Help Resolved: Struggling with BAM Crashing on Jaws Pinevent and others

scampa123

Pinball Nudger
I have been struggling with BAM crashes on various Pinevent and even DOF tables lately. (Things work fine for VPX and FX3)..

I thought it was due to Antivirus, however I believe I may have excluded everything (and then some) and it still crashes. I'm hoping there is a way to get a better view of what is going on.

My rig: Ryzen 7, 16gb ram, RTX2060 card...so pretty beefy.
I've updated my Video drivers. Audio drivers seem up to date.
Motherboard seems like there are bios updates, however manufacturer recommends against updating.

Running in debug mode I noticed it got to leading Pup Pack and then freezes and dies.

I've attached the crash file. I was hoping this would shed some light on the problem. Maybe there is a custom FPLoader.exe which could output more of a stack trace or something??

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

@TerryRed @GeorgeH
 

Attachments

  • BAM_CRASH.txt
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Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
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@JonPurpleHaze,
This post made me realise that we don't have a FP / BAM 'first aid' station set up the same way we do for the VP side. Maybe a solution could involve simply redefining one of the existing FP subforums to add a help component. For example, with VP, there's "VP/VPM General Information and First Aid Station," combining two concepts.

When and if that's set up, and at the risk of adding another note, I'd almost want to include a notice when a member starts a new thread to suggest tagging people like Terry or George. (with their permission)

@scampa123,
You might indeed try that, as otherwise they might not see this thread.
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
Thank you Ike, I know who Terry is, but who is George to tag him?

Thank you
He's a table author, guide-maker and general FP authority, although come to think of it, I'm not actually sure he handles this stuff specifically.


Anyway, you "tag" someone by doing the 'ampersand thing' I did with you and Jon, above. After you type the ampersand, the system should start to fetch the name based on the characters you type next.
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
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I don't know much about pinevent or DOFLinx. It is more in TerryRed's area. I can say that adding exclusions to the Windows Defender won't help. Exclusions only affect the scanner and most folks don't scan files when playing pinball. The culprit is usually the real time protection which are not affected by exclusions.

TerryRed will probably tell you to stop using Windows Defender. I did however get Microsoft to fix 2 false positives for the DOFLinx.vbs file. You might check that your definition files are up to date.
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
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I think Terry answered the question here:


This might help you with DOFLinx:

 

scampa123

Pinball Nudger
Thanks @GeorgeH , yes Terry has been trying to help me on the other forums and actually pointed me here for additional "eyes"..

I did take his suggestions, I even purchased Malwarebytes, but decided to uninstall it since it seemed as though things got a little worse (maybe I'm not running the version or settings he is).

I am hoping to get some other ideas, although tonight I think I may wipe FP and start again to see if it helps. I simply cannot believe that my gear will not support these tables. I wish the debug mode could dump more info as to what its trying to do in hopes it would shed more light on where the issue is.

I may try the Zed version too to see if it might help (not sure but can't hurt I guess).

Thanks again
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
Site Supporters
Are you sure the problem is the antivirus? Try disabling it temporarily to see what happens. I haveMalwarebytes and it has no effect on FP/BAM on my PC. I use it and Windows Defender.
 
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scampa123

Pinball Nudger
No, I'm not sure about anything at this point! That was just one area I was looking at.....as well as drivers, blocked files, locked files etc....

I'm looking for new ideas and things to try to rule things out...
 

scampa123

Pinball Nudger
I have flipped the switch to off for real-time but it doesn't seem to help. It eventually is switched back on. Regardless, the issue is still there.

I plan to work on it more tonight after work. Hopefully I get a bit further along...
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
...I'm looking for new ideas and things to try to rule things out...
I guess this is kind of an apples n' oranges thing, but I worked up a small guide recently, and decided to post it now in the chance it might possibly help out:

 
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JonPurpleHaze

Site Nudger
Staff member
@JonPurpleHaze,
This post made me realise that we don't have a FP / BAM 'first aid' station set up the same way we do for the VP side. Maybe a solution could involve simply redefining one of the existing FP subforums to add a help component. For example, with VP, there's "VP/VPM General Information and First Aid Station," combining two concepts.

When and if that's set up, and at the risk of adding another note, I'd almost want to include a notice when a member starts a new thread to suggest tagging people like Terry or George. (with their permission)

@scampa123,
You might indeed try that, as otherwise they might not see this thread.
I think this is a very good idea to have a first aid section for FP/Bam, it was originally set up via suggestions from Users and I really don't know how it should look, VP/VPM General Information and First Aid is actually a separate category with sub forums.

Perhaps a FP/Bam General Information and First Aid category should be created with sub forums? There would be a few different reasons why this might be the best way, latest posts, stickies, notices, etc. Would need suggestions for proposed sub forums.
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
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I have flipped the switch to off for real-time but it doesn't seem to help. It eventually is switched back on. Regardless, the issue is still there.

I plan to work on it more tonight after work. Hopefully I get a bit further along...

I can't help much now that the antivirus is ruled out. I don't have pinevent or DOFLinx installed. About all I can suggest is disabling pinevent and DOFLinx separately in order to identify which is causing the problem.
 

Ike Savage

Froggy like robot
Staff member
Site Supporters
I think this is a very good idea to have a first aid section for FP/Bam, it was originally set up via suggestions from Users and I really don't know how it should look, VP/VPM General Information and First Aid is actually a separate category with sub forums.

Perhaps a FP/Bam General Information and First Aid category should be created with sub forums? There would be a few different reasons why this might be the best way, latest posts, stickies, notices, etc. Would need suggestions for proposed sub forums.
Hmm... I'm almost thinking that FP's "Tutorials and Guides" could be expanded to "Tutorials, Guides and Help," and then one more subforum called "First Aid Station" could be added under it.

And yeah, I know that VP has a whole separate forum for help and support (as mentioned), but with traffic being fairly modest for a while now, I don't see a big need for more top-level forum sections being created. If anything, I think there are already a number of subforums that really need to be retired, archived, or merged. I recall making some specific suggestions like that in the past, most likely in the mod section.


Since this is my week to rant :)-- I'm not even sure why we even have a cab forums at this point. It's huge, nearly empty, and just looks like dead weight. Not one of those "if you build it, they will come" things, either. VPF is pretty much the scene's cab forums, and I feel like I'd rather people go there for that kind of thing. Unless I'm missing something, of course...
 
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scampa123

Pinball Nudger
I figured out the problem...I'm just not sure I understand the "why" fully..

The problem I was having was specifically with PUP Stream. At first I had to turn it off completely and things started working. I then thought about a line in @TerryRed s guide on PinEvent where he says the monitors need to be plugged into a card and not the motherboard...Well my LCD DMD is a USB screen...It's not plugged into a motherboard GPU or a graphics card...

So I disabled just the FULLDMD PUP Stream setting in my VBS and left PUP Stream on for everything else....and it works! I played a bunch of tables....I feel very happy about it! ;)

I'd love to understand why PUP Stream cannot send a stream to a monitor plugged into the motherboard or (clearly) a USB monitor...Maybe Terry can explain what is happening behind the scenes...

I noticed another issue with DOFLinx (I send events to DOFLinx to disable/enable per Terry's guide for these tables. I'll look for the correct place to put that though!
 

TerryRed

Pinball Hall of Famer
It's down to how the capture method of the BAM pup plug-in works. It needs more direct access to the frame buffer capture of the video card.... and Windows is very picky with how it works.

This is using a very fast method which allows it to work very well, but it needs to be very specific for it to work correctly.

Mixing multiple video cards / gpus tend to create these problems in general.

"USB" video cards tend to be the worst for these kind of problems, which is why I stay away from them.

This is not uncommon. When I use OBS to capture streams using nvidia encoder..... that will only work with displays connected to the nvidia card... not the motherboard, etc.


This is why I had PUP Stream DISABLED for all FP modes in PinEvent_Settings.vbs, and why I made it very clear to NOT enable PUP Stream at all until you have "everything" working correctly. If after that you enable PUP Stream and you have any problems... then keep it disabled unless you can have the proper setup / connections / etc required for it to work.
 

scampa123

Pinball Nudger
Thank you Terry! I guess the only way to have all of PUPStream working in my cabinet would be to have a different DMD and to have all screens plugged directly into my RTX2060. I have four screens, so that won't be able to happen. I feel better having most of the PUP Stream stuff turned on except for the FULLDMD vs turning it off completely. I just want to be able to experience everything it can do!!
 

TerryRed

Pinball Hall of Famer
Thank you Terry! I guess the only way to have all of PUPStream working in my cabinet would be to have a different DMD and to have all screens plugged directly into my RTX2060. I have four screens, so that won't be able to happen. I feel better having most of the PUP Stream stuff turned on except for the FULLDMD vs turning it off completely. I just want to be able to experience everything it can do!!

The FullDMD is really the only one you would want enabled for PUP Stream (with the exception of Jaws if you prefer the BG videos), as the FullDMD is where all the score/text and videos are displayed. The Backglass doesn't really change except for Jaws.

I have 4 displays and they are all connected to my GTX 1080.
 
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