Flipperless Rat Race (Willams, 1983) and other re-creations with BAM

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
@Gimli,
Millipede!? oO

Do you know if people have actually re-created video games in FP?

There were a few done in VP over the years. Mostly of a simpler nature, such as Breakout variations or Pacman mockups.
 

polygame

Inserted Coin
@polygame
Something like millipede would certainly test BAM's capabilities.
Ravarcade recently increased the limit of "Miniplayfield's: from 16 to 48. And also enabled temporary repurposing of already existing "Source boxes"

So with Milipede I imagine that each segment of the milipede would contain a collidable target and each would have its own "miniplayfield" box. Then you can code the boxes to move around the playfield and have the targets drop and disappear when hit.

It definitely doable
I really don't get what you say when you are talking about miniplayfield, I guess I'll get there at some point.
 

polygame

Inserted Coin
@Gimli,
Millipede!? oO

Do you know if people have actually re-created video games in FP?

There were a few done in VP over the years. Mostly of a simpler nature, such as Breakout variations or Pacman mockups.
I did Warlord (Warlock), Multipede (centipede), Astrohits (Asteroid), Tempexx (Tempest), TutenKham (Tutankham), Frogster (Frogger) and Cool Position (Pole Position).

They are all on pinsimdb. some of them are in this PDF (or my youtube playlist below). Might as well mention that Reel It in is based on Bass Fishing, World Tour on Dance dance Revolution and Jungle Boy on Jungle King, DarkQuest on Gauntlet Legends and Lunch takeout on BurgerTime.

Pinball Youtube Playlist
 

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Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
@polygame,
Took a look at a couple of those and they're beautiful! Wow!! oO :D

Just to clarify, I actually mean using either FP or VP to create straight-up video game versions of arcade games, i.e. not pinball-themed versions of arcade games.

You can see a few VP examples below, and yeah, it's a definite niche and not all that relevant in the age of MAME. Still kinda fun as a... proof-of-concept, I guess you could say:
https://pinballnirvana.com/forums/index.php?resources/categories/arcade-video-games.52/

Sonic's Enigma is mos def the most polished, impressive of the bunch.
 

Gimli

Pinball Hall of Famer
I really don't get what you say when you are talking about miniplayfield, I guess I'll get there at some point.

Hi Steve the term "miniplayfield" is confusing and unfortunate.
For BAM purposes that is what it is called.

But to understand what I am talking about think of a grab box ("bounding box")

1. You are allowed 48 of them.

2. With each "grab box" you can change its size and grab one or more objects that are in close proximity

3. You can grab objects either from the table itself or from the surrounding games room (all objects, kickers, lights, models whatever)

4. Ravarcade has call the BAM grabbable area the "SANDBOX" There actually are some areas in the larger games room that the sandbox does not work.

5. Now that you have grabbed something in the Grab box (In the BAM menu this is a yellow box, called the "Source Box"
you can now take what ever is grabbed and scale it, animate it , and move it and even make it disappear. In the BAM menu you will see
the results in a green "Target Box)

6. You can decide if the objects that you move will retain there physical properties and toggle those on /off in the script as desired

7. Once you have defined a "grab box" and its properties. BaM will automatically give you the code to paste into the script.

8. Once defined in the code then you can script any changes in any of the parameters from there. (Size, Location, Physical properties etc.. etc..)

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

So for Millipede insect lets say it has 12 segments to its body

You can grab the whole insect in one grab box or in 12 or whatever you want.
Depends on how you choose to animate it.

You can combine techniques. So for your cowboy in Shootanza for instance.... I can grab everything he is made of into one grab box.
I can then move him and make him huge but your preexisting code that animates him still works

I could also for instance grab his head in separate box from the rest of him ( 2 grab boxes)
Move both grab boxes to same place and make them the same scale and you code will still animate both head and box...but I can add
an addtional nodding of the head by coding the x,y,z rotation of the grab box containing the head.

It takes experiment but with your creativity it gives you immense possibilities.

There some exceptions and nuances that you discover as you go...

SLAMT1LT recently learned how and toyed with some very cool ideas. I will post some of his demo videos...



 
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Gimli

Pinball Hall of Famer
In terms of original question. We can have a "Target" or up to 48 targets moves around the play-field and have each generate collisions and hit events and toggle each to be non-collidable when desired

Two simple tables using this new tech are "Time Machine" and "Nip it" by Wild/Gimli
In Time Machine we have central area of all kinds of object that we raise up and down as a "miniplayfield" and have them retain their properties

In Nip- it we created "Zipper Flipppers" by having invisible flipper models that we toggle as collidable / non collidable.
Flippers are the only objects that you can't move around in a "grab box" but it is a new feature to toggle collidabilty. To make this work you still
have to grab each flipper in its own "grab box"
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters

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wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
You know I forget how this table first attracted your interest, but even though I've mentioned the game several times in my roundups, I'm not actually all that familiar with it. I'll have to try the VP version and see iif I can get a sense of the modes progression.

@Ike Savage
a question for you, could you confirm that the version of vp (using the rom of the real game) is very reliable as a version?

the rules explain the 6 game modes, and even if they are numbered
1. Life on the fast track
2. Sewer Swim
3. Street Smart
4.Score with the varsity
5. Even Rats have to work for a living
6. Be a Big Cheese.

I have been very busy with the construction of the table (which I have yet to finish), and I have not been able to test the most carefully edited version of vp, "but now extraordinary events denominate "reskin" a bad thing for me ", they are forcing me to slow down the construction of the table, and dedicate myself to understand how the table works.

I make a short quote .......I have already converted 6 vp / vpx tables to Fp/Bam, Wacky Races, Wrath of Olympus, Zaccaria-Farfalla, Zaccaria-Time-Machine, Charlie's Angels, and my favorite Batman (Data East).
So.... I know, that these vp / vpx rom based tables are very faithful to the real version, it is Rat-race, it is no exception

now as all the tables can have bugs, maybe the vp version of rat, it can have some, but certainly not the sequence of the modes, now the rules say that the first mode marked by number 1, is Life on the fast track .. ..but the VP version, Sewer Swim begins instead, but this is right, because if you see the video below it is like this.
In the video it is also noted that the 1, is Life on the fast track......it's the last mode, it must also be said that as the video shows, in 6 Be a Big Cheese, the ball can also pass in the middle of the circle, but strangely in the version of vp, it cannot, but this is not a problem.
the video also shows how in vp, that the game continues afterwards, that you have completed all the modes and I believe in a more difficult level, you can see it in 3. Street Smart

another question for those who would like this table...and you Ike, and I'd like your honest opinion
would you like this version of the table in FP, in the best possible way?
that is very faithful to the vp version, and as the video shows?
with all the right sounds, the lights done well, and that do their job when they have to do it?

because, I ask you all these things.... you will ask yourself right?

because I don't want to reskin, the demo that Gimli shows, I don't intend to make a reskin, of the table that I built,and that I still have to finish

I have to finish the construction of the table and I see a version of the table already made with the code, which I cannot test and verify if everything coincides with that of vp, or the video .... and I should do the reskn, of a table that I have built myself, taking many hours and days to make a model and more ..... well I await your judgment......IKE
to illuminate me, if I have to continue the construction or I have to abandon this project, because I see that Gimli is in a hurry to complete in his own way, and show the whole world.




 
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Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
@wild,
I don't know the VPM version all that well, but I'll let you know if I figure any of that stuff out!

Maybe something that adds confusion to this table is that the official game was only ever a prototype, with maybe ~10 units produced. So it's possible the rules and modes of the flyer don't actually match the real game behavior, based on the ROM.

Indeed, probably not the first time that's happened in this situation...
 

polygame

Inserted Coin
Here is the WIP BAM version still in its infancy. but demonstrating :
1. FAST TRACK (Notice the Main 40 second timer in the top DMD, the Fast Track Mode 15 second timer). You get a 10 second Time bonus every lap.
2. SEWER SWIM mode
3, Bonus Lanes
4.STREET SMARTS (I cheated during play by adding 40 seconds to the timer while you weren't looking :) )

This is super fun! concept could be use also for zeke's peak
 

polygame

Inserted Coin
Hi Steve the term "miniplayfield" is confusing and unfortunate.
For BAM purposes that is what it is called.

But to understand what I am talking about think of a grab box ("bounding box")

1. You are allowed 48 of them.

2. With each "grab box" you can change its size and grab one or more objects that are in close proximity

3. You can grab objects either from the table itself or from the surrounding games room (all objects, kickers, lights, models whatever)

4. Ravarcade has call the BAM grabbable area the "SANDBOX" There actually are some areas in the larger games room that the sandbox does not work.

5. Now that you have grabbed something in the Grab box (In the BAM menu this is a yellow box, called the "Source Box"
you can now take what ever is grabbed and scale it, animate it , and move it and even make it disappear. In the BAM menu you will see
the results in a green "Target Box)

6. You can decide if the objects that you move will retain there physical properties and toggle those on /off in the script as desired

7. Once you have defined a "grab box" and its properties. BaM will automatically give you the code to paste into the script.

8. Once defined in the code then you can script any changes in any of the parameters from there. (Size, Location, Physical properties etc.. etc..)

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

So for Millipede insect lets say it has 12 segments to its body

You can grab the whole insect in one grab box or in 12 or whatever you want.
Depends on how you choose to animate it.

You can combine techniques. So for your cowboy in Shootanza for instance.... I can grab everything he is made of into one grab box.
I can then move him and make him huge but your preexisting code that animates him still works

I could also for instance grab his head in separate box from the rest of him ( 2 grab boxes)
Move both grab boxes to same place and make them the same scale and you code will still animate both head and box...but I can add
an addtional nodding of the head by coding the x,y,z rotation of the grab box containing the head.

It takes experiment but with your creativity it gives you immense possibilities.

There some exceptions and nuances that you discover as you go...

SLAMT1LT recently learned how and toyed with some very cool ideas. I will post some of his demo videos...



I have too many questions to spoil this fine thread more than I already did. I will open a new one for these.
 

wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
This is super fun! concept could be use also for zeke's peak

Hey polygame...
I built the table, I, everything you see I built it, I spent many hours of work on this table,that otherwise I should finish and you don't even mention me?

I have too many questions to spoil this fine thread more than I already did. I will open a new one for these.

excellent solution, but talk about other tables not this one, because this is not finished yet, thanks
 
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polygame

Inserted Coin
Hey polygame...
I built the table, I, everything you see I built it, I spent many hours of work on this table,that otherwise I should finish and you don't even mention me?
What do you mean wild? I am not here to step on any toes so if I cause any grief in anything I said please just tell me nicely. You did a superb job so far with Mouse race, this I can say.
 

Gin

Pinball Nudger
Site Supporters
@Gimli @wild
So we can go with HUD displays GAS SEGMENTS or use DMD's (which aren't "authentic" for this table , but better)

So, having thought about this, I have made a quick 'Gas Segment' *.dmdf; just numbers (0-9) and the comma (,), that may be of use in a mini-playfield; especially as the Gas Segments can not (currently) be captured in a mini-playfield.

Please see the attached...
 

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wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
I'll explain it right away ....polygame
for first....I didn't say and thought ,these your words I am not here to step on any toes so
second......haven't you seen or read all my last post? the one where I explain many things, where we understand very well, that the project could a bad turn......and where did he also explain the reason?

and you what do? Do you reply the demonstration of Gimli? also with the video rat race livels 1-3, which for the moment I do not agree with, why is gimli going further, despite the fact that I have to finish the table?you make fun of me ?I do not like it, the teasing of others,

and put these comments as well......This is super fun! concept could be used also for zeke's peak

nothing to the contrary if you want to use this concept in another of the table, but using the video of gimli,and to advertise the video and you post it with all the work that I have done, and you don't even mention me, I am very disappointed, especially after I inserted the my last post
 

wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
So, having thought about this, I have made a quick 'Gas Segment' *.dmdf; just numbers (0-9) and the comma (,), that may be of use in a mini-playfield; especially as the Gas Segments can not (currently) be captured in a mini-playfield.

Gin, do you do it too?you all really want me to abandon the project ?

there is a serious discussion about the table, you have not read my last post

the construction of the table is not finished, but isn't this clear? give some material, who should I use it? or advertise the video, to help you in Bam ...... AND I, DO NOT COUNT? TO NO INTEREST THAT I STILL HAVE TO FINISH THE TABLE, THAT GIMLI IS MASTRONDO A FINISHED TABLE, BUT WHAT?
 
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Gin

Pinball Nudger
Site Supporters
@wild
Hi Paolo,
In my opinion, no-one wants you to abandon the table...
[ I think that the translation and context/intonation within the messages may be being misinterpreted and/or misunderstood..??? this is where I wish I could speak/type another language ;)]

I simply offered a DMD font for potential use - as there may be a need to use a DMD at the respective location (in a mini-playfield) on the table to show the current score - because BAM can not capture a Gas Segment display and rotate to the position(s) required.... that was all.
 

polygame

Inserted Coin
Is it possible please for anyone to make wild understand that I am maybe just not understanding the way he speaks?
If there is one person that always double check what I say it's me. I work in HR :). I don't see any way I could have made fun of him.
 

polygame

Inserted Coin
I'll explain it right away ....polygame
for first....I didn't say and thought ,these your words I am not here to step on any toes so
second......haven't you seen or read all my last post? the one where I explain many things, where we understand very well, that the project could a bad turn......and where did he also explain the reason?

and you what do? Do you reply the demonstration of Gimli? also with the video rat race livels 1-3, which for the moment I do not agree with, why is gimli going further, despite the fact that I have to finish the table?you make fun of me ?I do not like it, the teasing of others,

and put these comments as well......This is super fun! concept could be used also for zeke's peak

nothing to the contrary if you want to use this concept in another of the table, but using the video of gimli,and to advertise the video and you post it with all the work that I have done, and you don't even mention me, I am very disappointed, especially after I inserted the my last post

Ok let's talk in baby steps since we obviously cannot understand each other. Language barrier is sometime difficult in human interaction, let's not forget that.

1. Never in any post I made fun of you. (I reread the whole thread)
2. I was even praising the concept and just noted that It made me thought about Zeke's peak behavior.
3. I don't wish to use the concept or steal any part of it or any advertising video about it. I am old and civil enough to ask permission for anything I do. So please I am asking you to acknowledge that I do.
4. Following my introduction, you seem to have a tone regarding my arrival here so if this is what's to be expected in the future, I will try to stear clear from anything you do, post or say, if it's ok with you.

I am therefore wishing you a very nice day, wherever you are on this planet. :)
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
You know, all the best thinkers, artists and most passionate people across history argued their arses off. That's part of the very GAME, man!

Yo Paulo, what's that old saying about a Sicilian walking through the Underworld, or however that goes?

As a native-born Peruvian who grew up in Bruxelles, don't TEST me upon this stuff, eh? Eh?! :)
 
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wild

No Bam no Play
Chat Moderator
Is it possible please for anyone to make wild understand that I am maybe just not understanding the way he speaks?
If there is one person that always double check what I say it's me. I work in HR :). I don't see any way I could have made fun of him.

you don't need anyone to make me understand, you learn to put commas instead, where you need to put them

I entered this

because, I ask you all these things.... you will ask yourself right?

because I don't want to reskin, the demo that Gimli shows, I don't intend to make a reskin, of the table that I built,and that I still have to finish

I have to finish the construction of the table and I see a version of the table already made with the code, which I cannot test and verify if everything coincides with that of vp, or the video .... and I should do the reskn, of a table that I have built myself, taking many hours and days to make a model and more ..... well I await your judgment......IKE

to illuminate me, if I have to continue the construction or I have to abandon this project, because I see that Gimli is in a hurry to complete in his own way, and show the whole world.


before you replicate this with the video of gimli

This is super fun! concept could be use also for zeke's peak

I expressed my opinion of this video in my post above in red, and you replicate it ..... how should I interpret this?


Ok let's talk in baby steps since we obviously cannot understand each other. Language barrier is sometime difficult in human interaction, let's not forget that.

1. Never in any post I made fun of you. (I reread the whole thread)
2. I was even praising the concept and just noted that It made me thought about Zeke's peak behavior.
3. I don't wish to use the concept or steal any part of it or any advertising video about it. I am old and civil enough to ask permission for anything I do. So please I am asking you to acknowledge that I do.
4. Following my introduction, you seem to have a tone regarding my arrival here so if this is what's to be expected in the future, I will try to stear clear from anything you do, post or say, if it's ok with you.

I am therefore wishing you a very nice day, wherever you are on this planet. :)

1)with your ripley to gimli , for me yes
2)not exactly, you praised the video of gimli, not my work.
3)what should i admit?for me you can use it, the concept allows it Bam ... it's Bam belongs to everyone,
4)are you sure what you say? am I not having language problems......maybe you?what makes you think i have something with you?after your introduction do you say ??

I am therefore wishing you a very nice day, wherever you are on this planet.

this your sentence in red, I do not like, even a little

I am not of this planet, but of Mars,if you want to know
.......keeps teasing me right?
 
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