Farfalla discussion

[Isaac Sauvage]

So you are starting a flame of your own?

I try to err on the side of telling people what they need to hear, every once in a while.

If it covers me in horse manure here and there, I'm willing bear the stench.

 

[Paolo]

So you are starting a flame of your own?

@GeorgeH

You are a good person, you know me even if not personally,is true,I will be a particular person, but I have not said bad words to anyone publicly.

The consultant, he's not trying to turn on a flame, he's trying to detonate a bomb! he told me "GFY" = "Go fuck yourself".....you all have a good consultant here in PN, as polite as it stinks, and who sends people to"GFY".
He is trying to instigate me, to make me mistake to speak brutally, in order to have a pretext something in his hands to use against me, and referring it to @JonPurpleHaze .......... but consultant I answer you in the most polite way I can

The "mister" consultant has been used to being the boss here in PN for years, and therefore can afford to insult people with "GFY".
but I do not let myself be carried away by him, trapped by him, I am a man of peace, not of war ..... sometimes maybe I exaggerate like everyone else, but I don't say bad words to people.

I try to err on the side of telling people what they need to hear, every once in a while.

I don't need to smell your stink!! you don't exist for me.....I know what you are!!!

If it covers me in horse manure here and there, I'm willing bear the stench.

be careful not to eat the horse manure, or you choke, or fill your brain.

with this I'm done to closed with you, don't feel obliged to answer me or to insult me again, because I don't want to smell your stench anymore.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

lol

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Alright alright...
let's say you could magically transport me to Sicily, Paolo.

How could I do better, in future?

 

[Paolo]

let's say you could magically transport me to Sicily, Paolo.

I understand,you want to bicker,but not I. you find it fun to tease me, but I don't .
you also question my country.......this shows what kind of human you are.but I don't want to say it, I won't give you this opportunity, but I leave it, to others to judge,what you are.

listen, stay in your house,with your mental fantasies.do not dare to think of my Sicily anymore.

How could I do better, in future?

forget it,you would not be able, you are too suffocated!!!

 

[Paolo]

you have succeeded in your intent, consultant!!!!

 

[GeorgeH]

Paolo,

You carry things too far sometimes but in my opinion Isaac Sauvage is clearly in the wrong. Isaac is probably happy for you to leave but I would like you to stay because I value your opinion even though you go too far sometimes. I am thinking about leaving myself.

George

 

[NitroNimbus]

Wow!! shit's gettin' real now.
Is this going to be televised! Can I get it on Pay Per View.
Like Logan Paul vs Floyd Mayweather.
Mouth vs Talent....Mmmm....
And the winner is, NOBODY......
But entertaining none the less...

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Paolo,

You carry things too far sometimes but in my opinion Isaac Sauvage is clearly in the wrong. Isaac is probably happy for you to leave but I would like you to stay because I value your opinion even though you go too far sometimes. I am thinking about leaving myself.

George

Well, feel free to call me out where appropriate, George. I certainly don't mind.

Also want to point out that you had multiple opportunities to make suggestions or give feedback about this stuff, and I barely recall hearing a peep from you over the months, so I don't know what to tell you about that.

Anyway, what Paolo's discussion with Furio showed me is that this is much less of a language issue than it is a communication issue. Such that, until Paolo realises that the problem is mostly on his end, and tries to make a better effort there, I don't think these communication issues will be going away anytime soon.

The real problem is this-- he's either highly aggravated or driven off 3-4 authors at this point, and that just doesn't fly with me. That means that on a site that largely doesn't delete, largely doesn't moderate discussion, and rarely hands out infractions, something's gotta give in situations like this.

You also have the convenience of looking at this in hindsight and saying "oh no, Ike was way out of line there! how terrible & unprofessional" but let's not forget that when I was an admin, I spent many hours of my time and effort attempting to clean up problems he'd created, attempting to be friendly with him, attempting to patiently explain in as many different ways as possible how things might improve, and so forth.

Have you tried that yourself? I don't know, but I know -I- did. Unfortunately, I'm really not sure what what use it all was, just as I'm unsure what else there is left to try. The guy chronically doesn't understand things well, and I'm not sure even pays attention to what's said, anyway. Other than innocuous little things that regularly cause him to implode, of course. So... circling back to the Furio discussion, that suddenly reconfirmed things for me in a way that previous squabbles had not.

As a consultant with no real responsibilities other than to help the site with menial work here and there & to give suggestions as the spirit moves me, I grant myself more latitude to express myself. So-- sorry, not sorry. If you have a better remedy or choose to leave, then I guess that's just the way things go, huh?

Lastly-- personally I don't think Paolo's a bad guy, and I actually like him for the most part. But his behavior here just isn't working, and you can take that to the bank.

 

[Paolo]

you keep stalking me .... you have serious mental problems!!!
you forced me to do something I didn't want, leave the site, and delete all my stuff (resources, wip's, etc, etc) for your mania to pursue me, and exercise your power in a dictatorial way.
meanwhile you are in a terrible evaluation error(I'll explain below), this proves that you have serious identity problems .... you think you are the boss here in PN, and so you do and say what you want.

Anyway, what Paolo's discussion with Furio showed me is that this is much less of a language issue than it is a communication issue.

my discussion with furio was in Italian, in an almost peaceful way, and you didn't understand shit about what I was saying to furio, and you closed the thread.....why you did get in the way, closing the thread? there were no serious reasons for that....you could have asked (to me)what the real argument was, before exercising your fucking power/authority !!
you defined my discussion with furio a crap, but how dare you? you have the crap inside your brain.I wanted to understand what the with furio problem was, because he replied in an out-of-logic way to my very first comment, how the fuck do you do the translation?

The real problem is this-- he's either highly aggravated or driven off 3-4 authors at this point, and that just doesn't fly with me. That means that on a site that largely doesn't delete, largely doesn't moderate discussion, and rarely hands out infractions, something's gotta give in situations like this.

what the fuck are you saying? but really you say? you have serious problems.......but I'm not even going to answer you about that.

You also have the convenience of looking at this in hindsight and saying "oh no, Ike was way out of line there! how terrible & unprofessional" but let's not forget that when I was an admin, I spent many hours of my time and effort attempting to clean up problems he'd created, attempting to be friendly with him, attempting to patiently explain in as many different ways as possible how things might improve, and so forth.

Have you tried that yourself? I don't know, but I know -I- did.

George....he doesn't need to look further, he knows me, don't involve decent people like George in your mental illness.......
and now you consultant, but of what? to send people to GFY?, YOU have detonated the bomb!!!

but what problems have I created? only your sick mind makes you think ... I had a little discussion with steve (who will have an unfinished business with him) but this did not lead me to create problems , just a bit the occasional divergence of that moment,that I certainly don't have to explain to you.

Did I send people to GFY, like you do? Did I spit on someone? Did I kill someone? what? I have always done my best for FP / BAM, that is: tables, bam functions, help to other people, various explanations ... etc etc, and you now talk to me about creating problems?

The guy chronically doesn't understand things well

are you crazy ????, Really???but who did you mistake me for? Ohhh, look if you keep to offend me in this way, I'll take the plane and I'll come knocking on your door, on my future vacation.

and I'm not sure even pays attention to what's said,

here you said well, you are not sure, and this leads you to make errors of assessments, especially if the discussion with furio was in Italian, which you could never understand.
you are completely in mental error, I pay close attention to what I say, write and read.

As a consultant with no real responsibilities other than to help the site with menial work here and there & to give suggestions as the spirit moves me, I grant myself more latitude to express myself. So-- sorry, not sorry. If you have a better remedy or choose to leave, then I guess that's just the way things go, huh?

you are not able to be a consultant, I'm sorry ..... yes I saw what freedom to express yourself you use, certainly that of sending people to GFY.

Lastly-- personally I don't think Paolo's a bad guy, and I actually like him for the most part. But his behavior here just isn't working, and you can take that to the bank.

you don't charm me, you know? you are too stifled by your mastery in this site, of course I am not a bad boy, on the contrary ... I contributed a lot on FP / BAM, that you with your mania of mastery in this site, you killed me

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Paolo, I was responding to George's statement above, since he mentioned me by name. That is my right, and it doesn't mean I'm "stalking" you.

And no-- I'm not forcing you to make any particular decision here, and I have no special powers at PN other than to do mod-work whenever I notice the staff hasn't gotten around to something. If you look through my posts since I became a consultant, that should become abundantly obvious.

Furio was in fact the one who requested an intervention from me, which is why I was forced to come in and act. He was obviously not happy about whatever you had to say, and later requested this side-thread be deleted, in fact. Anyway, what I did at the time was to translate everything and then make a recommendation to whatever staff was present, later to help George with splitting the rest of the off-topic posts in to this thread.

If you want to stay here at PN and carry on, that's fine with me. If you want to stay and just put me on ignore, that's fine too. If you want to participate less often, why not? If you decide to leave for good, that's up to you. Understand that I'm not "forcing you" to do anything. AFAIK you're a grown man who can decide for himself how he wants to handle these things.

As I say, the problem I keep seeing is that you have a way of getting aggravated by peoples' comments and in turn aggravating them yourself. You read some particular words in their message, get hot & offended, and then put the other person on the spot with BOLD LETTERS and semi-ultimatums. Well, Paolo, dude... that's just not good netiquette for any number of reasons.

As for getting on other authors nerves'-- Polygame (Steve) indeed messaged me last year that he was essentially shocked and offended by how you attacked him so quickly. As for Nitronimbus, I recently noticed you badgering him about putting in the right tags and prefixes and stuff until he threw his hands in the air and stopped sharing here. Furio, as I said, didn't like what you had to say and requested it be removed.

There are actually 1-2 more examples I'm forgetting the names of, but the point is-- you seem to keep doing this with people, never really altering your behavior. This is a problem.

In fact, it's been around 1.5 years of this same behavior here, hence my decision to 'rattle your cage' as above. Believe me... that is pretty much option Z out of my list. I would always prefer to be polite, positive and helpful where possible, but that clearly wasn't working with you, I'm sorry to say.

 

[Paolo]

I know, that you're answering George, and I'm answering you again (and I'm fed up), cause you keep mentioning me,paolo here,paolo there.

your real problem, given that you consider yourself a big boss here, in PN, and that you exercise your power/authority in an absolute way, before you close a thread, or do other bullshit, is: first of all....you to do give a good example, always be polite don't say bad words like GFY , even if people insult you, then, you must be a partial judge, and not an absolute one, you must hear two people not only, furio, or polygame, or others ... but also the other person, that is, me, in this case.

you always talk that I create problems, caused by my poor English, or worse that I do not understand anything, and then you think that I start to create problems ..... no, no, no!!

if I take the discussion too far, such as with Furio (in Italian moreover), it is because I know that I am right in the things I say and write ... you cannot understand the writing in Italian, even if you do the translation with google, because you are not used to using it like me, I know how the translator works, I have been using it for years, and I know that many times it does not translate well, what a person really wants to say ..... here your mistake, you did not understand very well, and closed the thread, and since it was the furio thread, the logical thing for you think is; simply... that I was creating problems for you. ...... but no, you still do the translation and read a lot well my very first comment on furio's thread ,perhaps you understand the logical links of the whole discussion

but I want to help you, (I suggested to furio remember it), but he bothered him that I mentioned the version of VPX and my version of Fp, in fact he answered in a very out of logic, in Italian, that you, can't understand it ... .. and of here I had to continue to discuss with furio, but if you go to see I answered with questions first, see below


Where do you see the crap? As you defined it, Where do you see that I create problems?

I repeat, that Furio, has completely turned the omelette, do you understand this way of saying(in black)?
Because he didn't like it, that I mentioned the version of VPX or my version of Fp ... then, I ask you consultant, what fuck does, furio that have to question my sentence that I put in my tables? that of WARNING .......I wonder what it means, what furio is using my warning quote at my tables, to do or say what? And here then I'm pissed.

if furio asked your intervention, you have to stay to hear me too, before closing the thread......Because you didn't understand the real problems of furio.

ok, with Steve(polygame) maybe I exaggerated, but I have a good reason ..... I'm not here to prolong me in this .... with nitro, we are in excellent relationships, we are friends, let's talk in private, there is no problem with me , it's very well,and his can to confirm it to you .... you understand and react as usual,( I create problem...the your is a mania) do you think I'm the cause that nitro is not active here in PN? you are off the road.

There are actually 1-2 more examples I'm forgetting the names of, but the point is-- you seem to keep doing this with people, never really altering your behavior. This is a problem.

In fact, it's been around 1.5 years of this same behavior here, hence my decision to 'rattle your cage' as above. Believe me... that is pretty much option Z out of my list. I would always prefer to be polite, positive and helpful where possible, but that clearly wasn't working with you, I'm sorry to say.

Wow!!!!! it is your mental illness, I only have problems with you ... and with no one else, ask yourself at; @GeorgeH ,@Gimli ,@Gin ,@TerryRed ,@NitroNimbus ,@Popotte ,@JLou5641 ,@LtJazz ....(except Furio), if they have problems with me, or resentments, or what your mind tells you ..... for me,your real problem is it is a persecution towards me!!!

yes maybe, I have wrong with some of them, no one is perfect,I never said bad words as you did,then I apologized, and now there are no more problem with them, only with you, but because you want it, yourself, not I.

You want to be the big boss here, and you want to use me to do it, you're like those workers who lick their boss's ass, to be valid in their eyes.......I don't give you this chance anymore.

And now I'm really tired of talking to you, I'm disgusted, you forced me to get out of this site, remove my things, just for your mania.

Addio!!!!Goodbye, I don't answer you anymore, falls the whole universe!!!

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Could be, Paolo... could be.

 

[NitroNimbus]

As for Nitronimbus, I recently noticed you badgering him about putting in the right tags and prefixes and stuff until he threw his hands in the air and stopped sharing here.

I want to make something 100% absolutely clear. The above statement could not be further from the the truth.
@Paolo is not the reason at all why I decided not to post my tables here anymore.
I thought I explained this.

It is nobodies fault, I am just old and not used to change.

I have no issue with Paolo at all, It is the opposite!
He is a long standing asset to the FP community and an asset to this site.
He has contributed more and helped more people in this hobby than most of us all combined.
I consider him a mate and hope others get behind him to convince him not to leave, cheers!

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

I want to make something 100% absolutely clear. The above statement could not be further from the the truth.
@Paolo is not the reason at all why I decided not to post my tables here anymore.
I thought I explained this.

I have no issue with Paolo at all, It is the opposite!
He is a long standing asset to the FP community and an asset to this site.
He has contributed more and helped more people in this hobby than most of us all combined.
I consider him a mate and hope others get behind him to convince him not to leave, cheers!

Thanks for pointing these things out!

If it helps, perhaps Paolo and I could put each other on mutual ignore if he chose to remain.

I could also try to make it more clear that I'm not a staff-person, and that in future, people shouldn't contact me directly if they're looking for a staff action. So next time around if I -was- contacted, I could simply tag a staff person and stay out of the fray. This would also depend on whoever's available, of course.

 

[NitroNimbus]

It is what it is!
Blaa Blaa, he said this, you said that. But he said, then I said!!!
Please quote me if I am wrong, but I believe Pinball Nivarna if not is one on the oldest virtual pinball sites.
I feel it is more focused on VP8/VP9 and now VPX as a natural progression.
But I don't think the FP community moving here has damaged anything, I would say in the past two year this site has seen
an increase in members and traffic since the FP community decided this was the place to be.
I like your resolve and answer to the current issue, it is the most mature part of any conversion so far.
But how about you let FP people be FP people and stick to VP, I am not saying who is right but as we all know
the two never mix very well, cheers!

 

[JLou5641]

Keep calm all. keep working together. I like vpx, i love to make table for vpx. But I like FP too. Each one have there advantage and disavantage... And this is why i'm working on new physics for FP, because i'm sure we can do better from my point of view of real pinball player and Vpx user/author. I'm for exchange between vpx and FP.. both could help each one. So guys, stay in peace please and lets works together.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

Please quote me if I am wrong, but I believe Pinball Nivarna if not is one on the oldest virtual pinball sites.

AFAIK PN is indeed the oldest major virtual pin site in the VP era, which of course includes the FP fork. Now yeah, there's some ancient niche pages a bit older, personal pages etc out there, but I wouldn't call them "major."

I feel [PN] is more focused on VP8/VP9 and now VPX as a natural progression.

I would say yes to the former and "not so much to the latter." VPF.org and VPU are far and away more focused on VPX from what I've seen.

But I don't think the FP community moving here has damaged anything, I would say in the past two year this site has seen an increase in members and traffic since the FP community decided this was the place to be.

Yeah, most deffo.

I like your resolve and answer to the current issue, it is the most mature part of any conversion so far. But how about you let FP people be FP people and stick to VP, I am not saying who is right but as we all know the two never mix very well, cheers!

Well I've already been in involved in FP projects for some time now, so... okay?

Anyway, you're probably right that a thread like this should have been handled by a staff person exclusively. I'm willing to abide by that, if... you know.