Boycott?

highrise

Pinball Wizard
As we have seen from the recent poll, most of the regulars have voted that Ron Bizzle should have been banned for the highly offensive posts he made and his unwillingness to apologise for them. This last week, there has been hardly any talk about pinball at all, and this is primarily because he is still wandering around with only a warning saying that he did nothing wrong.

I believe that most people think what he did was unforgivable, and the situation his continued presence has created is killing this site. All I want to do is get back to releasing my work and passing on my knowledge, but I feel I can't do this here with him still around, because I am not comfortable with the fact that his behaviour has been tolerated with a simple warning.

If there are enough people in favour of this, I would like to suggest we boycott this site for a number of days, maybe even a week, in protest at the posts that were made and how strongly we feel about it. We want the admin to understand that we, the regulars, the life blood of the forum, want the site to get back to normal, but it won't happen unless he's gone.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but I hope many of you will see this as a point of principle. We want to save the site, not kill it. Who's with me on this?
 

highrise

Pinball Wizard
I know what action was taken. The punishment did not fit the crime, and as a result made light of his actions. A warning is something people shoud get if they make one or two personal attacks. A person should not get the same treatment if they pursue a long series of graphic and disgusting images together with unrepentant, verbal abuse of many members, all the time very much aware of how much offense is being caused.

In legal terms, it's like saying that someone who gets drunk and punches someone in the face should get the same treatment as a serial rapist who says the women were asking for it. The drunk would get a warning not to do it again. If you did the same with the rapist there would be uproar. There is no way you would be able to allow him to walk the streets. People would be ashamed to be part of a society that did that, which is why people have voted for him to be kicked out. Permanently.

So I say again. What Bizzle did was exceptional, and this is an exceptional case. He is an unrepentant, repeat offender. It makes no sense to stick to rules that clearly do not deal with the level of offense he caused. He has made no personal attacks on me whatsoever, this is simply a matter of principle, decency and common sense.

I respect you sticking to your guns on this, but I truly believe that if you don't act, you will look back on this point and see that it was the beginning of the end for this forum. It will all be downhill from now on because intelligent, enthusiastic pinball fans like me have lost respect for it.
 

highrise

Pinball Wizard
Rhetoric? Yes, I agree. I think that rather applies rather well to what you said to him. To quote the link:

'the terms "rhetoric" and "sophistry" are also used today in a pejorative or dismissive sense, when someone wants to distinguish between "empty" words and action'

The warning you gave him are empty words. So describing it as rhetoric, in order to distinguish it from genuine action against him, would seem to apply rather well.
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
The warning I gave him were empty words to you, to Bizzle they were much more and he has paid heed to those words, as has been evident by his posts since.
 

highrise

Pinball Wizard
what, as in "I will try not to post any more offensive material. if you don't want me to be abusive, quit messing with me." ? That was his 'apology'. He's laughing.

If it really meant something, he would say sorry and take responsibility. If he expressed more remorse than that in a PM, perhaps you should publish it.
 

Paratech

Pinball Wizard
StevOz said:
The warning I gave him were empty words to you, to Bizzle they were much more and he has paid heed to those words, as has been evident by his posts since.

I certainly don't get the impression he's remourseful, but this is NOT my site, and you are free to run things as you see fit. I also don't think a boycott accomplishes much, and won't participate in one...

But I suspect there will be more "controversial" tables and I feel bad a site is so desperate for tables it would accept some of the ones Ron has created just to create controversy...

Here I thought pinball was entertainment, no political grandstanding...

:oops:
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
An apology or remorse was not a condition of the warning.

What is this imaginary site you speak of Paratech?


Here I thought pinball was entertainment, no political grandstanding... ditto!
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
He should not have to publish his pms. He should not have to loose you, or John, or anyone else for not treating some person like trash. The things you did not like about Ron are the things some of us are having a hard time understanding why you are doing right now, ranting extreme views.

One of two things are going to happen I think
Ron is going to jump in the deep end again and is going to get himself banned.
Ron is going to drop it and be more like he was before he went off on Phoenixx.
Isn't this a list of good things in your view?

It's not revenge that you seek is it?
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
Because this site has an open door policy on punitive action, I could ask, what was the terms of the agreement? That posting of offensive material be stopped? That is reasonable. No brain washing, and the site takes care of only the site.

You are doing well, this case, 'Oz.
 

Paratech

Pinball Wizard
StevOz said:
An apology or remorse was not a condition of the warning.

What is this imaginary site you speak of Paratech?


Here I thought pinball was entertainment, no political grandstanding... ditto!

I'd imagine without remorse or a sense of having done something wrong, he will continue with his behavior...

But I guess getting all those tables from him is worth the trouble it causes and people who are leaving.

I'm not leaving, but as he gets support from this site, I am losing respect for the site...
:twisted:
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Support really?

How's that then?

All are free to post within the rules of these forums, it has nothing to do with support. :roll:
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
Paratech said:
StevOz said:
An apology or remorse was not a condition of the warning.

What is this imaginary site you speak of Paratech?


Here I thought pinball was entertainment, no political grandstanding... ditto!

I'd imagine without remorse or a sense of having done something wrong, he will continue with his behavior...

:twisted:

You imagine 'Oz giving him rope to hang himself with? I could see that.
 

highrise

Pinball Wizard
"An apology or remorse was not a condition of the warning."

Which is exactly my point. If you don't think he should be made to apologise, shame on you.

I really do find it sad that wanting to stand up against the things he said, things that anyone with an ounce of moral fibre would find abhorrent has apparently turned me into a pariah, accused of having extreme views.

He never offended me. He never attacked me, or said anything personal against me. It is not personal. JLP thanked me for being loyal to him. I told him I wasn't loyal to him - the only thing I am loyal to is the truth and doing what is right. It would make no difference to me who it was, I simply will not stand by and allow others to be abused in that way.

When I came to this forum, I found a dwindling community that I thought might benefit from my enthusiasm. I wanted to breathe new life into the scene, full of plans for new tables, tutorials and demos. I leave it sadly disillusioned, realising that in the end, people only think of themselves. So Bizzle stays, and I go. Will the site go downhill from here? We shall see - you only get what you deserve.

As Martin Luther King once said - "in the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Noone can be forced to apologize with remorse or should any attempt such a foolish course of action.
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
One cannot be forced to do so, through extortion, threats or any such negative means.

Though they can be shown the error in their ways and through forgiveness, guidance, education and patients. In time they may see the error in there ways and know true remorse.
 

highrise

Pinball Wizard
I'm not suggesting you force him to apologise. I'm saying you shouldn't stand for the fact that he won't. You're applying rational arguments to an irrational person, and reason to someone who is completely unreasonable. He doesn't speak your language, and never will. He's 47 years old for crying out loud. You won't tame him with leniency any more than placating Hitler stopped him from invading Poland.

Ah, forget it. I'm done with this. Some lessons can only be learned the hard way. Hope you enjoy the future here.
 
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