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NitroNimbus MOD 2.0

NitroNimbus

Pinball Wizard
Hi All,
Wild sent me a PM as per below, I have been asked before what is MOD 2.0.
I also want to explain why I am posting so many tables and what FP is to me, cheers!

Nitro, sorry this question, don't hate me, but my curiosity is that it makes me ask you this:
since you are publishing a large number of tables with "mod2.0" ..... I want to point out, I am happy and happy, that you propagate Fp tables with BAM ..... believe me I am very very happy, it is GOOD for PN ... I say it with my heart..... but what is this "mod2.0" ,,, I mean what do you add? I to update my tables to BAM, it takes weeks or months, it depends what I want to add, but in this "mod2.0", what do you do and put?


Hi Wild,
Mate you can ask me anything you want it is not an issue. MOD 2.0 is just a reference for me knowing what version of the table I have released. MOD standing for a table modification (I don't want to take credit for those who created the table). Version 2.0 is the starting point then 2.1 and so forth if I update or revise a table. Sort of like the king of modding Slamt1lt does with VIP, ULTRA, ULTIMATE and then ULTIMATE Pro.
Every MOD 2.0 table at a minimum has Physics is in the script, Dynamic Flippers, Ambient Lighting, Shadow Maps, Dynamic Lighting, Ball Rolling Sounds, Flipper Textures , Ball Textures, DMD, upgraded sounds and music added/changed if needed. Then personal visual changes, tweaks and hours of testing.
The tables I tend to play more that don't already have it usual get movies, holograms, Animated DMD, playfield/plastics redraws, lighting, sound and music upgrades. Then there are the tables I have re-skinned like Pink Floyd, Grease, Harry Potter, Matrix, Fat Albert.

It is hard to say how much time I spend on each table because it is always different. I modded around 300 tables about 3-4 years ago so I am not starting from scratch.
A lot of the changes I have implemented in the past are basically useless now because of the excellent efforts of all those who keep FP alive and relevant.
I only work on FP in stints usually 10-16 hours at a time and am always very merry as I do enjoy a drink and a smoke. I own two companies that are basically self sufficient so I have plenty of time to drink too much.

So why am I posting so many tables.
I am doing the FP upgrades for my cabinet anyway.
Not everyone has the knowledge or the time to add BAM features to a table.
Picking through the sea of available FP tables is very time consuming and is a daunting task.
There are so many awesome recreation and original FP tables that get over looked or missed.
Some tables that are over 1-2 year old have terrible game play, physics and are or incomplete.
(This as always is a personal preference, but seriously some are so very bad it gives FP a bad name)
If one person enjoys my Mods or adds my version to there collection, it makes my day.

I can not and am not trying to compete with any table authors or modders.
I will only be submitting tables that have not been touched or updated for over a year.
If any table author/s do not want me to submit any of there tables please let me know.
If Pinball Nirvana is OK with it I will keep posting tables until I am burnt out, dead or finished.

FP is now the best pinball simulator there is thanks to Rav and BAM.
I do have have some VPX/VP9 and all FX2 and FX3 tables, but FP is the clear winner for me.
Hope this gives a better understanding of why I waste countless hours on FP and take the time to post
tables I could keep to myself. I have even tried to make them desktop friendly even though I only use a cabinet.
FP for many years now has been a somewhat thankless hobby even for the top of the food chain contributors.
If anyone is in this hobby for accolades I think it a good time to change hobbies.

All said and done!
This my personal opinion on the world of FP "not necessarily based on fact or knowledge".
I don't expect everyone to agree with me or like my contributions or comments.
But it is what it is, cheers!
 

wild

Bam is FP
Chat Moderator
I answered you privately, I hadn't noticed this.

I just wanted to know what you add to the tables about BAM , as a friend, that's all..... I didn't want to know your private stuff or who is or isn't the author of that table, or which table you are editing. I repeat I just wanted to know what you were adding,with this "MOD2.0", because I noticed that in your publications, there is no explanation of what it was.

I don't think this question of mine can create problems, I hope not.
 
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NitroNimbus

Pinball Wizard
Hi Wild,
Mate no problems at all, I thought your question was a valid one and I had no issue answering it.
Sorry I did get bit carried away with my reply but nothing I said is directed at you or anyone else.
I have been a mostly silent observer of the FP community for just over 7 years now and though it was my turn to share and dribble some shit.
But I do realise now I used your message as a spring board to have a personal rant and that is not cool!, it was certainly not my intention!
For that I do appoligise and I am very sorry, cheers!
 

wild

Bam is FP
Chat Moderator
No problem Nitro.... I am not angry or offended, in fact I thought the opposite, I thought I bothered you with my question, don't worry if you used the message as a springboard, I gave you permission to do it via pm, when I answered you.
about your "personal rant" , well, I can understand your point of view, I've been an observer for years too, but then I learned, but don't say that "to share and dribble some shit" a job is a job, it always goes appreciated.

friends more than before Nitro, one piece of advice smoking and drinking too much, it hurts:wink:
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
Hi Wild,
Mate no problems at all, I thought your question was a valid one and I had no issue answering it.
Sorry I did get bit carried away with my reply but nothing I said is directed at you or anyone else.
I have been a mostly silent observer of the FP community for just over 7 years now and though it was my turn to share and dribble some shit.
But I do realise now I used your message as a spring board to have a personal rant and that is not cool!, it was certainly not my intention!
For that I do appoligise and I am very sorry, cheers!
Keep ranting, please. :)

I enjoyed reading, and it was a nice little introduction. Feel free to copy that or add more to the thread below. Also, you might want to read up on us others here:

 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
Flying at the speed of molasses, I finally tried out one of your tables! It was Bounty Hunter, one which I don't think I've ever seen before.

I have some Q's, if you feel up to it:

- Is placing the BAM.dll in the BAM folder a way of making sure the table has the BAM version it needs in order to run? I have the latest BAM installed here, and didn't want to potentially regress my install, so I didn't actually replace the file.

- Oh boy, did I love the movie clips from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Talk about a huge atmosphere boost. oO Unfortunately, I'm only managing 30fps with this table. Is there an easy way to turn off the movie (and maybe even the DMD?) in order to see how much more fps I can gain? Any other tip like that to help gain speed?

- What's the purpose of the separate zip full of ball images? Do they need to be manually placed somewhere, or...?

Oi Nitro, thanks again for the MOD 2.0 project and sharing all your table makeovers! (are you SLAMT1LT's alias by chance?)

EDIT: Hokey smokes, I just fiddled with a setting or two and suddenly I was up to 60fps for a while there. I think it was by turning high quality textures and anisotropic filtering OFF. Altho now it seems to have dropped back to 30fps. Hmm...
 
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GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
Site Supporters
The separate zip full of ball images needs to remain zipped and saved with the same name as the table.

Your frame rate will probably improve if you turn New Renderer off. The best way to do it is to find this in the script:

Sub SetLightsParamsInBAM()

Then add a hard return to make a new line and add "Exit Sub" as I show below. Leave everything else. Then save changes.

Sub SetLightsParamsInBAM()
Exit Sub
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
Okay, there is already this in script:

Sub SetLightsParamsInBAM()
xBAM.Lights.EnableNewRenderer = TRUE
xBAM.Lights.MainLightLock = TRUE
' --- SetMainLightPosition not used because MainLightLock = FALSE
' xBAM.Lights.SetMainLightPosition 0, 650, 500
xBAM.Lights.SetMainLightProperties 1, 0.6, 0.75, 0.075
xBAM.Lights.SetMainLightAttenuation 1, 0, 0
xBAM.Lights.SetOtherLightsAttenuation 0.2, 0, 1
xBAM.Lights.EnablePostprocessing = FALSE
xBAM.Lights.SetPostprocessing 1, 0, 1, 1
xBAM.Lights.SetPostprocessingForNewRenderer 1, 0, 1, 1, 2.2, 1, 1, 1, 0.2
xBAM.Lights.BallReflection = 2
xBAM.Lights.BallShininess = 400
' xBAM.Lights.BallSpecular = 1
End Sub
SetLightsParamsInBAM()

xBAM.Lights.BallReflection = 2
xBAM.Lights.BallShininess = 400
xBAM.Lights.BallSpecular = 2
xBAM.Lights.BallBrightness = 1.1
What if I set that first TRUE to FALSE? Would that do the trick...?
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
Site Supporters
Changing that setting to false will turn New Renderer off but it will leave a bunch of other settings that won't apply. You won't be able to make changes to the lighting in BAM so it is better to exit the sub and not run it.

The best way is to add the exit sub as I show above on the second line. This will turn the entire sub off so it won't run. That way you can set up the FP Original settings in BAM as you wish.
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
Changing that setting to false will turn New Renderer off but it will leave a bunch of other settings that won't apply. You won't be able to make changes to the lighting in BAM so it is better to exit the sub and not run it.

The best way is to add the exit sub as I show above on the second line. This will turn the entire sub off so it won't run. That way you can set up the FP Original settings in BAM as you wish.
Alas, it made no fps difference. I even commented out all the lines in the original sub just in case, but there was again no effect.

One thing I did figure out is that the table indicates it's running at 60fps in view 2, which I have as my default. As soon as I switch to view 1, it halves to 30fps. Weirdly, changing back to view 2 still only gives me 30fps. Could this be a known FP-BAM issue?
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
The separate zip full of ball images needs to remain zipped and saved with the same name as the table.
I forgot to ask why they don't appear in the table itself. This is the only FP table I've ever seen where the balls sit outside the table.

Is it because it's easier to mass-update the balls across a bunch of tables by having them sit externally?
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
Site Supporters
I forgot to ask why they don't appear in the table itself. This is the only FP table I've ever seen where the balls sit outside the table.

Is it because it's easier to mass-update the balls across a bunch of tables by having them sit externally?
There is a way to save balls to the script but it takes more time. The only real advantage to adding custom balls to the script is to be able to swap balls at different points during a game. Adding a zip works if you want to use the same ball for the whole game and it is easy.
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
Site Supporters
Alas, it made no fps difference. I even commented out all the lines in the original sub just in case, but there was again no effect.

One thing I did figure out is that the table indicates it's running at 60fps in view 2, which I have as my default. As soon as I switch to view 1, it halves to 30fps. Weirdly, changing back to view 2 still only gives me 30fps. Could this be a known FP-BAM issue?
I had odd things like that happen with my old graphics card before I got the new one. I think a lot depends on your system. I don't think it is an issue with FP or BAM. Personally, I prefer the Full Table 2 view better than 1 so you're lucky.
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
@GeorgeH
Nah, I prefer full table 1 view, so I'm out of luck. The table's playable though, so on the whole, I'm happy.

Main thing is I'd still like to be able to turn off the movie and DMD to see how much extra fps I'd get. I guess I could fool around in the script to try to accomplish that, but I thought Nitro (or you?) might know.

...

I don't understand what you mean about the balls being stored "in the script." Far as I know, they'd normally be stored in the table file and only referenced in the script. Does that somehow cause a problem in this case...?
 
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NitroNimbus

Pinball Wizard
Hi Ike,

Mate try this one, I have turned off the DMD and Movie clips for you. I am not certain you will see much change in fps though.
The DMD I believe dosen't use much resources and the movie clips were put in the old fashion way using 850 individual jpg's.
Anyway hope this helps, cheers!
 

Attachments

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
Site Supporters
I think Ike was talking about "Bounty Hunter" but I am sure he will want to play GBU as well. It is easy to remove the video. See the attached. It just took deleting "ImageList2" from the image list manager and moving "Overlay2" above the backbox. It is not so easy to remove the DMD but I don't think removing it will help the fps much.
 

Attachments

NitroNimbus

Pinball Wizard
@GeorgeH
Thanks mate but I believe it was GBU he was having the issue with, cheers!

@Ike Savage
- Is placing the BAM.dll in the BAM folder a way of making sure the table has the BAM version it needs in order to run? I have the latest BAM installed here, and didn't want to potentially regress my install, so I didn't actually replace the file.
No only replace if your using an older version of BAM, I am not going to add this file anymore and just add the link to BAM so people always have the latest version. I am a bit slack and don't update my BAM unless needed.

- Oh boy, did I love the movie clips from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Talk about a huge atmosphere boost. oO Unfortunately, I'm only managing 30fps with this table. Is there an easy way to turn off the movie (and maybe even the DMD?) in order to see how much more fps I can gain? Any other tip like that to help gain speed? Thanks mate it is one of my favorite tables, I spent a lot of time learning doing that one.

- What's the purpose of the separate zip full of ball images? Do they need to be manually placed somewhere, or...?
@GeorgeH has covered most of this. The zip file is just a ball image I prefer to use rather than the standard ball. I believe SLAMT1LT made it.
BAM looks for the zip file and loads it automatically. The zip file must have the same name as the table and be in the same folder as the table.
If I load it the normal way through BAM like all others do it just dosen't look as shinny. But it is not needed in anyway, just added for looks.


Oi Nitro, thanks again for the MOD 2.0 project and sharing all your table makeovers! (are you SLAMT1LT's alias by chance?)
No worries mate I am enjoying the process. SLAMT1LT is the man and I am just a minion trying to get something close to what he does.
I am in no way as dedicated or talented but have learnt so much stealing oops! borrowing from him. :cool:
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
I think Ike was talking about "Bounty Hunter" but I am sure he will want to play GBU as well. It is easy to remove the video. See the attached. It just took deleting "ImageList2" from the image list manager and moving "Overlay2" above the backbox. It is not so easy to remove the DMD but I don't think removing it will help the fps much.
Finally tried it, thank you. Interestingly, those changes didn't seem to make any difference in fps count. Couple thoughts on that:

- All the extra movie sounds are still playing, so those may still be taking up some processing power.

- Even though you removed the image list item and moved the video screen out of the way, I'm wondering if the script is still running things related to those two out of sight, and therefore there's still a significant cycle hit.

- There's no DMD on the original machine, so it shouldn't really be there in the first place. But I'll have to take your word that the processor hit is light, regardless.

- I'm wondering if I'm totally barking up the wrong tree on all this, and its moreso something completely different that causes lower fps for me (aside from my video card). Something like polygon count and model complexity, perhaps. For example, are the OP's, Tri's and Physics numbers related to that?
 
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Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
@NitroNimbus,
GBU is really cool; thanks for that!

The ricochet sounds in particular are an amazingly good match for slingshot-ball reactions. For some reason I can't think of those being used much in prior Western-themed pinballs. Even professional ones.

I'm also getting 30fps for this one, too. Even cutting my video settings down to the bone, it doesn't look like that makes much difference. More evidence I guess that I'm looking at a physical object / model hit more than anything else.
 
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GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
Site Supporters
Finally tried it, thank you. Interestingly, those changes didn't seem to make any difference in fps count. Couple thoughts on that:

- All the extra movie sounds are still playing, so those may still be taking up some processing power.

- Even though you removed the image list item and moved the video screen out of the way, I'm wondering if the script is still running things related to those two out of sight, and therefore there's still a significant cycle hit.

- There's no DMD on the original machine, so it shouldn't really be there in the first place. But I'll have to take your word that the processor hit is light, regardless.

- I'm wondering if I'm totally barking up the wrong tree on all this, and its moreso something completely different that causes lower fps for me (aside from my video card). Something like polygon count and model complexity, perhaps. For example, are the OP's, Tri's and Physics numbers related to that?
I verified the textures are not loaded. The script only loads frames from the image list. With the image list gone, the table connot load the images. I am surprised it did not help. There are very few models on the table. The most complex are the bumpers. I don't have a clue why you have stuttering. It wouod seem that Ram is not a factor.
 

NitroNimbus

Pinball Wizard
Hi Ike,

I just had another look over both GBU and Bounty Hunter, I also can't find a logical reason for the low FPS.
Sorry mate, cheers!
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
I verified the textures are not loaded. The script only loads frames from the image list. With the image list gone, the table connot load the images. I am surprised it did not help. There are very few models on the table. The most complex are the bumpers. I don't have a clue why you have stuttering. It wouod seem that Ram is not a factor.
Hi Ike, I just had another look over both GBU and Bounty Hunter, I also can't find a logical reason for the low FPS. Sorry mate, cheers!
Okay, thanks for the help and clarification!

Just for reference, a new template table runs at 60fps for me, and the best I can usually get on a full table is about 45fps. Most tables seem to average closer to 30fps. That's a great framerate for getting a taste of a table, while leading to inevitable errors trying to play a game through. Ah well.

So it's not really a "Mod 2.0" issue at this point, but more of a 'figuring out what the various FPS costs of things are' issue for me. Based on your help so far, seems like I can mostly rule out the custom video displays and added songs and sound effects. That's good to know.
 

Gimli

Pinball Hall of Famer
Okay, thanks for the help and clarification!

Just for reference, a new template table runs at 60fps for me, and the best I can usually get on a full table is about 45fps. Most tables seem to average closer to 30fps. That's a great framerate for getting a taste of a table, while leading to inevitable errors trying to play a game through. Ah well.

So it's not really a "Mod 2.0" issue at this point, but more of a 'figuring out what the various FPS costs of things are' issue for me. Based on your help so far, seems like I can mostly rule out the custom video displays and added songs and sound effects. That's good to know.
Also you likely have already discussed this....but of course you will likely get the biggest boost if you turn off "new renderer" in BAM setting menu.
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
Also you likely have already discussed this....but of course you will likely get the biggest boost if you turn off "new renderer" in BAM setting menu.
Thanks, Bob! I think I accidentally discovered the BAM menu once, but checking the BAM manual just now, I understand that I can trigger it via ~ while in game. Okay, good.

I did try turning off New Renderer for lights and postprocesses on Jungle Girl, and the FPS actually dipped a little. But I'm sure I need to try it on more tables.

Also not sure how to get BAM to store my settings, or to forbid New Renderer globally for all tables. I tried saving to an XML, but that didn't seem to work. But this is a good start, hey...

EDIT: I think I need to look at George's GoPinball guide more closely, as I haven't yet tried making any video card settings.
 
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