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VIP Cancelled

Phoenixx

Starfleet Member
Site Supporters
The VIP is dead.

Please remove it from PinballNirvava as i dont want it to be distributed anymore.


Thank You,
Phoenixx
 

elton

Pinball Wizard
Tis a sad day I think. Sorry Phoenixx, but please reconsider?

I understand your frustration but still believe it helped more people than it didn't.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Phoenixx said:
The VIP is dead.

Please remove it from PinballNirvava as i dont want it to be distributed anymore.


Thank You,
Phoenixx
If you kill the VIP the jerks will have won, but all the folks who use the VIP will lose.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
destruk said:
Well, or they could win by learning how to read directions.
True, but from personal experience, being able to read directions isn't always enough when you have zero technical know-how. When I first installed VPM, it was a painful and strange two weeks filled with confusion.
 

elton

Pinball Wizard
Agree John. It was hell, if I remember that far back, and without the help of some rather kind internet users eg Brutus (Bluto) I would have probably given up!

That sort of shows my level of technical know how!.
 

destruk

Pinball Wizard
Site Supporters
Yes, expecting people to learn anything is too much to ask in today's world. The download/click and go is the way it is, and if it doesn't work, download something else. It's regretful that Phoenix is taking this option away.

And it's not just VP - it's everywhere. You have people chewing out and screaming at Electronic Arts because they need their hand held to get it to work on an unsupported OS, you have warez kiddies asking for cracks on company websites because they have no clue how to do it themselves, and people can't even get online without help anymore.
 

elton

Pinball Wizard
Agree Destruk. But not everyone has the same knowledge.

It's okay to say that people do not want to learn - but where do you start? If you came across MAME in isolation it's a bloody strange world to be sure. Okay if you have a brief understanding of the subject matter, but if not, you're stuck. I came to VP from searching for XP fixes for ProPinball and boy was it a strange world or not.

I am (was) not particularly technically gifted and I found the whole process to be a right bugger and would have given up if it wasn't for Brutus who provided help. That was in the days when Havvoc was an active site together with Parkers Pinball and canista et al.

So it's not a clear cut as you might suggest.
 

Joe

Pinball Player
elton said:
Agree Destruk. But not everyone has the same knowledge.

It's okay to say that people do not want to learn - but where do you start? If you came across MAME in isolation it's a bloody strange world to be sure. Okay if you have a brief understanding of the subject matter, but if not, you're stuck. I came to VP from searching for XP fixes for ProPinball and boy was it a strange world or not.

I am (was) not particularly technically gifted and I found the whole process to be a right bugger and would have given up if it wasn't for Brutus who provided help. That was in the days when Havvoc was an active site together with Parkers Pinball and canista et al.

So it's not a clear cut as you might suggest.
mame is easier to install then vpinmame + vp is. But vpinmame does come with directions that tell you how to install it.
 

yogiholzer

Pinball Wizard
I'm sorry about Phoenixx' request to remove VIP from downloads. I think I'm not fully innocent for his decision. However and/or because of that I thought I need to offer anything else that can help instead of VIP. I thought about that today and made a simple batch routine. It would need all needed files already downloaded in 1 single directory. It's not completed and there are still some errors I need to remove (replacing VPinball.exe with non expiering and running Visual PinMAME setup.exe still doesn't work). Old DOS times are too long ago.

What do you think of the idea? Anything to develope further? Any help?

Here is the batch file, if you like to have a look at.

It needs additional command line 7zip unzipper.
 

Attachments

destruk

Pinball Wizard
Site Supporters
In this case Tudnut, I think Ultracade has the easiest solution now. You pay them $4000, they ship you a computer in a cabinet with displays. The roms, the vbs files, and the tables are preloaded on the hard drive already. They already have vp and vpm installed. The machine even comes with guaranteed to work (without issues) video drivers and the OS with everything required for you. It is just 'plug it in and press start button' ready. The ultimate easy install kit is there for you.

Whenever you get something for free, there are some basic ground level necessities to getting it to work, and if you don't have those, some easy install kit might leave out one requirement that prevents it from working. At least there are some support options for the freebie install - the forum, the chatroom, email and direct access to most of the people involved. I don't think the effort involved is too much to ask. Anyone who does, well, they end up not loading it, so they move on to some other one-click install commercial program.
 

yogiholzer

Pinball Wizard
@destruk: What's this about tudnut?

@Shockman: Seriously? EIK is previous version of VIP! There is nothing like that anymore. I don't need, but I was on search for easy replacement and run that idea. I don't think it needs endless work, but is nearly ok, when the little errors are removed.
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
yogiholzer said:
@destruk: What's this about tudnut?
I think he just called you a tudnut?
What does that translate to?

@Shockman: Seriously? EIK is previous version of VIP! There is nothing like that anymore. I don't need, but I was on search for easy replacement and run that idea. I don't think it needs endless work, but is nearly ok, when the little errors are removed.
Ok got it. Didn't MrHide have one too?
I don't know how important it is to have this thing. But surly it is better to have it than to not, or something like that. What format is it in? Maybe someone else can take it over? All it needs now is future maintainence, right?
 

yogiholzer

Pinball Wizard
I don't know any translation for that word (?). I tried online translator before I posted, because I thought the same. :)

There was anything else from anyone else. I don't remember, if it was available.

It's a simple batch file http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batch_file. You can view the file content in every text editor.

I just need to find out a few commands. I think from the last DOS version there are a few missing (choice is gone i. e.).
 

elton

Pinball Wizard
destruk said:
Whenever you get something for free, there are some basic ground level necessities to getting it to work, and if you don't have those, some easy install kit might leave out one requirement that prevents it from working. At least there are some support options for the freebie install - the forum, the chatroom, email and direct access to most of the people involved. I don't think the effort involved is too much to ask. Anyone who does, well, they end up not loading it, so they move on to some other one-click install commercial program.
Oh Destruk, I do agree with you. But many people me included, who only just started with the internet (at the time of first finding VP and VPM that is), are unaware of what assistance is available through forums etc. Hell I didn't know what a forum was LOL

It is worth time and effort on the users behalf to learn what is required. Many might give up on route because they do not find the assistance they seek in an easily digestable and understandable format. Not everyone is as wise and knowledgable as the experts who have been clued in for years and are anyways very technically proficient in other PC related areas.

So I generally agree that if it's worth having it's worth putting some effort in but, if there can be a VIP that gets peeps up to speed quickly that's got to be a good thing also.
 

Phoenixx

Starfleet Member
Site Supporters
I thought about what you folks said and came to the conclusion that by cancelling the VIP i would in deed take something important away that would help many people to get into VP/VPM. And that was in deed not very nice of me just because a few ignorants are bothering me to death. But im still not sure if the constant stress and trouble is really worth it for ME, because its not only the about the new users that profit from it, its also about ME and my nerves, which noone seems to care about. And then there is that thing with gratefulness and respect, which seems to be unknown for a lot of folks either,...

Just for fun i took the time to make a little 'chart' to compare the facts and to find out what offering the VIP actually means for ME, Phoenixx1771, the AUTHOR of the VIP.

It looks about like that:

Hours spent to make/develop/update the VIP: Cant count them anymore.
Total money spent to make the VIP available for download on my server: Approx. €250.-
Downloads since day one: Approx. 25,000
People that got everything to work with the EIK/VIP: (Estimated) 90%
People that said 'Thank You': Approx. 50
People that offered anything in return: 0
People that blame the application for user errors: Approx. 90%
People that start a fight if im defending the application against untrue claims: Constantly
People acting ungrateful and respectless towards me: Constantly
People claiming untrue things about my character, person, intensions and attitude, etc.: Constantly
People supporting me and the application when i have trouble: Max. 1-2 (if someone at all).

Summa Summarum:
A lot of people are making use of what im offering.
It does a lot of good for all kinds of people out there.
Over 99% are taking it for granted.
0% are offering anything in return. (Just a fact, i dont expect anything.)
90% are immediately blaming the application when there are problems.
A lot of them are even starting a fight if im trying to set the facts straight.

That means the things that are left exclusively for ME are:
Having constant trouble with all kinds of folks for all kinds of the most ridiculous reasons,
Being treated without any respect for what im doing to make the VIP available,
Being accused of totally untrue things all the time,
Constantly having to defend the application and its reputation against untrue claims of users that were doing anything wrong,
Constantly having to deal with respectless and ungrateful comments from folks who think a VIP wasnt needed anyway,
Constantly having to deal with respectless and ungrateful comments from folks who are doing it out of personal reasons,
Being totally on my own with all that crap.

In short: The new and unexperienced users are profiting from it and all the negative things are exclusively left for me, which im totally alone with. And there is absolutely *nothing* that would equalize this a bit,...*nothing* that would make up at least a little BIT for all the negativity that i have to deal with all the time. I certainly didnt make the VIP because i expect a memorial or what, but from over TWENTYFIVETHOUSAND people that downloaded the VIP all that i got was a handful of ThankYous, while the TROUBLE seems to be absolutely constant and neverending, if you know what i mean,...

Bottomline:
Is it worth it for the new and unexperienced users? No Doubt.
Is it worth it for ME? Not as it currently stands!

So what am i supposed to do?
Being egoistic and taking it away to put an end to the constant trouble to save my nerves?
Offering it anyway, and simply ignoring it when someone is about destroy the VIPs reputation which im working for so hard?
Offering it anyway, and simply getting used to the fact that noone cares for the things that i did to make the VIP a reality, which means keeping on fighting the fights and having the constant trouble and being treated respectless and ungrateful? Should i do this even though when this is all that offering the VIP means for me, because im not profiting from it in any way?

I guess i have to seriously think about that before i make a final decision,...until then you can leave the VIP here for download but if i decide not to continue i want to you delete it,...

I will let you know when i made my decision,...
 

Phoenixx

Starfleet Member
Site Supporters
BTW,...Bravo Yogi, you are a true Hero! Glad that you found such a quick 'replacement' (LOL) for the VIP! At first you are pissing the VIP author off until he finally has enough of the stress and takes it down, and without missing a beat you are trying to take its place with anything of your own,...

Yeah,...THATS what i call showing respect and responsibility,... :thumleft:
 

yogiholzer

Pinball Wizard
If it was good for convincing you to think about your former final decision and request to remove VIP, what's the problem?

If you would have a closer look at that "replacement", you would find out fast, that it's probably completely different. It's no replacement! It's meant as a step by step installation help.

Dependent from your decision about VIP, it's the only or an additional help tool (assumed it works at all). That's all.

It's just a batch routine everyone can use for free. It's open for improvements for everyone. It didn't cost me anything. It's not my fault that it didn't take longer to write. You don't find any hint in that routine, that it is from me.
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
My advice would be to end the EIK/VIP if you feel that way about it. Not because I am one of the 99% that take it for granted, and one of the 0% that offered anything in return, or one of the 10% that could not get it to work, but because of how it makes YOU feel.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Thanks for changing your mind Phoenixx. But I have to agree with Shockman, if it's making you that unhappy, why keep doing it. But if you do decide to stop updting it, I would hope that you ask for someone to volunteer to maintain it for you. It's very helpful and useful for a lot of people, and I'd hate to have to remove it from our downloads. I also think that Yogi was simply trying to come up with a substtute for your VIP when he thought you were removing it. You know I've been supportive of you and the VIP. A lot of people have posted how helpful it has been for them, but most programs and tables don't get a lot of comments, unless there are problems with the program.
 

Paratech

Pinball Wizard
Phoenixx, If you are to continue maintaining the program, do it because you want to, I helped my girlfriend design a pin table, and I know it isn't of Eala quality, but you know what? I enjoy playing Captain America, and if Charline and I enjoy the table, it was worth making it, if noone else likes it, tough shit, in the end you're only responsible for doing things that you want to do, just because I don't use your program doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, nor that PacDude gets into arguments with you. I'm sure he'd diss Charline's table given the opportunity, but I don't care, I enjoy the table...Have fun and enjoy yourself...
 
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    where is the unapprove option, anyway? is that a super mod thing or something from the admin panel?
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