been here 17 years now (mostly as a common user) and this has always been how this site has worked IMO.
@Ike Savage
ok, I think we can all learn many things from each other.....I'm glad you have all this experience, and that you have welcomed us more than well ....
but if I have to start inserting tables with Bam here, first I would like to ask you ... if you agree, to consider these ideas of mine..

In the Fp section ... there are three threads, release, discussion, wip ..... ok
what do you think to add, another ... Bam Corner? ....but
Inside bam corner,(when one clicks into it )3 threads....again...in this way:
1)Bam:discussion,help,tutorial
2)Bam:tables wip, release
3)Bam:Ravarcade update version,and all function

tell me what you think, and if it is feasible for you....IKE
 
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Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
@GeorgeH,
> Is there a place to save tutorials here for Future Pinball?

For now, they can be uploaded to FP Support Files. Other stuff can be set up in sticky threads for the time being. For example, it would be easy enough to split Terry Red's tutorials that Gimli posted to a sticky thread with the catch-all theme of "tutorials."

There's also the fact that "uploaded" resources don't actually have to be discreet resources. They can also be an external link, like to a YT video. Tii also did something like that here: 100+ Tii tables!


@Gin and @wild,
Yes indeed, we are beginning discussions on this stuff. Seems pretty clear we will need to make some expansions.

Kind of waiting on Shiva at this point to drop by and guide us on this stuff...
 

wild

Bam is FP
Staff member
it seems that I have confused the "G", the comment I replied is by Geoge, and not by Gimli, (it seemed strange to me that you would have come to this conclusion) a suggestion: you should insert avaters, to stand out.....excuse me

@wild - I for one look forward to playing your upcoming release of Charlie's Angels with all of it's BAM goodness - so yet again, I hope that you continue to develop and publish more great tables; so why not consider posting your current WIP here? as a way of kick-starting the "Interest" meter.
we will see the developments ....but thanks for appreciation for CA..
 
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TerryRed

Pinball Wizard
Always great to have another home for FP and BAM discussion and support...or for posting tables.

For me, today BAM is now considered a requirement and it's part of Future Pinball. We shouldn't need to worry about anyone not installing BAM to play a new table. I know people have been used to never installing anything else to play FP tables for years... but for any other program, updates and addons are normal. This would have been the case for FP too if things went differently back in 2008.

SLAM used to have the old mindset of making his FP tables work without BAM... but when he finally listened to myself, Gimli and George,etc to make BAM a requirement for his tables... it freed him to make them MUCH better... and he finally started to use BAM's awesome new features!

wild, I wouldn't worry about making a table that needs BAM installed to play it. Everyone today should be using BAM with FP. It's that simple. Even adding code to support older versions of BAM is the same. People need to understand that BAM needs regular updates for new tables. this is going to be the case for a while.

Myself, I have been updating FP tables mainly for cabinet use in the past years... and I still do today..... but the work I do now will benefit desktop users as well. Its a very cool time for FP!

PinEvent is my new creation... and its a standard I made for FP (for myself mainly) to mod FP tables to use DOF, PuP SSF, PuP-Packs, and PUPDMD for cabinet and desktop users.

The nice thing is... I update these tables PinEvent to work without needing DOF or PuP installed at all if you just want to play the FP table like normal without DOF or PUP. You just need the latest BAM, and the PinEvent vbs files installed.

To get an idea about what PinEvent is or looks like, you can check out my showcase video:




I'll be updating more tables for PinEvent as well as updating them for new BAM features. So many I want to do...time is my enemy!


The next big thing that Gimli pointed is the new pup plug-in. This opens up some doors to cool things. Being able to stream any program's window (including pup windows) into FP as any texture to be used anywhere on the table is amazing! Works in VR, Desktop and cabinet modes.


Another crazy example is here when I was testing it.




I'm now in the process of updating PinEvent to support PuP Streaming on all my table mods and pup-packs as well...so you guys can use my PuP features on single screen desktop views as well! you just need a place to display the pup-pack on. that could be a 2nd monitor, dummy plug monitor, or spare input of your monitor. I've used all these options and they work great. A spare input of your monitor may be best though so you can actually see the pup-pack running on there for testing,etc.

I currently have it so you can chose to see the PuP-Pack and PUPDMD on Desktop HUD, the FP Backglass and now on the Apron Cards (using 2 holograms).

PuP Stream Options..jpg
 

TerryRed

Pinball Wizard
The forum looks nice and is FAST... and I like that it supports Youtube links and inserting images directly of a hi resolution siz,etc. This is a big help for me!

I won't abandon GoPinball either...until its goes away completely... but its nice to know there are always places like this to hang out with the dudes who love FP!
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
@TerryRed,
PinEvent is my new creation... and its a standard I made for FP (for myself mainly) to mod FP tables to use DOF, PuP SSF, PuP-Packs, and PUPDMD for cabinet and desktop users.
Thanks for your thoughts and clarifications.

I do need to reiterate that as a guy who doesn't know FP very well, and who has a load of other site-related work ahead of me, I'm probably going to remain a FP noobie for the foreseeable future. That means not really knowing what the terms above mean.

Even when I do some research on them, a few days later I'll typically have forgotten the meanings again, likely because I'm not hands-on enough to burn the terms in. I'm hoping this might change in time, but it is what it is for now. People here can think of me as an admin and early VP archivist for the time being. I'm here for site-related support and to answer a certain amount of VP questions.

I should add that I don't have a permanent cab setup either. I have a widescreen monitor that swivels to portrait mode, and a secondary monitor to serve as a backglass, but I usually don't keep them arranged that way. This tends to limit me from knowing the cutting-edge VPX stuff, and the cutting-edge FP stuff that it seems like you're referring to, above.

re: BAM,
When I said early that I didn't think many FP-users here ran BAM, that may well have been over-supposition on my part. I said that at the time because I think most of the FP tables uploaded here tend to be from authors like Mark1 and Tii, who don't require BAM in their tables AFAIK.

That said, I see no real problem with more BAM content being added. If users need a little help getting that stuff running, there shouldn't be a problem in terms of support, right? It's very simple from my experience, anyway.
 

TerryRed

Pinball Wizard
@TerryRed,

Thanks for your thoughts and clarifications.

I do need to reiterate that as a guy who doesn't know FP very well, and who has a load of other site-related work ahead of me, I'm probably going to remain a FP noobie for the foreseeable future. That means not really knowing what the terms above mean.

Even when I do some research on them, a few days later I'll typically have forgotten the meanings again, likely because I'm not hands-on enough to burn the terms in. I'm hoping this might change in time, but it is what it is for now. People here can think of me as an admin and early VP archivist for the time being. I'm here for site-related support and to answer a certain amount of VP questions.

I should add that I don't have a permanent cab setup either. I have a widescreen monitor that swivels to portrait mode, and a secondary monitor to serve as a backglass, but I usually don't keep them arranged that way. This tends to limit me from knowing the cutting-edge VPX stuff, and the cutting-edge FP stuff that it seems like you're referring to, above.

re: BAM,
When I said early that I didn't think many FP-users here ran BAM, that may well have been over-supposition on my part. I said that at the time because I think most of the FP tables uploaded here tend to be from authors like Mark1 and Tii, who don't require BAM in their tables AFAIK.

That said, I see no real problem with more BAM content being added. If users need a little help getting that stuff running, there shouldn't be a problem in terms of support, right? It's very simple from my experience, anyway.

Installing BAM for desktop is as easy as clicking on an installer. After that you can play the newest tables :)

Anyone can use ravarcade's 2 in 1 FP and BAM Installer... then update to the latest BAM afterward. Really easy.

Yes, not may users know about BAM's inner workings.... but Gimli, George, wild, myself and a few others are fairly knowledgeable. There's so much that FP can do now because of BAM. Gimli had some good tutorials at GoPinball.


Don't worry about knowing all the terms.... I include them all for those who know what they are. :)

DOF = Direct Output Framework. Software use to support hardware feedback and lighting in a cabinet
SSF = Surround Sound Feedback. Used for 3D positional and tactile feedback in a cabinet
PuP = Pinup Player. Used for a modern active video Backglass / Topper / DMD and more
PUPDMD = a modern display for scores, text and video...also part of Pinup Player
PuP Stream = using the BAM pup plugin to stream PuP windows into FP to be used to replace any texture.


While my updates tend to be cabinet related...not all of them are. RetroFlair BAM is an example. That table heavily uses BAM features for a modern update and lots of new game content and modes.
 
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