WIP Recreation Video Games BAM FP Space Cadet 3.0

[Paolo]

Okay, Space Cadet 3.0.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

I'm sure most of us Windows users played this little classic. Funny thing is, reading just now, I had no idea the Windows version and the original Full Tilt! version actually weren't the same. So-- sounds like the "3D" version is a remake of the original, with somewhat different rules. Huh!

I don't think I ever did play the two other tables included in Full Tilt 1, i.e. Skulduggery and Dragon's Keep. Anyway, Moby games has pics of them here:

Full Tilt! Pinball screenshots - MobyGames

Real, non-modified screenshots taken by players for Full Tilt! Pinball

www.mobygames.com

There was also a sequel trilogy that looks kinda... gimmicky?

Full Tilt! 2 Pinball screenshots - MobyGames

Real, non-modified screenshots taken by players for Full Tilt! 2 Pinball

www.mobygames.com

 

[GeorgeH]

I played the MS video game many times. I liked GF's version even better. This is definitely a good table to update.

 

[Paolo]

ops!!

 

[Paolo]

Ramp update!
The original ramp was in 2 parts and sometimes the ball comes back, so I tried to improve it.

 

[GeorgeH]

Interesting. Maybe you could help me with the ramps on the Dr Who table. I can't get them to work right. It uses FP ramps. No custom models.

 

[Paolo]

Maybe you could help me with the ramps on the Dr Who table

Of course,no problem......what kind of problem do you have with the ramp in DW? at what height is it?

 

[Paolo]

it's amazing how things happen, while i'm updating this wonderful table, here's the surprise, @jpsalas, create the version for vpx HERE..... fflawless timing, because is,of a couple of days, I've been trying to figure out, how to activate the multiball, (I don't know the reason why GF didn't insert it) so now, thanks to the JP version, I can understand it, and eventually add it, "code allowing me" ... the GF code is very mathematical .... but I am managed to solve some errors, of no small impact in the rules .... I hope to be able to insert the "meteor storm" precisely the multiball.

 

[GeorgeH]

it's amazing how things happen, while i'm updating this wonderful table, here's the surprise, @jpsalas, create the version for vpx HERE..... flawless timing, because i have been trying to understand how multiball is activated for a couple of days , (I don't know the reason why GF didn't insert it) so now, thanks to the JP version, I can understand it, and eventually add it, "code allowing me" ... the GF code is very mathematical .... but I am managed to solve some errors, of no small impact in the rules .... I hope to be able to insert the "meteor storm" precisely the multiball.

I think GF recreated the original Microsoft version that did not have multiball. JP recreated the Maxis version that adds multiball and replays after missions to Microsoft's original version. You could probably make both versions switchable on one table because the Maxis version doesn't seem to add a whole lot more.

The rules are here (though I think it is for the original version because I did not find multiball listed):

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/563047-3d-pinball-space-cadet/faqs/46514 (3D Pinball: Space Cadet - Guide and Walkthrough - PC - By froesch14 - GameFAQs)

The Maxis version can be downloaded here (appears to be free):

https://www.myabandonware.com/game/full-tilt-pinball-a3m (Full Tilt! Pinball)

Video of the Maxis version with rules explained:

Of course,no problem......what kind of problem do you have with the ramp in DW? at what height is it?

I can't get the ball all the way up the ramps consistently. The ball often bounces around inside the ramp and rolls back down although it does hit occasionally. I lowered the ramps considerably that improved things but they still don't work right.

 

[Paolo]

I think GF recreated the original Microsoft version that did not have multiball. JP recreated the Maxis version that adds multiball and replays after missions to Microsoft's original version. You could probably make both versions switchable on one table because the Maxis version doesn't seem to add a whole lot more.

even that of GF, is a maxis version(there are meteor lights), the fact is that in the rules it does not explain( I have searched and seen almost everything on the internet ) how to activate the multiball, you had to play the version of "full tilt" that I have had for many years, in fact, even in this way Dragon keep was born .. ... even in this ...... you don't see many things in the rules, I spent months to understand how the table works( playing like crazy) ..... and then I said it with videos to GF ..... so i completed DK ...... but GF wasn't the type to spend months on a table ..... like SC.

I can't get the ball all the way up the ramps consistently. The ball often bounces around inside the ramp and rolls back down although it does hit occasionally. I lowered the ramps considerably that improved things but they still don't work right.

I know, same problem for me too and for all, after all if we create a ramp with a base almost twice the width of the ball, because we think it is easier to hit it, and normal that, depending on how it enters in the ramp, the ball begins to rebound in it with the consequence that stops and rolls back .....so
if you then add that it could also be high ... well, then out of 10 shots addressed on that ramp, only once will you see it go up and complete the entire ramp ..... the geometry of a ramp, not enough, you need to have other conditions favorable , which you know very well, omega, mass, gravity, slope ... etc etc

the barrier above the ramp is also a deciding factor, the right measures help tremendously

send me the table, maybe I can find another solution .... ok..ok no ramp-assisted.....I mean tricks with kicker, however, could be a solution, if there really isn't one.

 

[GeorgeH]

if you then add that it could also be high.

Max height of the front ramp is currently 46 mm; back ramp 47 mm.

I tried making the ramps narrower. It makes the ball not bounce around in the ramp but now it just goes partially up the ramp and rolls back down though the ball does hit the ramp occasionally as before. I am pretty sure the flipper omega is right.

I could send the table to you. You can add some assist if needed. I tried to figure out how you added it to TZ but was unable. I noticed you used the name of the custom ramp in the code on TZ but DW has no custom ramps.

I could try watching the video for the Maxis version to see if I can write up the rules for multiball which may be difficult for you because the video is in English.

 

[Paolo]

Max height of the front ramp is currently 46 mm; back ramp 47 mm.

I tried making the ramps narrower. It makes the ball not bounce around in the ramp but now it just goes partially up the ramp and rolls back down though the ball does hit the ramp occasionally as before. I am pretty sure the flipper omega is right.

You have a thread open on this table?

Ok, I went to look at the table, the one in pinsim, hey man waooooo, there are two ramps in this table(I wonder who the geniuses of bally are)we are talking about two really tough ramps.I tried it a couple of minutes, and immediately it was clear to me that it is practically unplayable for me, without Bam, in terms of ramps.

The central one is practically impossible to be hit (and by a miracle to complete it) by the 2 fins at the bottom, and is potentially affected by the fin at the top left ..... and you must have an almost perfect timing: 1)for hit it, 2) to be able to complete it,on the other hand you can hardly cradle the ball to take aim.It is built in 5 pieces,(of this is discussed later), but let's examine the first piece, height 50, base width 80, width at the top 45, these are measures that will not help at all to climb a ball, you have to shoot with and as a cannon, and it will not be enough, because the ball bounces on this first piece of the ramp, and as soon as it enters the second piece it comes back .....lacks the fluidity of climb, I don't know if you understand what I mean by fluidity.

Now, the one(ramp) on the right we talk more later, I need more information, I don't know what you did in your version,

I could try to build a model-ramp, but I highly doubt it would help, as the position of this infinite (I think one of the longest I remember) and particular ramp, is not one of the easiest to hit, and not even complete it .. ... a question, although you have insert the "bam staff",i.è. Dynamic flipper, (with the most suitable omega) mass, gravity, slope, and XML changes ..... in your time employed in the test, how many times do you remember completing this "absurd" (for me) ramp?.......I always refer to the central one

I could send the table to you. You can add some assist if needed.

for this absurd ramp, I think maybe so

I could try watching the video for the Maxis version to see if I can write up the rules for multiball which may be difficult for you because the video is in English.

Yes Thanks G, it would be really very useful, because I don't understand what the guy says in the video, I see the multiball activated but I don't understand the rule,in the sense that maybe you have to do something specific first, which concerns either a mission, or something that you have to do with the three kickers called WormHole, which are activated with the target next to the spinner at the top right, where there is that design " red flame" on playfied.

moreover there is also another thing to understand that is the lockball, there is a lockball before the multiball .... it's not easy I know ..... that's why GF. didn't insert it, not because of the code, he was also a master in this .... but because he could not understand how it to activates, like me now ..... you have to play and record, which GF hated to do ..... however the multiball is in two ways two marbles and three marbles .... "we" must understand how it to activates .....

 

[Paolo]

ops!




.

 

[GeorgeH]

I have been watching the video. Multiball starts when you hit the worm hole 3 times when the yellow light in front of it is lit. It is like a ball lock. The "worm hole" is the kicker below the right bank of yellow drop targets. Missions cannot be completed during multiball. There are 2 other "worm hole" kickers but the one below the drop targets is the easiest to hit.

Completing any mission will award an extra ball.

The light in front of the "worm hole" kickers sometimes turns red and green. I haven't figured out what that means. There are modes where hitting the kicker will transport the ball to one of the other worm hole kickers. Other times it just kicks the ball back out. The red and green lights may indicate which it does but I am not sure yet. I will continue watching the video.

 

[Paolo]

@GeorgeH
Thanks, don't worry, if you can't understand some thing, so the difficulty also is for those who have English ... it's not easy, you have to play a lot for to understand ..... that guy,and you can believe me,he know that table better than the created that game, because he played with it for years .... and I know, because I did it even for DK in same way.

I also asked to Jpsalas, who created the table for VPX, seeing that video, (I don't know how he did ... but maybe, he knows English very well, I think) so I asked if he could explain to me too, so, to have more confirmations.

So for now I have everything clear, the multiball is blocked, from the kickers "wormhole", but to do this must be hit the kicker with its corresponding light, yellow kicker, there must be the yellow arrow turned on ... if it is red I have to hit the red kicker at the top right, if there is the green arrow the green kicker at the top left, when it blocks three balls in this way then active the multiball3, but always with the kicker with the color arrow corresponding at that moment ..... . The color changes both if I hit the targetWormHole or the spinner on the right ...... that this is now becomes a problem ... We know that it is not possible to quantify the turns of a spinner ... each ride a color change .. ... I have to do it back to Toys ... I don't know yet

 

[HZR]

Check Pinball Star on the windows 10 store

 

[GeorgeH]

Check Pinball Star on the windows 10 store

Interesting version. Does it play multiball?

 

[HZR]

Interesting version. Does it play multiball?

its more designed for tablets. i poked at it for about 10 seconds.

 

[Paolo]

Ok, I'm going to work on this again, I'm done putting the color changing lights on all the bumpers.
waiting to be able to understand and insert the "chart" system, I dedicate myself very calmly, to insert the multiball, stay tuned.

 

[Paolo]

Playfield improved!

 

[Paolo]

Ok, thanks to my friend Mark @madmrmax and his advice ( HERE ), I resume this wip that I opened on August 20, 2021, so as to inform those who are not aware that I am working on this table.
In reality I had decided to use a single thread for my table's ( Paolo (wild) table's...." demonstration and to bam update") both in development and in updating, but someone might miss something, so to avoid misunderstandings I'm re-opening this very first thread.

This table is an update from version 2.0 that Gianfranco (franzleo) left us, and I have been working on it with a lot of passion and determination for a few years, I won't add anything else.

Here's what I've done so far:
* Added Bam Staff.
* Added Optimal Physics.
* Added Backbox DMD info.
* Added Multiball WormHoleKicker.
* Added New System Of Magnete On Gravity Well.
* Added New System Color For All Bumpers And Arrow WormHole Light.
* Added Change Color Arrow On The Spinner Hyperspace.
* Added Some Sound And New Music.
* Fixed Some Error.
* Added Many Ornament.
* Dynamic lights.
* Improved the playfield (see above).

Only a clarification,please:
Yesterday I posted my latest update on Space Cadet, in my unique thread, I'll post it here too;

Ok, I continue to update Space Cadet, since the last update that you can see in the video above of which I had done many many things, and also added multiball, I had tried to perfect the ramp that Gianfranco had made, for a better uphill of the ball, but I wasn't satisfied it still wasn't as smooth as I wanted.

A small clarification;
The T1/2 Ramps of Fp, in certain situations it is not the best, its construction is an art, with a good sense of geometry, as I did a long time ago for Doctor Who, it is possible to build a decent ramp, but Sometimes that's not enough, a valid solution is a 3D model ramp.
The dear "Rom" together with Francisco, were masters in the creation of 3D model ramps, the late Gianfranco was also good, but without a doubt the greatest difficulty is not building a ramp, but the coordination of the textures.
In fact they, and I now, using "Milkshape" is a crazy pain trying to coordinate the textures, milk does not have suitable "tools" to make things easy for you, so many 3d ramps were with semi-transparent, glossy textures, or with single color chrome.

Having said this, in SC, there is the same problem, Gianfranco did not create a 3D ramp for this very reason, due to the difficulty of coordinating the texture in milk, which in FP is automatically with a suitable texture, so he built the ramp using the Fp one, but this being a particular ramp.... it doesn't appear to be fluid enough even though it was in two parts, then I modified it (in my latest update) and made it in three parts, but it still didn't turn out as I wanted.
So the solution is to build a 3D ramp, it wasn't easy, but I managed it, in the 3D model you can smooth out those points that are created with the Fp ramp when you have multiple parts of the ramp, (a single ramp in this case and too steep) for a better climbing fluidity.

The biggest problem is coordinating the texture, after many attempts I gave up and came up with this solution....
watch the video thanks.

Next step add FizX

 

[Paolo]

Well......said that above, I want to be clear, given some debates that occurred, for those who know, about this table.
I am willing to receive advice for a collaboration for the purpose of improving my current version, so if someone wants to contribute it is welcome, obviously with my times, and above all to be aware that the final decision is waiting for me only, since in this version there I worked a lot, as you can see.

Otherwise, take version 2.0,nd you can work on that version and start doing everything from scratch.

SS - Recreation Video Games - FP - Space Cadet 3D (Maxis, 1996)

by franzleo at 2012-02-12 Type Recreation (videogame) Editor Digital Illusions CE (1988-2004) Date 1996

pinballnirvana.com

Just to be even clearer, I, some time ago I had published here on in PN, a 3.0 version, which for various reasons led me to remove, so if someone was going to use that version to work on it, know that you don't have mine permit, it will be seen by me, as a lack of respect for me and towards my work, because that version is almost identical to the one that I continue to update still today.
that's all!!

thanks.

 

[GeorgeH]

EDITED BY ADMINISTRATOR.

There is no need to get too harsh. Paolo is trying. I don't think Paolo understands what collaborate means as he still has some difficulty with the English language.

Paolo,

Collaborate means you work together on the table some of like what you and GF used to do.