• We have added Language Translations for French, Italian and Spanish menus, you can change your language at the bottom of every page, bottom left in the footer.
  • Spanish (Español, Latin American) translations have been added for the Forums and Resource Manager (Downloads). You can change your Language Here!

Last unflippered pin

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
ohmwiz asked either here or in our user group, what the last pinball machine made without flippers was. After a bit of research to refresh my memory, I'm pretty sure Manhattan, made in Mach of 1948, was the last of the olden greats.

tiltjlp
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Just check out our Gallery, that's where you'll find it, and even older stuff, like a 1860s bagatelle parlor table, and a Baseball Pool Table from around the depression, or maybe a little earlier.

tiltjlp
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
What about bingo machines, they don't have flippers and some of those were made in the 70's.

Though I'm not up with all the techinical differences, I know Bingo is a gambling game, still no flippers though?
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
No, although I understand that there was at least one Bingo made with flippers. I think the thinking was that flippers gave most players too much contol over the ball. Besides, if you look at any bingo table, with all those holes for the ball to get caught in, flippers would be pretty useless.

When I was in high school in the early & mid 60s, a nearby tavern let me play their bingos, as long as I left before the men showed up after work. I won fairly often, but was paid off in soda pop and chips, or maybe a snadwich if I won enough.

tiltjlp
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
See here Bally Bonanza 1976!

Actually there is one from 1980!

Bally : Malibu Beach

I think Bonanza looks better.

Here is the link to all these and more bingo.

http://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/index.html

Never played or even seen one of these in the wild, though i love the concept and us Aussies will bet on anything. :twisted:

 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Actually I think they are still making these Bingo machines found another made in 2003!
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Not surprising

I'd think there would be a fair number of folks who don't gamble, but who would play a bingo pin machine. Just like a friend of mine considers his pre-set casino gambling loses the price of a night's entertainment, I would play a modern bingo for the fun first, and to wager second.

And Steve, are you adding these photot finds of yours to our Gallery?

tiltjlp
 

tudnut

Pinball Wizard
Technically, "Guys and Dolls" is flipperless...though it does provide control of the ball via those, um...bangers, or whatever you'd like to call them. (Seems to me I've run across other more recent flipperless tables on the ipdb also, but I don't remember what they were.)

By the way, don't hold it too much against me for reawakening this old thread. I was just looking through here and felt it somewhat embarrassing that, on Pinball Nirvana yet!, the last post (as of now) about flipperless games was by ME, Mr. Nudgeless, of all people...and that was almost a month ago!

As for bingos (and I know we've discussed some of this before in another thread), aren't they GORGEOUS??? (Hopelessly addictive, too!)

Yeah, they're flipperless...but nowadays (as opposed to way back when, when things were still up for grabs) the different machines have become classified one way or another. Bingos are not considered pins are not considered bagatelles are not considered pachinkos (admittedly you're sort of passing a camel through the eye of a needle trying to differentiate a bagatelle from a pachinko from a 30's pin, but heck, I didn't start it!) are not considered pitch and bats...etc. As such, yes, they are flipperless, but (by modern definition) they're not pinball machines. (Forgot to mention one-balls...still waiting for someone to rec at least one of those!)

Quick story: I was driving down to my (recently deceased) mom's house in Florida way back in the early 70's, even before I'd become addicted to pins myself (though it would happen shortly thereafter...perhaps because of this?), and stopped at a diner in Nashville to grab lunch. There was a machine against the wall, with a gentleman playing it...and it was one of the most amazing things I'd ever seen in my life (and I mean BOTH his playing, AND the machine, itself!) He kept pumping coins into the thing and making all of these strange adjustments to it, and its backflash kept responding with all kinds of esoteric hystrionics...all of which he responded to in kind! Try as I may (from my distant vantage point in the booth...I wasn't about to interfere!) I couldn't even BEGIN to grasp the gist of what all was going on through all the complexity...but it was FASCINATING!

Shortly thereafter my buddy the Goose and I discovered pins...but, try as I might, I never again saw anything to rival what I'd seen that guy play in that Nashville diner...until, years and years later via vp I suddenly realized he'd been playing a bingo! (On that bingo site that Steve and I both advocate they mention that by the early 70's there were only something like two states where they were still legal, Tennessee being one of them. When TN finally outlawed them in the early 80's, that was the end of the line...though I'm encouraged by Steve's having found one made recently!)

Sorry I bored you guys with that...just got weepily nostalgic for a moment!
 

tudnut

Pinball Wizard
Yeah, I don't know that there's anywhere in the States right now where bingos would be legal. (Though I'm kind of curious about regulated gambling joints: why wouldn't they be legal in Vegas, or the boats over here?
 

davidsss

Pinball Wizard
There were a few in the wild in Aus years ago but I haven't seen one since the mid 70s. I always found them perplexing as a kid, then I found out they were for gambling and it all made sense. I distinctly remember one which seemed to have no plunger, I think you put pressure on a spot on the front of the machine to make the ball plunge, very strange. I do remember putting coins in them for the hell of it and not understanding at all what I was trying to achieve!

DS
 

tudnut

Pinball Wizard
You mean, of course, that the side buttons control those moving posts (no real flippers involved)...I still like that word "bangers," though! lol!

And I'm surprised that we have to go through this again, since we've had this misunderstanding once before (somewhere or other). By "one-ball" machines, I'm referring to a specific kind of machine (like "bingo," "pitch-and-bat," "pinball," etc.), not just a machine that used one ball. They were also known as "horse race" games, in that (invariably?) that was always their "theme." I gave you one example before, here's another one:

http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2271

(Well, at least I hope it isn't the same one! Can't find that thread now! Sorry!)

In the 40's dozens (?) of these things were put out, obviously for gambling purposes. Bingos (and heck, probably even flippers!) came along as a response to their finally being shut down.

Pretty machines, too! But then...aren't they all?

P.S. Just took a closer look at the photos of this thing on the ipdb...those are NEW pics of an evidently working parlor! (Look at that "we card" warning they've got posted.) Where IS this place?
 

GHoSTFaCe

Pinball Wizard
According to the credit on the photo ("Coin-Op Antiques"), it's an antique store not a working parlor.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
No tudnit my esteemed friend, either you're talking in circles or I'm simply not understanding the point you're trying to make. One ball games actually refer to games that last for just one ball, not games that reuse one ball for the duration of a game. And yes, as you guessed correctly, nearly every true 1 ball game was for gambling, at least in the past. I believe that there might be new 1 ball games that are used for "gaming" which would be the awarding of redemption tickets or a prize of some some. But many 1 ball games were also used as trade stimulators in all sorts of businesses catering to men. An early example is Druadic's Log Cabin from 1903. For a penny, you played 1 ball for a chance at winning 1, 2, 3, or 10 cigars, with very few if any winners of the grand prize. These were actually gambling games, since the coin boxes made the games impossible to influence the path of the ball. And while there were six No Win slots and only 7 winning slots, most merchants probably gave losers a "cheap" smoke for good will.

Of course, the generous merchant was able to buy decnt quality cigars in bulk for a few cents a piece, and the "cheap" ones probably 3 for a penny. So while this apparent generousity cost next to nothing, I'm sure it added a good bit to sales over the course of a week. Something for nothing has always been a drawing card and still is today.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Yes tudnut, that was a typo, which I have since corrected. I'm familiar with Russ Jensen's work, and in fact, have his permission to reprint any of it here at PN. I never disputed what you had said about 1 ball horse racing games, I simply was trying to point out that 1 ball games were a lot more wide spread in scope than you have mentioned. If you want to read a really good article by Russ, check out his The Year That Almost Killed Pinball. I think I've featured it on our front page in the past, but I might just put it there again. And while everyone's focus is and should be pinball, the great thing about VP is that just about any kind of game can be made using the VP editor. I really do pity anyone who has such a narrow view of things that they ignore any kind of VP game.
 

tudnut

Pinball Wizard
Well, yeah, John, yet I'm surprised that (until now) you didn't seem to know what I was talking about. Russ himself (as well as the ipdb, and evidently the industry as a whole...though I guess that's debateable) was referring to a very specific kind of game as a "one-ball." (Maybe it would've been more appropriate to call them "one-ball, multi-coins!" lol)

(And you shouldn't have corrected that typo...now I'm the one that looks stark, raving mad! Of course...that's acceptable.)
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
tudnut said:
Well, yeah, John, yet I'm surprised that (until now) you didn't seem to know what I was talking about. Russ himself (as well as the ipdb, and evidently the industry as a whole...though I guess that's debateable) was referring to a very specific kind of game as a "one-ball." (Maybe it would've been more appropriate to call them "one-ball, multi-coins!" lol)

(And you shouldn't have corrected that typo...now I'm the one that looks stark, raving mad! Of course...that's acceptable.)
I knew all along what you were talking about, and everyone else for that matter. I just happen to feel that they have taken a much too narrow view of what a one ball is or should be considered. I simply feel that since VP can help us recreate almost any kind of game, we need to interpret things more braodly. And I put my typo back, since I'd never want you to look stark raving mad. :p
 

tudnut

Pinball Wizard
Here it is, over a month later...and I'm still waiting for a one-ball game.

(No, I can't do it myself; no, I'm not really expecting anyone to do it for me. Just thought I'd throw something in here again.)

It isn't a matter of them "taking a narrow view of what a one ball is" John. It's a matter of nomenclature. A "one ball" has been taken to mean a very particular, narrowly-niched kind of machine.

You can use the phrase for anything you wish, but in general parlance it's come to mean those horse-race games. VERY limited in scope, of course...but still, it would be nice to see at least one or two rec'ed.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
tudnut said:
Here it is, over a month later...and I'm still waiting for a one-ball game.

(No, I can't do it myself; no, I'm not really expecting anyone to do it for me. Just thought I'd throw something in here again.)

It isn't a matter of them "taking a narrow view of what a one ball is" John. It's a matter of nomenclature. A "one ball" has been taken to mean a very particular, narrowly-niched kind of machine.

You can use the phrase for anything you wish, but in general parlance it's come to mean those horse-race games. VERY limited in scope, of course...but still, it would be nice to see at least one or two rec'ed.
First a question. Since you insist that a 1 ball game "must" be a horse racing game, what would you call a 1 ball game that doesn't have a horse racing theme? There is a wonderful 1 ball payout game by Druadic called Bonanza, which does not have a horse raving theme, so what should we call it?

Secondly, I've yet to find good enough or flat enough images of a 1 ball horse racing game with rules and game play information. If you can supply me with an image and the information, I'll make it for you.
 

tudnut

Pinball Wizard
I don't recall ever using the word "must." I was just using the commonly-accepted parlance to explain my humble request.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
tudnut said:
I don't recall ever using the word "must." I was just using the commonly-accepted parlance to explain my humble request.
No, I used Must since you seem to share what I feel is a much to narrow defination of what a 1 ball game is. While there were a lot of 1 ball harse racing themed games made at one time, there are also a lot of standard pinball games made with horse racing themes. There are also a large number of 1 ball games made that don't have horse racing themes. While Russ is a friend, we don't always agree, and this is one of those times.

My offer still stands, if you can find me decent images and gameplay information on one of more 1 ball horse racing games I'll make it/them for you. I'm just weird enough to give almost any kind of table other than VPM a try at recreating.
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • @ Ike Savage:
    where is the unapprove option, anyway? is that a super mod thing or something from the admin panel?
    Quote
  • @ Ike Savage:
    oh wait, I see it
    Quote
  • @ JonPurpleHaze:
    true, but they could also be invisible to users and perhaps allow the category to be removed
    Quote
  • @ JonPurpleHaze:
    Don't know, do know that if you delete a category all files would also be removed so that's bad,
    Quote
  • @ Ike Savage:
    seems like we discussed it in some length at one point and came up with the current arrangement, but I don't have a strong opinion on that stuff. the one thing I do like is that I can clear out weaker tables from the main section without deleting them
    Quote
  • @ JonPurpleHaze:
    Sounds fine to me Ike, can't disagree with ya!
    Quote
  • @ Ike Savage:
    is it that you want to declutter more of the resources section?
    Quote
  • @ JonPurpleHaze:
    No it's fine
    Quote
  • @ Ike Savage:
    also, just to be clear-- the issue with "unapprove" is that you don't know if the table actually gets deleted from the server, right? AFAIK I have no way of seeing where the tables actually lie on the server, so it's something I can't test effectively
    Quote
  • @ JonPurpleHaze:
    They wouldn't get deleted from the server, I don't think.
    Quote
  • @ JonPurpleHaze:
    Can we get back to the subdomain folders/files, the uploads.pinballnirvana.com folder is where uploads would need to be, just wondering what might need to be deleted..
    Quote
  • @ Ike Savage:
    do you mind a phone call? probably easier to discuss, save some wear and tear on my hands, too
    Quote
  • @ JonPurpleHaze:
    No problems Ike, can't talk now but will try and set this up.
    Quote
  • @ Ike Savage:
    okay, well let me know if you need space cleared up across the torrent area, because I have some ideas
    Quote
  • @ JonPurpleHaze:
    Yeah, noticed a .zip file contains many versions etc..
    Quote
  • @ JonPurpleHaze:
    Uploading a 1.34 GB Pink Floyd The Wall zip file via ftp to test...
    Quote
  • @ JonPurpleHaze:
    The file is actually on the server in FP originals but isn't public.
    Quote
  • @ Anthias:
    Um, so, Hi!. What did I miss? (he says as though he ducked to the toilet while the adds were on...)
    Quote
  • @ AnonTet:
    Hi guys, I«m asking here as it might have a quicker response. How can I check the ball size used by authors in FP? or at least the default size if anyone knows. Thanks
    Quote
  • @ Gimli:
    Most FP authors use the default size and don't know how to use BAM to alter it.
    Quote
  • @ Gimli:
    I think it may be 13.8 though
    Quote
  • @ AnonTet:
    Thanks. But while I've waited I've looked at a ring around a ramp in LotR that's 26mm so i figure the ball being 24mm. A bit short of real life ball size if that's so.
    Quote
  • @ AnonTet:
    of course I could've used my brains earlier and create a table with some carefully spaced guides and check that the ball is in fact 27mm in diameter. Peeking at fp.exe and bam.dll and there's no way to change this. you can set the colour and the id to track it though (but that's known)
    Quote
  • @ Gimli:
    With Bam custom ball coding you can create balls of any size...see my titorial
    Quote
  • @ Gimli:
    +1
    Quote
    @ Gimli: https://pinballnirvana.com/forums/index.php?threads/bam-feature-how-to-guides.19601/post-120547 +1
    Top