The latest news from the VP world......

[Itchigo]

http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/507-to-paul-noah-owner-and-operator-of-vpforumscom/#entry3727

 

[Shockman]

This is not news. This is the behavior that was so staunchly supported, and is supported until one by one it hits home.

 

[Shockman]

Believe it or not, these are quotes from Paul, The admin. of vpforums.org

- It's simply inappropriate to take without the original authors' permission.

- How hard is it to ask, anyway?!

- Regardless who owns the IP, it's the labor of love invested that makes it offensive to see it used without permission.

My tables are there without permission. I have asked for them to taken down from there. Some I did not even upload myself. The Phantom of the Opera for example was stolen by destruk, uploaded to vpforums.org, and that action supported by the Admin., Paul, Noah'.

 

[Shockman]

If someone with access to VPforums would download POTO, (the Phantom of the Opera v1.5.0) and the VP9 version of mr. mrs . Pacman (Mr. & Mrs. PAC-MAN bb9.0) and put it up here with this given permission, it would be appreciated, as those files, needing of some improvements, are the two I lost in the accident.

 

[yogiholzer]

Check pm!

 

[sleepy]

Can't be cracking on people for having their own download site.
That goes against the community rules that we've embraced since the beginning.

But, the making up of issues over stealing things and then doing it yourself to someone else is soo much a part of the industry anyhow...where's my money?

 

[yogiholzer]

?

What do you mean?

Did I do any wrong?

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

i'm cool with paul because i understood his model within the first couple whiles, gave him bloody hell over it at the time, then shrugged it off and made the best of it. i had no illusions to dispel from that point on, which is why i drop over there whenever i want and say whatever i feel like and upload whatever i want.

nyah, nyah, nyah...! :D

 

[Shockman]

I think you were his model.

 

[sleepy]

I don't think you're in trouble at all yogi. All is good.

And Ike, are you saying there's more than meets the eye going on?
Or are you being appropriately facetious?

 

[bob]

It is what it is. Anyone can open a site and then they can make the rules. I wish there were about 20 active VP sites. :)

 

[Shockman]

Yes they can. And they can be judged on the rules that they set up, and on how they follow their own rules, on morals, and ethics, and on whether they are true stewards.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

bob said it. you can be a willfull moron as usual, shockman, or you can entertain the power of recognition and adaptation.

but since the very stubborn areas of your mind typically overwhelm your smarter sensibilities, i expect you to be a fucking idiot once again and earn everyone the smart money in the betting pools.

that better? :)

 

[Shockman]

You defend someone for taking my table and uploading it to another site, without permission, restricting access to it, and not taking it down when asked??? since when? since now? Someone that is also against this unless it is him doing it. Are you supporting what the admin of vpforums.org is posting, or what he is doing??? If you can't see the difference then you are supporting the man, not any ideals.

 

[bob]

Phil, create your own site, make your own rules, then try to make yourself happy.... Good luck with that. I think most of us here would be disappointed if you ever changed, you are like an old war injury that aches when the weather changes, it tingles just enough for us to remember the good old days.

Accepting what a site is or understanding how a person runs his site doesn't mean you support him or the site, it just means you are interested in the product.

You will never find better admins than The Loafer, Nic or TMFP. Those guys were impressive and I have a lot of respect for them. The old VPF had 200,000 members when it disappeared and those guys ran a fun place without any help from the site owner AJ.

The good old days....

 

[faralos]

oh yeah the older vpf had tons of un pc posts on it
and that site rocked! for the little time I got to enjoy it anyhow!
but it's dead and gone now and we all must suffer the consequences
the newer site is a great site as long as you stay quiet on certain subjects
nothing too political or x rated
(the bombings in Boston post I was shocked they let it run
and didn't take it down since it is WAY political)
but as for stuff to download it is coming along
the politics there are way too personal for me
(who hates who, who got banned, etc...)
so I just post blindly away like nothings happened
get my download stuff and sign out
the posts are slanting toward cab use anyways
and I get bored when reading about cabs
so the more sites out here the better for all of us
since here and other sites the subjects range from everything
from cabs to how restore older pins to crap going on in todays world
to who ate what for supper last night!
Vpf has all that too but again with all those cab posts I gotta wade through them
to find stuff I like to read up on!
So with four sites now I can hop about reading up on all sorts of neat goodies
I don't count the pinball storage sites as active cause I don't post there
so it's vpf, here, Rogue and the vp universe
as for more that is up to you guys to make them
but as for me I am happy with these four for now

 

[Shockman]

@ bob cc ike'

My own site? Why would I do that? What is your point? I don't want site, and as for rules I don't care what the rules are at any of the sites. This is not about a site or rules. Sites are good and rules are good.

It's about peoples word and peoples ideals and ethics. You and '.b might not be able to understand what is going on, but I'm not the only one that can. I did not start this thread, and everything I posted in this thread contributed in kind to the theme of the thread.

If I ever do change to that degree, I would be disappointed enough in myself, thank you.

I disagree what support is. Regardless of interest in the content, to involve yourself in a thread about this with contradiction to the facts is support and not of the product. You are smart enough to know this to be so. If it was content then there would be no need. You have your content.

If something does not interest me, or pertain to me, I do not post.

 

[Noah Fentz]

Hi Phil,

I did take down PotO once, but I just 'unapproved' it to make it invisible, figuring you'd be back. If you hadn't continued the onslaught of insults, you would be.

Which version of Mr. & Mrs. Pacman are you referring to? I'm not getting it in search results. If you can link me, I'll take it down. Also, if you have concerns about things of this nature, feel free to email me. You don't have to go around me.

As for the OP. Just like a little girl who heard a rumor, there's absolutely no verification of facts, just rumor-spreading. Way to go!

Wildman was honest about one thing, though ... we spoke on the phone.

 

[Dazz]

Hi Phil,

I did take down PotO once, but I just 'unapproved' it to make it invisible, figuring you'd be back. If you hadn't continued the onslaught of insults, you would be.

Which version of Mr. & Mrs. Pacman are you referring to? I'm not getting it in search results. If you can link me, I'll take it down. Also, if you have concerns about things of this nature, feel free to email me. You don't have to go around me.

As for the OP. Just like a little girl who heard a rumor, there's absolutely no verification of facts, just rumor-spreading. Way to go!

Wildman was honest about one thing, though ... we spoke on the phone.

Lol, still playing your games, eh?

There was about 6 of us in chat while Wildman spoke to you on the phone via speaker. We heard most of the conversation between you two... You'd make one hell of a politician, but a very very poor community leader. You have blown soooo much smoke up your users asses it's very sad. You continue to take advantage of your community and continually use and abuse them. Many of them are still blind to your antics, but many are starting to see the light of day.

 

[bob]

@ bob cc ike'

My own site? Why would I do that? What is your point? I don't want site, and as for rules I don't care what the rules are at any of the sites. This is not about a site or rules. Sites are good and rules are good.

It's about peoples word and peoples ideals and ethics. You and '.b might not be able to understand what is going on, but I'm not the only one that can. I did not start this thread, and everything I posted in this thread contributed in kind to the theme of the thread.

If I ever do change to that degree, I would be disappointed enough in myself, thank you.

I disagree what support is. Regardless of interest in the content, to involve yourself in a thread about this with contradiction to the facts is support and not of the product. You are smart enough to know this to be so. If it was content then there would be no need. You have your content.

If something does not interest me, or pertain to me, I do not post.

It's all good Phil, we understand everything you post, but we like to bang our heads into the wall when you never understand anything we post. It's Paul's site and he can do whatever he wants with it. That's the part you never seem to understand, it doesn't matter if the person running a site is right or wrong, they get to do what they want because it is their site, this isn't a democracy, we get no votes, we can only make suggestions or bitch about stuff, but you have no power to change anything unless you start a site and run it. It is what it is, you either accept it or move on.

 

[Shockman]

I read and understand your points. I just think they are dead wrong. He can make rules and he is certainly entitled to have his site and focus it on any thing or any part of a thing that he wishes. He can also upload tables to his site that others have put together without their permission, but that is what I am on about, not that he lives, not that he has his own site, not that the site has limited scope imo or anything else.

I e-mailed Noah' twice in the last week or so and I also e-mailed destruk twice in the same time same as he was the one that actually uploaded my work there. Paul nor Brian acknowledged them and they all 4 were sent before the issue of this thread even surfaced. the last one was a 2 days eariler, and I was going to wait another day or two, then this issue of stealing from him came up and any reasonable person should understand that it was the perfect time.

Here is the entire e-mail every word with no edits.

You still have one of my tables up with a tag that it was submitted by destruk. Phantom of the Opera. 3 versions of mmpac is up as well.

You had promised to take those down. Regardless of that fact, that is not what this is about. I lost my hard drive that had those files and subsequent work on them as well.

Regardless of the fact that you told me almost a year ago that the ban was for another 6 months, it is not right that you have these files on your site, not all of which I put there myself, and I can not even download them. Not to mention the fact that you said you had taken them down..

Now I really don't care where my files are, and certainly who has access to them, and I really don't care that you are not a man of your word, but I would think you would.

There is a number of ways that we could settle this that would make me happy and should not make you a bit unhappy, such as giving me access to this, which is my work that you have on your site that I did not put there. Another would be for you to upload all 3 of the Mr.& Mrs PAC-MAN, and the Phantom of the Opera .vpt files to Pinball Nirvana or to e-mail them to me. Another that would not make me happy, though righteous, if the only option you would accept, would be for you to remove them from your web site.

The last would be for you to continue to ignore this issue and the only one that would make me unhappy. I don't know if you have blocked any e-mail receipt from me, but in case you have not I am limiting this issue to private e-mail for now. If I don't get a response I will post it publicly at PN where I have no doubt it will come to your attention.

I have thought about it a lot, and I don't see any reason why he would want my tables there anyway. I can not fix them and they are in need of fixing, but even if they didn't they could not be updated either. Some of you know that I am not a table maker by any score. It literally took me hundreds of hours to get mmpac to where it is. I updated and uploaded it to VPF.com so often that it irked some people.

Paul. As I said. I don't care where my work turns up. Even your site. But you can not have an exclusive on my work. And the way you acquired it in the first place, other than the early non mame version I uploaded and the attempt at a VP9 port that needed (and had) improvements on the lost drive, and re-posted after a time after your promise to remove them prohibits any accusations in my perhaps fatally unwavering opinion. I have a VP<9 VPM version, a VP<9 VP version, and a VP9 version up at your site. The VP9 version is the only exclusive, and I have aquired a copy of that in the last couple of days along with the POTO, a dated but unique at least at the time approach to table building which is also an exclusive at your site. But the issue is not that they are exclusive to your site, but exclusive of the builder. You gave me 6 months to re-membership last we talked, I gave you 9 without saying a word. I did not even e-mail you till last week, but the 9 I mention was the bump of your 'mission statement' as I call it.

 

[Itchigo]

I wish there were about 20 active VP sites. :)

Me too Bob, me too. Bob's right, in the end the Admin has all the power. But as an Admin, I'm even more conscious of how I act. Just because I am one.

I don't know enough about the tables to make an intelligent statement about that.

 

[Osprey101]

I believe this threads original purpose was to let people know about the issue with Wildman and Noah.
In regards to that, I want to know who is claiming their work was used by Wildman, and what proof do you have?
There are a ton of us that have watched Wildman spend hours upon hours, working on the stuff he has been releasing on VPU. Many of us have helped gather images, test and proof his work.
If you think you have proof he "stole" your work, PROVE IT.

I am also very disturbed that Noah would ban him for not uploading his work to VPF, or at the very least, ban him based on unfounded claims. What the hell is that all about?
I would ask these questions on VPF but, we all know what would happen; post deleted, Osprey101 banned.

This is a crock of shit and I call for proof of claims.

 

[Itchigo]

That's correct Osprey, I put this up to inform. I tried to be objective when I did so. I also put it up at Rogue, so more people would see it. If you try to put it up at ***, it may last until you hit send. (Not sure).

 

[Shockman]

With just a link and no editorial, your objectivity was absolute. I would have stumbled across it and made my first post there anyway, but it is good for everyone to get the other side of the story at vpforums.org and to understand that there was two sides to all the stories, and that only comes without. Anyone can post anywhere else including here in support of VPF.org and the blatant double standards but you will not read about it there, not even the support that suggests it is righteous because it is his site, so bob and nick should appreciate it too.