Call me confuseled

[destruk]

I'm not sure if this is jumping ship, or just stupidity. Ignoring the larger picture? I'm not sure. Just to create something, give it away for free for years, and then give it to someone with explicit or implied instructions saying "Take this, now charge everyone for it, make money for yourself and don't give me anything for it" - ? Is this because you want to punish people in the future? Is it because you have subliminal thoughts of suicide? Is it because you're a martyr? Or is it an attempt at trying to prove you are better than everyone else? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Now I can understand - it was free before, keep it free. And I can understand you give away a beta for the first version and charge for every version thereafter. And I have no problem with 'selling' or receiving payments for a usage contract at which point you don't care what the buyer does with it. But this really resembles a scenario, in which you give a birthday present to a friend and he sells it on ebay the next day - only you're telling him to do it.

Makes me wonder just how screwed up the world is, really, with people like this.

My own view, of course, is that the tables have been free for the last four years, to suddenly include them in a commercial product means more people will 'buy the product' thinking they are paying $3000 for the tables AND a $200 box and pc inside, when the reality is the opposite, an overpriced cabinet with what should be free software in it.

 

[tiltjlp]

Does make you think, doesn't it? I can't imagine that Foley would really be interested on my bagatelle, flipperless, or flipperless, but if he is, why nit give them to him, as long as I can still make and release tables. And especially if he is going to give us all a new and improved VP?

But as for any payments going into a commin fund, why? I know exavtly who co-authored each of my tables. Believe it or not, I even did a few on my own. My only mistake might have been giving credit when credit might not have been deserved. Big deal, I'm sure none of us authors will end up rich.

Another thing, I offer help, sometimes a lot, and won't let folks give me credit. I don't help or test, or share routines so my reputation can grow, along with my ego. I help because over 50 years ago someone got me started on a writing career, and I vowed to help anyone I could. And not just with writing, with life in general and even pinball. So if he wants to give me some money, it'll come i \n handy. But if I don't get a dime, I've still make a lot of tables I enjoy playing. How much you give me for a sloghtly used trade stimilator made with VP 6.1?

John

 

[PacDude]

Is that what Randy did? We don't know how much money he made from the license. I'm thinking someone offered him a fairly large figure for the VP license (probably 5 digit range) and he probably thought, Hey! A new car for me for something I never expected originally to see anything other than a school grade for! Maybe it wasn't like that. But I get the feeling VP *was* a school or hobby project that Randy largely lost interest in for whatever reason (and maybe pinball too for all I know since he's shown no public interest in any tables for it in years) and along comes someone years later and offers to give him a fistful of dollars for a school project and he gets to retain ownership to boot. It does sound kind of tempting in that context, doesn't it?

But then even a fistful of quarters for a table developer might sound tempting compared to the big NOTHING you'll get otherwise... that is if you don't care about the moral implications or the fact you're getting paid pennies for something worth thousands.

I've given my own "one for all and all for one" type speech about VP/VPM before so there's not point in dredging it up again. But apparently Randy wasn't on board with that. He's Anakin Skywalker deciding the Jedi Counsel pushing for free goods for everyone is actually up to no good while the Emporer is tempting him with lots of money and telling him it's what America is all about.

 

[tiltjlp]

Niw don't forget that probably 3 years ago Randy licensed VP to be used in a similar commercial project ball Virtual Pinball, if memioy serves me well. No matter, no one can fault Randy, since VP is his concept.

John

 

[destruk]

Thanks to PataTrox, you can now buy his tables.

http://gridpoint.shivasite.com/ptx.htm

They're all up for grabs. I wish all authors gave permission to do that - we'd just be rolling in money!!!

 

[PacDude]

And only $60 per table. What a steal! (well of someone else's IP anyway)

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

cool, I was missing some of those Gottlieb ROMS :)

 

[bob]

My personal take on Mr Foley is...

He's turning our community into a whore house! He's turning us into cheap prostitutes. I want to think I do this for the love of the game, but now I feel like the "fun" is gone.

It had to happen someday, I figured it would happen when FP was released, so it wasn't that far away anyway. I guess we'll all play the "wait and see" what happens game, but it looks like greed will win.

People are coming out of the woodwork to remind everyone what their contribution to VP was and to mention their tables to Foley. It's almost comical to watch, but I'm not laughing.

It's the end of an era...

 

[tiltjlp]

My personal take on Mr Foley is...

He's turning our community into a whore house! He's turning us into cheap prostitutes. I want to think I do this for the love of the game, but now I feel like the "fun" is gone.

It had to happen someday, I figured it would happen when FP was released, so it wasn't that far away anyway. I guess we'll all play the "wait and see" what happens game, but it looks like greed will win.

People are coming out of the woodwork to remind everyone what their contribution to VP was and to mention their tables to Foley. It's almost comical to watch, but I'm not laughing.

It's the end of an era...

In some ways I have to agree with you, but I figure I don't have to worry. I can't imagine Foley having any interest in my work. And I'm not a two bit whorse, and even if I was interested, it would take more than pocket change to get me to sell out.

Now if Foley does improve VP for us, I'll be apprecuative. But I'm afraid if he does, even more authors will be chomping at the bit. Has anyone noticed that we've had a few missing authors pop up all of a sudden with new WIP? Well, I'm not selling and I'm not retiring, I've still got 200 more tables to make, if not more. I'll be too busy to count chimp change,

John

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I would not discount his interest in you tables yet Tiltjlp
with most of your tables any copyrights and patents would have lapsed many years ago, therefore I would be cheaper and easier to include your stuff, rather that more moden tables
(I could be wrong too, I am not a lawyer :) )

but I cannot imagine the budget per table for the actual software (VP authors work) would be any more than $100, divide that by the amount of tables included (I would be upset if 200 tables were not included in the package), and I don't think that you guys are going to see much at all

 

[destruk]

there will be 5 tables included TMFP

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I haven't really being reading the thread at VPF

I am not an author, DF offers don't apply to me

If the worst case senario arives (we cannot use VP anymore) then there wont be a whole lot that I can do

So I am just focusing my vision on world domination by cats

 

[StevOz]

I am not an author, DF offers don't apply to me

I don't know about that TMFP...how about that Australian 20c coin sound you recorded, I bet you could get 20c for that.

That's about what it amounts to.

 

[PacDude]

Let's just say the offer (that someone relayed to me) is considerably more than I thought and they could could eventually sell say 10,000 machines and I sold him 21 tables I made by myself (i.e. minus the Gottlib and Taito ones I made), I could still go buy a nice new house on the lake with it. Even selling 1000 machines would get me a nice new car.

 

[destruk]

Based on their pricing options for ultracade game packs, I'd say they probably are offering $10 per machine sold, per table.

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

Do they have any (Money for nothing) chicks for free.....

 

[tiltjlp]

Based on their pricing options for ultracade game packs, I'd say they probably are offering $10 per machine sold, per table.

If it's that kind of money it could be hard to resist. I sure hope he is intested in flipperless and such. If he's going to make the tables anyway, why not let him use our code at those rates? A lot to think about.

John

 

[bob]

Too bad I wasted my time trying to come up with original ideas....

 

[destruk]

Bob - we're talking about 5 people, probably, who even got an offer. I wasn't one of them. But just because I didn't get one, doesn't mean I'd have accepted it. The stuff I have recreated I don't want to see people paying money for in an arcade.

Set it to free play, and give the machines away, and then sure, I'd allow them to pay me for them as a kind of donation, LOL...

Sorry, I hit the edit button instead of quote. . . John

 

[tiltjlp]

Bob - we're talking about 5 people, probably, who even got an offer. I wasn't one of them. But just because I didn't get one, doesn't mean I'd have accepted it. The stuff I have recreated I don't want to see people paying money for in an arcade.

Set it to free play, and give the machines away, and then sure, I'd allow them to pay me for them as a kind of donation, LOL...

Now if I understand right, the machines come with 5 tables, but expansion packs with more tables will be offered. So there's still hope for the rest of us.

John

 

[PacDude]

More like $1. But hey, I figured it would be around 2 cents so.... :D

 

[bob]

Brian, I was really just joking :) If anyone wanted to sell someone's tables or hire an author to make sellable tables, then I really wouldn't expect to be on that list :) Scapino, Starman and PD are a few names I would put on that list, they do it all and do it right.