Dear God! That Gigantic Thread Of Randy's Is Driving Me NUTS

[bob]

I haven't tried any of the fixes yet, but I try to check that thread out to see if there is any progress being made. I'm hoping for a final release on the fix before Christmas and I'm hoping for Randy to stick around, but I just don't think that will happen.

I have come to the conclusion that Randy is an alien... That's right, he's a little fat green guy who came to the planet earth and played some pinball and then wrote a program and then blasted off. He returned for some Twinkee's and decided to check out his little gift to the puny earthlings... And Oh, he found trouble, right here in VP City... With a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P' and that stands for 'pinball'

...anyway... That thread is driving me crazy! Randy won't talk and everyone else won't shut up!

What a freakin' disaster that thread is, it makes you yearn for Admin Kinsey to step in and clean it up BTW, how would you handle that situation Kins?

 

[PacDude]

I agree. That thread is the PRIME example of why Randy probably can't WAIT to run off again. Come to think of it, we haven't heard from him in a week or so now. He might already have fled town, but that doesn't stop everyone else from having a big stomping Hootinany. Phoenixx and "www" sound like their fixin' for a lynching the way they're going on there. :D :D :D

Seriously, I can't hardly blame Randy for wanting to jump ship with all the massive spamming FLUFF there the past month or two. I feel like doing it myself some days. Mitchell, in particular, is on a posting about nothing rampage there lately. I think people need to settle down and take some Riddilyn or something.... sheesh.

 

[tiltjlp]

I myself have wondered what Mitch's problem might be, he has actaully been posting more crap lately that Ice Warm. Personally I don't think all that junk phases Randy one iota. Now, what I find amusing is that Phoenixx only asked his questions once, he now is merely defending his right to ask them against, among others, Mr Wanker. Why ask, if he, meaning Randy, wanted to provide any information he would 1, do so on his own, or 2, answer my Q&A PM, and let me be his front man.

As for you Bob, I think you've been playing too much VPHO pinball, and need to take a holiday break until the New Year, so I have a chance to catch up with you. If you've noticed, I'm piling up those points fairly nicely for a bum of a player, but unless you ease up, I'll never get close enough to make it interesting.

And Mr Dude, just relax and stay calm, I'm working on a holiday gift for you, which I think you'll enjoy. And since I'm Ebenezer Cheapo, it's a virtual gift, so you won't have to worry about spoilage during shipping. The way you two are going on about doom and gloom, you sound like the Bobsey Twins, pun not intended.

John

 

[kristian]

Yes, I like Mitchell too. But enough is enough.

 

[panda55]

This will probably go unnoticed at VPF so I re-post it here

IDEA !!!!

Why not form a small group of people to be (for the want of a better description), "official beta testers". This group could have posting rights in a thread and the rest of us plebs could look on.

Those chosen might even make themselves available to test particular tables other users are having problems with, verifying the problem and keeping the error report short, factual and easier for Randy to use.

If you got a group with different machine specs, a good level of VP knowledge (creating and playing), a sound knowledge of XP and have current sound and video drivers for their machines, plus anything else worthwhile then that should cover the broadest possible spectrum of players/developers.

Let's try and be a little more organised and get the best result for all concerned, with the least amount of stress.

Isn't it worth a try folks.

 

[PacDude]

Try to get Randy to even TALK about such an idea, let alone get him to go along with it. I mean what makes you think Randy will discuss anything with such a group? Randy seems to live in his own world (or is hiding his true identity by talking as little as possible; take your pick).

 

[tiltjlp]

Personally I don't see much of a need for such a testing system. The problem isn't as complicated as you put it. Most of the tables with multiple glitches, requiring multiple fixes, are caused by a lack of initial testing by the author. I've been blamed of obsessing and over testing tables I'm involved with. But with 10 tables released solo or as part of various teams, there have only been 2 updates caused by problems with the table.

Also, an author needs to establish trust with his or her tester(s). A case in point is that I'm the only tester Will uses. One reason is that when he allows me enough time, his tables are error free at the time of release. But the tester Druadic had before me betrayed that trust I mentioned. The low life, who is no longer part of VP, altered an unfinished table of Will's, and released it as his own. Luckily Will caught it imediately, and that was that.

Sure, tell me that won't happen again. If it happened once, it can and might happen again. As for my tables, I'll continue to test them twice as long as I really need to, and I'll hand pick friend I trust to help with my testing. I get great results that way. Personally, I will never make a beta release, because I don't need or desire that many testers. But that's just my opinion.

John

 

[panda55]

Sorry if I have this wrong John, but I didn't mean testing of authors' tables, but testing revisions of Randy's VP-fixes, and giving concise feedback.

But the point is moot anyway, as there doesn't seem to be any desire to make Randy's job any easier.

In fact, as the fix was meant for XP users with service pack 2 installed I find it hard to fathom why people are complaining (or noting) of problems caused by the 'fix' when they are using other operating system versions, from Win '98, Win-Me, Win 2000, NT, Commodore Basic, OS9 etc.

With one line from 'the loaf' being the only feedback on VPF I should probably take the hint.

Crikey, I even got a reply from PacDude here. I think it's the first time he has replied to anything I've written in over two years. Unfortunately I must not have been clear enough in my post as I didn't think they would have needed Randy's input at all, but organised it through VPF.

Poor Pheonixx is one I think that has hit the nail on the head, and is getting persecuted for believing common sense would be welcomed amongst a group who has a vested interest in not "Rocking the Boat", no matter what.

If your reading this Pheonixx, just give up man. You'll never get them to listen to reason. And those that do agree with you probably don't want to be regarded as pariahs, so wouldn't post their support anyway. (I have posted my thoughts there before, but no one listens to me thankfully )

I think I'll join the majority and roll over and play dead in the hope that VP continues to work for a long time to come, and we don't see this ...

 

[StevOz]

Err, where did you read that the fix was for XP SP2 only?

That was merely one of the goals of the fix, if this is to become the offical VP beta then it must work on all MS OSes and be backwardly compatable.

If you have read the thread, Randy has changed the fix to work with all MS OSes, Windows2000 seems to be the only problem OS atm, though there are other new problems, such as balls rolling up ramps.

 

[tiltjlp]

Yes Panda, I did indeed misinterpret your post. I haven't done much testing with fix four, but what tables I have used it with, I haven't had any problems for the start, meaning the first fix. But I haven't used it to work an any of my projects yet, although I plan to soon. I use SP1 and don't plan on installing SP2. But with Randy not commincation much information, I doubt if your suggestion would be of much use, although I do see it as being worthwhile.

John

 

[PacDude]

Exactly, Steve. The "fixed" version is going to need to work for EVERYONE if it's to replace the current 6.1, not just XP users. Call us Win98 users lamers or whatever, but blindly supporting M$'s latest OS upgrades when not needed is dumb, IMO. The only thing I find desirable in XP period is more stability (but at the cost of incompatability, it seems, especially with SP2).

As for "rocking the boat" panda, you tell me what good it will do to tick Randy off DEMANDING he give us his source code and I'll go rock it myself. I brought it up in an e-mail to him. I was the first to ask him about where he's been and where VP is going. Do you think we should look the guy up and beat him up until he gives us the source code or what? Ever hear of beating a dead horse to death? It's pointless. You can't make Randy do anything, but badgering him enough times might just get the XP fix tossed out. I've felt that way myself on more than one occasion. I don't care for ingrates. I doubt Randy does either. Bublehead's offer is a far better approach as he's not demanding anything and is offering to help.

In any case, I don't think we need a small group of beta testers as much a small elected group to represent the best ideas to try and address in these fixes. If Randy can only fix a few things, what few things MOST need fixed (other than the XP crash)? For example, I'd say the reel glitches (by graphic card) and memory trashing are the two biggest bugs that need addressed in VP.

 

[panda55]

Err, where did you read that the fix was for XP SP2 only?

That was merely one of the goals of the fix, if this is to become the offical VP beta then it must work on all MS OSes and be backwardly compatable.

If you have read the thread, Randy has changed the fix to work with all MS OSes, Windows2000 seems to be the only problem OS atm, though there are other new problems, such as balls rolling up ramps.

SteveOz, I was basing my observation on the first post in Randy's thread,

VP and XP SP2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just installed SP2 recently and as people have noted, it causes VP to crash when a you return to the editor from playing a table. It will also crash when undoing a change to a textbox (and possibly other elements that have fonts in them.) It appears that SP2 adds some increased error checking to the OLE IFont object that VP was not prepared for.

I have a fix for it and will try to get out a new exe for testing as soon as I can.

- Randy

Whilst in time it may have become an all-encumbering update, the initial reason for a 'fix' was XP/SP2. All the other operating-systems were unaffected at that time. It was only after using the fix not meant for those systems did those problems arise.

I realize as soon as Randy mentioned extra tools, updated editor etc. the majority of table creators would want to implement them, no matter what operating system or version they were using. Understandably so. But also, at that time, erroneously so, imo.

Maybe any additions, tweaks, updates should have, in hindsight been added to v6.1 without the XP2 fixes in place.

Of course this is only supposition on my part and has no bearing whatsoever to what Randy has in mind.

 

[panda55]

PacDude wrote ...

Exactly, Steve. The "fixed" version is going to need to work for EVERYONE if it's to replace the current 6.1, not just XP users. Call us Win98 users lamers or whatever, but blindly supporting M$'s latest OS upgrades when not needed is dumb, IMO. The only thing I find desirable in XP period is more stability (but at the cost of incompatability, it seems, especially with SP2).

I agree totally that any and all additional features should work on all (or as many as possible) operating systems. I'm sure Linux and Mac users would like that to include them too, for that matter. :)

I run XP - SP1. I have yet to upgrade to SP2 as I read of the problems that could be encountered with programs like VP (in the VP Forums, in fact) and decided that VP was too important to risk with installing the update - at least straight away.
I also run a second OS on my machine, Win-Me (blech!) for backwards compatabilty, just in case.

As for "rocking the boat" panda, you tell me what good it will do to tick Randy off DEMANDING he give us his source code and I'll go rock it myself. I brought it up in an e-mail to him. I was the first to ask him about where he's been and where VP is going. Do you think we should look the guy up and beat him up until he gives us the source code or what? Ever hear of beating a dead horse to death? It's pointless. You can't make Randy do anything, but badgering him enough times might just get the XP fix tossed out. I've felt that way myself on more than one occasion. I don't care for ingrates. I doubt Randy does either. Bublehead's offer is a far better approach as he's not demanding anything and is offering to help.

Which is exactly one of the reasons I put forward my idea in the first place, to take the above scenario out of the equation. And Bubblehead would have been a perfect choice as one of those elected.

In any case, I don't think we need a small group of beta testers as much a small elected group to represent the best ideas to try and address in these fixes.

Maybe Beta Testers wasn't quite the right title, but I didn't think my other alternatives were appropriate either. The titles of 'The Chosen', 'The Upper Echelon' or 'Those with some considerable standing and support within the community' just weren't going to cut it, somehow. :D
But that was probably more of what was intended.

I think my main point was and remains, and I quote ...
Let's try and be a little more organised and get the best result for all concerned

 

[Mitchell]

Hmmm...

Ok. What about me now?

I'm board when Randy doesn't talk to the post. He just like all the pinball complanies and pinball artists.

All he had to say is that all he want is the feeback on how the fixes works on our computers. Speed, graphics and the script. No questions that he want to hear about it. Makes me wonder for myself about him just like the pinball complanies and pinball artists don't want to hear all our questions and he want to hear the answers only.

I don't think Randy going to very last long there. Just like the pinball complanies and pinball artists just walk in and out the other end.

All dickheads do this kind of thing. Looking at the people that aren't rich and step all over them. Just like most of the hoilywood peoples would do.

Black also a dickhead.

As for BubbleHead. He is so dum trying to get Randy scorces or codes. He also a dickhead and greedy.

They all greedy peoples. :x

 

[Mitchell]

Fuck.

Now I'm talking crazy and stupid.

 

[PacDude]

Is this the Funhouse?

In any case, the issue is still to get Randy to agree to any of that. As it stands, he pretty much ignores anyone and everything except what he chooses not to ignore (very little). So until Randy is willing to discuss such things, it's moot, IMO.

I just remember the thread from WAY back (2+ years ago) of things people wanted to see in VP7 and it was like the biggest thread there was at the time and some of us figured that might have scared Randy off in the first place (even Black started ignoring it all and even being spiteful and telling me he was NOT going to include features that I asked for (probably because he thought it was amusing). Some of us thought a small group presenting the best ideas would work better, but Randy never reappeared to even approach him with hte idea and Black made it clear he would only work on features that he wanted so until now there seemed no point. But since Randy has made it at least somewhat clear he's only got time to work on bug fixes, I see little point. Personally, I just want the bloody reel glitch fixed so I can have 17+ frames in animations, etc. It's very limiting with toys to use 16 or less (depending on size) or else be forced to explain why people have to shut off Dirct Draw. But then with most (if not all) of Kurt's tables requring it, people are proably getting used to it.

Randy loved High Speed, supposedly. I e-mailed him about my High Speed table a month or two before he returned. He never replied. I have more upgrades in mind (new wall lights and a realistic wood frame, for example) and it would be cool to talk to Randy about various features, but he has my e-mail address and if he doesn't want to talk, well hey I can't make him. Black didn't like me so if Randy is Black (now or always was) that would explain why he doesn't want to talk (to anyone). If not, well then it's anyone's guess. I think Mitchell is the only one Randy specifically even mentioned by name in that thread. He might have better luck getting a reply from Randy.

Say Mitchell, you're not really Randy in disguise are you? :D

 

[Mitchell]

RE: Say Mitchell, you're not really Randy in disguise are you?

I will hate to be anyway.

 

[tiltjlp]

Mitch, what is with you, pal. Just because Randy doesn't answer any questions doesn't make him evil. And what's the deal with rich people being greedy. I'm sure some are and some aren't just like folks who aren't rich. And in my opinion, although I seldom use such words, anyone who is always calling everyone a dickhead is a dickhead. What has you so upset and angry lately? You used to be a nice friendly fellow.

John

 

[Mitchell]

RE: You used to be a nice friendly fellow.

I still am.

I just don't like anyone that doesn't reply or don't say a word anymore.

Like someone said, if they don't reply then they careless to not reply.

 

[tiltjlp]

But if Randy were to answer all the questions you and everyone else has and would continue to ask, when would he have time to work on VP? It's his right not to answer if he decides no to, and it doesn't make him good or evil, just quiet maybe.

John