Drop-a-Card WIP

[bob]

OK, I'll start this off with a little explanation about this WIP.... I've had the feeling to make a table recently, but I needed some inspiration.

A member at VPF was asking about help to add some 1 point scoring and 10 point scoring for some walls.... I'm not to good at teaching someone how to do things with words, so I thought I'd look at the table. There are 2 versions at IRP, one by Leo Wanker and one by JPH. Leo's version looks good, but it must be an early table as there are kickers under all the targets and the table plays a little jerky on my pc. JPH's version is also an early version, but it didn't have those kickers at every target, so I thought it would be an easier table to use the script from as I hate labeling table objects and scripting a table from scratch.

I then loaded up Popotte's FP table and it looks great! It has beautiful table and plastic graphics. I then decided I'd like to import them into a VP table. I PM'd Popotte an he told me I could use the graphics. I then PM'd JPH and asked if I could use his script and he also gave me permission.

The next thing I did was to export the graphics from Popotte's FP table into a folder and just like that, most of my work is already done. I then exported the table blueprint from his table.

Wow, you talk about making it easy :) I then throw Popotte's blueprint into JPH's table and start realigning walls and table size to fit all of his hard work, then throw the table playfield graphic in there and in a couple hours, I have a WIP screenshot.

I'm only adjusting walls right now, so the bumpers look funny as I just pasted a bunch of walls there from my ASM table. Same with the targets and I haven't added any new graphics to them yet, just the new table playfield graphic has been added thus far.

 

[bob]

I wanted to work a little bit on the plastics.... Here's the left slingshot. I'll probably try to sharpen or make bolder or something to the graphics at some point, but not now.

I used JPSalas' ramp constructed post and a ramp ring around the plastic to simulate a clear edge and I used the layered rubber effects that I've seen in JP's tables and Eala's I think. I'll try to mention the people who's work I'm using, so if anyone wants any credit, then let me know if you made or created something as I only have a memory that coincides with the tables I've played or seen the work used in.. JP has giving permission to actually copy his posts.

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

I'm thrilled that Drop-A-Card is going to be updated and those images look very nice!

We used to play this in the arcade and it was very fun, i collected a lot of images back in 02 and have attached a zip file of some that were sent to me by an owner. There are images of 3 and 5 ball rulecards and a blueprint, i used to have a smaller version of the blueprint for my avatar. I'm going to change my current avatar as a salute to you bob, when i discovered VP this is the first machine that i looked for!

 

[bob]

Thanks for the pics Jon! Real pics are always helpful, because you can see what & where & why something goes somewhere.

OK, I finished another plastic, added the round target, straightened the other targets there and I also made a hex nut with a small hex wall and with a tiny bumper top popping through the top. :) It's always fun to use VP objects rather than always resorting to reels or decals.

This last work would have taken about 15 minutes in FP, it took me about 4-5 hours to do what you see there and I like to think I know what I'm doing. :) I'll still have to do some more minor finishing off stuff there later.

 

[Popotte]

Well, it was one of my first tables, so graphics are not really good. But, with the time, I made some progress. Maybe one day, I'll redraw Drop A Card.
Bob, if you want pics of the real machine, no problem.

For X-MASS, the BG...

 

[bob]

Well, it was one of my first tables, so graphics are not really good. But, with the time, I made some progress. Maybe one day, I'll redraw Drop A Card.
Bob, if you want pics of the real machine, no problem.

I don't need anymore pics, unless you have something closeup of the little white plastics that are next to the lanes at the top. I made a couple with photoshop, but they aren't great, you didn't need them, because FP has them included with the program. Your graphics are excellent! The apron image is amazing!

This will be one of those closeup tables, so the cabinet will be on the backdrop and the lockbar is a decal stuck on the backdrop of the editor.

 

[bob]

Worked on the bumpers today, not great, but better than those vp ones and added the cabinet rails...

 

[bob]

I just noticed this table was made with the shivaEngine.

'Drop-A-Card (Gottlieb 1971) Powered by shivaEngine (Thanks all)
'Ported to Visual Pinball by (JonPurpleHaze) 6/2002

 

[Friday the Thirteenth]

I hope you still look at the wall scoring thread at VPForum in case posting in PNForum doesn't work out for me.

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

I just noticed this table was made with the shivaEngine.

'Drop-A-Card (Gottlieb 1971) Powered by shivaEngine (Thanks all)
'Ported to Visual Pinball by (JonPurpleHaze) 6/2002

Yes, I'm the culprit....

Your progress looks excellent and i also wanted to Thank popotte for another excellent version of Drop-A-Card!

Last edited by bob : Today at 03:21 AM. Reason: corrested spelling

You crack me up....

 

[bob]

I'm not sure about the bells sounds in this table, I have sounds I've collected from everywhere, but none of them say Gottlieb.... Does anyone have Gottlieb bell wave sounds? I also noticed when I played Popotte's FP version, there are no Bell scoring sounds, I didn't look at the script and I haven't looked to see if there are sound libraries available for FP, so if there is, maybe someone could explain it to me, since I'm pretty much an FP dummy.

I also noticed that VP8 makes the table play completely different.... I hadn't really used VP8, but it's supposed to be the latest version and I think people who Download the VIP are also getting VP8 with it. This is a real problem for me, at he moment anyway, how can I make a table play reasonably well for 2 versions of VP that play so differently.

Welcome to Friday The Thirteenth, he's the guy that got me interested enough to look at this table. So FTT (Friday The Thirteenth) you were saying that the very top center triangle plastic has no slingshots on the backside?

 

[bob]

Moving right along.... I added a couple more plastics. I found that I had lowered the center of the bumpers from 72 to 65 and that raised the table to make the backdrop cabinet too close, it took me awhile to figure that out. I added an invisible wall on the outside to push the table back down as 72 was, and is now again, the highest wall on the table, this is how we get the "closeup" look and a nice big ball, instead of those BB size balls I've seen on some tables.

 

[Friday the Thirteenth]

about top triangle not having sling shot, and more

Hello Bob,
Good thing you asked about top triangle having no sling shots on top side. That is an under statement. The top triangle has no sling shots at all. It is not supposed to even score on the top side. The only part that is supposed to score is the side with drop targets on it.
The whole DROP-A-CARD has only two sling shots. They are located near the bottom of the playfield next to the flippers. Clicking on options that gets the wall numbers on the other walls will get "LeftSlingShot" "RightSlingShot" when they are clicked on. Here's what I just posted at VPForums just in case it might help.:Hello,
For starters, I'm sorry for whatever inconvenience the errors I am about to correct have caused.
I have played hundreds if not thousands of games on a POP-A-CARD I used to have but zero games on my DROP-A-CARDs.
I just decided I had better dig out one of my DROP-A-CARDs and check it. When I looked at the wiring diagram, the color coding on the wires, and used an ohm meter I found out walls 2, 3, 4, 5, and 9 are ten point scoring with ten point bells and the only walls with one point scoring and one point bells are 6 and 11. The only parts of walls 6 and 11 that should have scoring are the sides facing the pop bumpers. The side of wall 6 facing the arch will need some kind of barrier wall to keep it from scoring. The side of wall 11 facing the arch will have the rebound rubber for a barrier. The only parts of walls 2, 3, and 9 that should score are the sides where the drop targets are. The other parts of them need barriers to keep them from scoring. The only parts of walls 4 and 5 that should score are the sides facing the pop bumpers. The other parts of them may need barriers to keep them from scoring. The barriers should have bounce to them because they are rubbers in the real DAC pin.
I just played 2001 and got reminded about another feature it has I would like to see in the DROP-A-CARD. When exited it saves all the leftover replays for the next time it is played. As for bells, whether or not there is any file marked Gottlieb bells, I know Gottlieb bells are available. The bells used in the 2001 sound as much like Gottlieb bells as any, and all three different pitches seem to be used correctly for the three different digits, highest pitch for 1 point, medium pitch for 10 point, and lowest pitch for 100 point. I just played the 2001 again and got reminded of another nice feature. The time from old ball hitting the drain to the time the new ball is at the shooter and ready to shoot is a realistic simulation of a real pin. Seems like a lot can be learned from studying the 2001 visual pin. There seems to be some choice in bells and sounds. The JPH DAC seems to have Gottlieb bells but not all of them where they should be. The 2001 seems to have them all.

 

[bob]

Hello Bob,
Good thing you asked about top triangle having no sling shots on top side. That is an under statement. The top triangle has no sling shots at all. It is not supposed to even score on the top side. The only part that is supposed to score is the side with drop targets on it.
The whole DROP-A-CARD has only two sling shots.

I'm calling everything the arrows are pointing to slingshots, as they are adding points and slingshoting the ball away from the area. I can see these in the picture, but I can't see behind the very top triangle plastic. Are you saying some of those don't slingshot the ball away? Are they just giving points?

 

[shiva]

Yes Bob, only A and B have slingshots. The others are simple leaf switches, which is just for points. Quite common for Gottlieb EM's.

 

[Friday the Thirteenth]

more about sound

Hello Bob,
I stopped by to mention that the best bell sounds and other sounds I found for DROP-A-CARD(same year and manufacturer1971 Gottlieb) are in the 2001 by Robair. Another sound his 2001 has that would make the DROP-A-CARD more authentic is the sound the ball makes going along the arch at the top of the playfield if it can be started by a trigger located far enough up in the shooter alley or in the arch so it happens when the ball is actually going through the arch. In this 2001 it starts before the ball gets to the arch even if the ball shooter isn't pulled back far enough for the ball to get to the arch but I'm guessing it is possible to locate a trigger for this sound up in the arch so it doesn't start until the ball actually gets there. Another feature used in this 2001 that would make the DROP-A-CARD more authentic:The sound the ball shooter makes when pulled back and released after game over when there is no ball in it to shoot is present in this 2001 making it sound even more authentic. Maybe Robair would tell you his source for the authenticising sounds he used in this pin.
I noticed you already got a reply about the absence of slingshots except for two places in the DROP-A-CARD. One of reasons I find the DROP-A-CARD so interesting is the opportunity for the player to determine the path of the ball to a greater extent and the machine determines the path of the ball to a lesser extent due to the fact there is less actuating stuff on the playfield and less stuff on the playfield that gets in the way of the ball. It allows a wider variety of possibilities for the motion of the ball making it possible to play a lot more games without getting tired of it. Pins I used to think I liked a lot because of more active stuff on the playfield turned out to be the ones I got tired of and got rid of, something that is unlikely to happen with a playfield as open as the DROP-A-CARD. I had a Dimension(same playfield layout as 2001 but add-a-ball with four kickers and five kickout holes and a four target cluster near the middle of the playfield where it gets in the way of the balls) that I spent a hundred hours or more enthusiastically reconditioning that I didn't play enough to get the rubbers dirty before I got tired of it and sold it. That didn't happen with the POP-A-CARD(same playfield layout as DROP-A-CARD) I played hundreds if not thousands of games on before I replaced it with a DROP-A-CARD(same playfield layout but replay).

 

[bob]

Thanks shiva, I get the idea now... I just need to figure out the elasticity settings, but they seem different in VP8 compared to VP7, so I'm a little confused there.

Thanks Friday the Thirteenth, I'll add some new sounds, like a plunger pullback sound and a ballroll sound when you launch the ball.

 

[bob]

Until you mentioned that Pop a Card and Drop a Card were the nearly the same, I didn't know that.....

Bendigo's version of Pop a Card could have saved me a lot of time, especially since I'm an add-a-ball type guy.

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

Thanks for all of the info, very interesting!

I found some additional information from the table owner i was in contact with back in 02 and have quoted it here in case it helps at all:

I'm glad I can be of help! I know how hard it is to try and reconstruct
things from memory. Especially when it has been more than 25 years ago! In
regards to your questions:

- MATCH does not appear anywhere. When a match occurs the only indication
that you get is the historic knock for the free credit.
- It would probably be a good idea to put MATCH somewhere around where the
match numbers are.
- Picture of the apron is attached. Guess I thought the apron was the
cabinet.
- In regards to the 3 vs. 5 ball: I would probably default to 5 and have a
key to switch it. In reality you have to go inside and move a pin to change
it.
- However you want to credit me is fine. Using my name is OK too. Please
don't use my e-mail addy.
- The lights are not turned off after the game is over (unless a tilt
occurred). They stay in the same state as when the game ended.
- The skill shot at the top (left or right) is random AT THE START OF GAME
ONLY. I have for years tried to figure out how that works, but it must be
some trigger on the playfield or something.
- The 4 rollovers operate as you say. 2 are lit initially (the top one
matches the skill shot light that's lit). When you roll over one they
switch (including the skill shot). They also switch whenever you get to the
next hundred in the score. For instance, it's possible that with a score of
99 you roll over one and they switch (score to 199), the ball then hits a
bumper by the flippers, scores 1 point to 200 and they switch again. The
exception to this is when you score 50 or 500 points (through the lanes at
top and bottom or drop targets) - they do not switch. Also, the side
targets just above the exit lanes operate in this fashion too. The one that
is lit is on the same side as the skill shot that is lit. They switch back
and forth.
- The top bumpers above and diagonal from the pop bumpers score 10 points.
- Drop targets score 50 points.
- Also, the special lights are turned on after you hit all the targets. I'm
not exactly sure how they operate or what "special" you get, but our machine
does not do anything when it is lit and you go through those lanes. All 4
of them light. They are red.
- The pop bumpers are always off until you hit all the targets to light
them. They do not flash when you hit them.

Also, here are some other "interesting" scoring opportunities:

- It is possible to knock down 2 drop targets at a time. Just hit right
between them.
- Sometimes when the ball is coming down from the top (or up from the
bottom), it is possible to knock down 2 or 3 of the drop targets from the
side target banks. Never seen it hit all 4 - the ball probably doesn't have
enough energy.
- To get 100/1000 points quick: get the ball up the side lanes when they are
worth 50/500 (score 50/500 going up and 50/500 going down). This is
difficult and doesn't happen very often.
- Quick 400 points: hit a side target when lit, pass over both lower
rollovers (they both will be lit), then hit the other side target (will be
lit)! Cool shot, again doesn't happen very often.

Regarding the sounds, i used to have a big collection of sounds but i can't find it...
(edit: see next post, i found the dang sounds!)

There are some sound packs on this site, might want to check this page out, look for the files, Robs Pinball Sound Pack and Sounds Once @ shivaSite .
http://www.pinballnirvana.com/index...sdownload&sid=6&min=40&orderby=titleA&show=20
You might also find sounds at Bendigo's site:
http://www.freewebs.com/bendigovp/index.htm

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

Found an old Gottlieb sounds zip file and many others on my hard drive...

 

[bob]

Thanks for the sounds Jon.... I have every sound I've ever seen available, but I didn't have any that were labeled Gottlieb sounds, so I didn't know which sound came from which machine. :)

That's a pretty good discription of how the scoring works also.... I haven't really looked at that stuff yet.

 

[bob]

Working my way up I did remake those 4 plastics near the lanes at the top, I looked and looked for something to use there, but I'm happy with these that I made. I also added the ball groove in the plunger lane, I made that with photoshop and it looks convincing enough to me. I also made new letters for the targets, they have shading to appear like the letters are cut out of the plastic, but it doesn't show up that well in VP.

 

[StevOz]

Looking good Bob, pop bumpers seem too small to me?

http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=735&picno=35945&zoom=1

http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=735&picno=708

 

[Friday the Thirteenth]

alternating

Looking at a post from JPH of a letter from a table owner in 02 I got the idea to check the wiring diagram of one of my DROP-A-CARDs.
Every alternation that occurs is determined by the position of the 0-9 unit via the alternating relay.
The reason why the top skill shots are lit randomly at the start of the game is that they are lit according to what position the 0-9 unit was left in at the end of the previous game.
On 5 ball play the 0-9 unit advances every time the hundreds unit advances either causing the alternating relay to go from off to on or on to off and switching all the alternating features.
The reason for the exception of 50 and 500 points is that when anything worth 50 or 500 points is hit the 50 or 500 point relay causes the scoring motor to run to rack up those scores and whenever the scoring motor runs, a normally closed switch on the scoring motor is opened for the time it is running and this switch disconnects the 0-9 unit actuating coil along with targets, rollovers, rollover buttons, 1 point contacts, and ten point contacts so none of these things work while 50 or 500 points are being racked up on the reels. 1, 10, and 100 point scoring can't work while 50 or 500 points are being racked up. 50 points and 500 points can work simultaneously if the ball moves fast enough from one to the other.
On 3 ball play the same thing happens except the 0-9 unit is advanced along with the tens unit instead of the hundreds unit.
The oversize flippers on the JPH DAC make it pretty easy to test all the hundred point scorers on the playfield for alternation triggering with the result that I found out the 100 point when lit pop bumpers are the only 100 point scorers that don't work the alternation like they should. It was also pretty easy to find out that the rerplay unit stops at 15. That's ok for now. It saves having to create test balls and when everything else has been fixed I can put the right size flippers on it if the new DROP-A-CARD that's being created still has oversize ones. I am guessing there is nothing in VP software that allows putting decals on moving parts like on the flippers to make them look like Gottlieb flippers. I am also guessing that a random numbers generator is the closest thing to a 0-9 unit that can be made with VP software. If the VP software does allow creating a 0-9 unit that actually moves through the numbers like the real one please advise and I will do further checking of one of my DROP-A-CARDS to find out the relationship of match numbers to lit targets and rollovers and rollover buttons. The 0-9 units I have looked at move in reverse and the one in DROP-A-CARD likely does too.

 

[bob]

Friday13th, that was a little hard for me to follow, as I'm not very familiar with the workings of a real pinball, just this simulated stuff. Plus, I haven't really messed with the script other than walls that score and drop.

The targets? They do reset after you make a special? I'll be making it that way as it would be silly to rack up games that easily?

Steve, how about the size of these bumpers? I don't know how I'm going to light them up yet, since they are pretty bright, but they didn't look to good darker. Maybe I'll use some yellow to light them up.... I'm not sure yet. I don't think they come on until you drop all of the targets, I can't remember, I could scroll up and find it, but it's not important right now.

I worked on the backdrop.... I really like the scoring setup I created with shadows and stuff, makes those scoring reels look more real than a picture of a real table (to me, anyway) I like to move all around the table when I'm making one, just to mix it up a bit.