Firepower V1.6 (PD) MOD Pulled (sorry, I did not do it)

[bob]

Whoever would not like to wait till this is sorted, and has tried this, and like it, can post and I will make up a version of a PacDude table, anyone you want, and e-mail it back.

I'd like to see PD's Sorcerer table with your flipper settings... I didn't login in time to download your first mod, which can't be unauthorized, I'm sorry, but that's impossible if he labeled it as a mod. I don't want to get involved in this, but I would like to try his settings on Sorcerer as I can't hit sqat with the current settings.

Send it to me at the following email address without the spaces.

bobsvppage @ aol.com

Holy Shit!! Shocky sent me a Sorcerer Mod and I could AIM the ball. I played 3 games and achieved multiball each game. I played about 5 games on PD's new release and didn't achieve multiball once and the flipper aim was erratic.

Shocky may have his problems, but he's one talented fellow.

I'm not trying to knock PD either.... His Sorcerer table is about the best VP table work I know of....

 

[StevOz]

Strange that, I recall you yourself bob, endorsing Pacdudes' flipper settings and updating many of your tables, with his same said settings?

 

[PacDude]

In case you didn't know, Bob, multiball is not supposed to be easy in Sorcerer. The table in general is not supposed to be easy. Modifying the flippers so the shot you want is easier to hit is not hard to do. But test those settings on a table you know extremely well (like TAF for me) and see how well you can aim every shot like the real thing with the ball moving, etc. THEN you find out what's wrong with the new settings.

You want the best possible aim? Use the shallow flipper settings I have in TAF as an option. They LOOK completely wrong (start angle is WAY WAY too shallow), but they aim really well.

 

[Shockman]

I have no shot in mind when I do this. I have told you that. I don't even test it for any particular shot. This has nothing to do with that. It has to do with having an idea where the ball is going to go. I in fact tested nothing but that the ball would go not go through the flippers, yet the flippers movement would look more realistic. Bob endorsed that, we all did, because it was the best at the time. Real Sorcerer is not hard because the flippers are so fast you can barely see them go up or down, and that is nothing to be proud of. These settings improve the aiming for me and others. It improves the speeds, and the look, it improves every thing to do with flippers. It's advancement. The fact that these mods play better, is no mistake, and the thought and work that went into this was no spiteful deed. It was being thought out and worked on before any of these 'At Night' mods came out. I could link you to a post that goes into detail that predates these mods. mmpac is fucking old, but it is proof that you don't need unrealistically shallow flippers. Bob likes it. and he may endorse this, why not, Steve? because he used the best he could find at the time for him, he should be stuck using them for all time? He credited you as well, in his ASM table, with the downswing speed. Strange, every one wants a piece of that, yet they want to support PacDude taking out the bttff from the rest of us. How did you come up with the idea, or the knowledge to do that, 'Oz, you should have shared that!

Still. I will not mod ASM but give Bob something that he and I know improves on that table, if in fact it is not the first one that this don't. We are so mean, to try to make VP better, you should take away my attachments for 4 weeks or something for that.

You are so strange 'Oz. In the past. So what? that was the past. You take away my not only my attachments that you don't approve, but my ability to use attachments, over this, and now you say in another thread because it is because of the past. And you say I am stuck on the past. You are strange. I think you have no right to take away my attachments, and PM, you seem to think I have no right for an explanation. What shot starts multi ball any way, I haven't played it that much, I got a two ball multi by shooting the ball through the left ramp twice, but my short and only testing I would use the stand up targets, and before I modded it I would try to hit the bank, when I tested it I could hit individual targets I would aim for in that bank.

I never knew these settings were so volatile on a human level. Damn, I saw bickering after I told you guys that the program would let you change the downswing, and that the settings would be table based, and not person based, but damn. Every one took it and called it their own or at least picked a number and stuck with it!

 

[StevOz]

I never picked any number or will I stick to it, I experimented and use differing speeds/angles and strengths for both upswing and downswing, that which works best for a given layout within VP.

 

[Shockman]

You experimented with ASM then?
ASM does have nice flipper settings, but, with code different, I find it challenging.
PacDude, is right, in as much as I am not good at reading code. I am not good at writing it either. What I think I am good at is thinking up things to ask it to do. And asking. Sometimes I have to ask it and ask it, and ask it in different ways. Sometimes I can get it to give, and sometimes it won't help me out no matter how I ask. Sometimes we have to compromise, and that is fairly often. Wow, it sounds like I have a healthier relationship with the editor than this site. I had to compromise with this. I had to control the dynamic downswing, and VPM takes care of the static upswing. I think a good coder, a vpm coder, such as PacDude, could sneak those dynamic downswing speeds in and give the solenoid back to VPM.
4 flippers create another problem with ASM.
I go on trying.

 

[Shockman]

While I have your eyes, 'Oz.
The reason you have for giving my attachments back, after the holidays, is the reason you should give it back today.

 

[Slapnuts]

It will take more than a few min and a nice line or 2 to get them back Shock, you keep it up for awhile and maybe something can happen.

 

[Shockman]

Seems not everyone is as unreasonable as you are 'nuts.

 

[Shockman]

Thanks.

 

[Slapnuts]

Thats ok, enjoy

 

[Shockman]

I will, thanks. I think Jon did it while he was here. If that's the case then any promises I made to you or 'Oz about what I would attach would not apply, would they?

 

[Shockman]

Yes, his tables are free to mod assuming you put some real work into it.

Can I quote you on that Slapnuts?

 

[StevOz]

You know Shockman, the truth is I never removed your attachment privileges in the first place. I thought I had and it was my intention to do so, but it seems a clicked the wrong option. Now I could go back and fix that, though what the hey, thanks for the candy cane. :)

 

[Shockman]

You don't think I checked? Or you want these fine people to believe I did not check? I in fact checked a great number of times, each time I asked about it. I now know for sure who fixed this.

Thanks Jon!

Back to the topic.

In my opinion, FirePower_PD_1.6_Mod is the best playing VP table I have ever played. Now it would not be if PacDude would not have modeled it as well as he did, or the flippers were not improved no end.

He can not say that this table is suppose to be hard IMO there is no hard shots on it and in my experience there is no unmakable shots in it. Yet my top score on the official version was around 200,000 and on the mod 759,000 plus with 2 credits awarded inside the game and three afterward. Real tables can be mastered, and VP tables can be as well. Is this because I made it easy, or is it because I made it work? I think you know the answer to that. You can not master a table if you don't have a good idea where your shots are going to go.

 

[Shockman]

I'm looking for a host for these tables, if anyone is interested.

 

[Shockman]

Now, if you were to return my PMs, then I think that would be about the last of the issues I have here, other than my release thread being junked.

You are not going to loose me either way, but if it comes down to loosing PacDude or doing the right thing then what are you going to do?
Whose decision would it be if he can not stand to be around competition, so then leaves? That's right!

What is John going to do if you decide to act like an Admin. in this matter and check, just check, if I abused him period, or replied to an abusive post with an abusive post. I don't like being set up like this, and it all just happened too fast, to not be set up imo. When I am set up like this I don't forget it. If it is denied I don't forgive it. All I ask is that you check. Or is there something I can do? Perhaps post what I said to him. It was not a private message, I just replied using that system, because that's how he got to me.

 

[Shockman]

OK then, let's begin, shall we?

I gave you those points as an insult.

Now I knew that. What this makes clear, is that I gave him no reason to know that I knew that.

Back to the list, I am not going to post what was said in obvious confidence, nor complete posts, but my ability to give and receive PMs from anyone is on the line here, not just John (tiltjlp).

Ron should be banned, no ifs, ands, or buts

This is just one of many PMs that were sent to me because he was mad at Ron. I did not bring up Ron. I had forgiven Ron and I guess that is why.

Now, I will go on,
but if you think I should be bombarded with PMs because someone is mad at someone else, then who would like to volunteer to get PMs from me about PacDude? Assuming I ever get that back, of course. I thought not.

I'll give this a chance to be read and considered, first, though, as a courtesy.

 

[tiltjlp]

Usually When John PMs me a point donation, and tells me what to do with it, I thank him for the points, and tell him that I miss him and that it's good to see him, etc.

I was wrong John, I can read, and cut from them, We can stack them up against each others if and only if you want to.

The only one I have saved is the last one which I reported, and no, I won't post filth like that. All I did was give you my points and told you to buy a brain. Why shouldn't I, either yours is defective or missing.

 

[PacDude]

I'll tell you what I find objectionable. I've played the REAL Firepower and my flipper settings are damn close compared to the real thing. Thus, I find statements such as Shockman's that claim to be 'advancements' to be insulting. My settings are what they are for a reason and this idea whereby Shockman says he's going to mod ALL my tables one day for each until they're ALL modded or UNTIL I change the core.vbs file BACK is nothing but pure fucking BLACKMAIL and bullshit. Going from 0.137 to 0.140 and 1.0 to 1.25 and then claiming that's a HUGE ADVANCEMENT is little more than smoke and bullshit.

He should spend more time making his own tables instead of fucking with other people's tables and then trying to take massive credit for minor flipper alterations.

I've left tables open to mod for your personal benefit to make minor adjustments to taste for your own copies, but I'm starting to think maybe I'll just start locking them in the future to prevent dicks like Shockman using them as blackmail.

 

[Shockman]

Mean people suck. Table lockers suck. I did not not say that, someone else did.

0.137
0.014

Can you tell the difference when they are stacked like that. I never claimed 0.137 and 0.140 is a huge advancement.

Call it Blackmail, if you want. I don't care. It's a choice you have to make. You can lock all the tables you have, but you can not lock the tables I have. You can limit the distribution of them, but that's the only way you can stop it.

You have always found advancements insulting, unless it was the advancements you were doing.

fucking with other people's tables and then trying to take massive credit for minor flipper alterations

I tried to get minor credit for major flipper alterations, and that was before 'fucking' with other tables.

Why do we need to label it as a mod then, maintain the info section, and all that shit if it was for personal use? Why?

 

[bob]

In case you didn't know, Bob, multiball is not supposed to be easy in Sorcerer. The table in general is not supposed to be easy. Modifying the flippers so the shot you want is easier to hit is not hard to do. But test those settings on a table you know extremely well (like TAF for me) and see how well you can aim every shot like the real thing with the ball moving, etc. THEN you find out what's wrong with the new settings.

You want the best possible aim? Use the shallow flipper settings I have in TAF as an option. They LOOK completely wrong (start angle is WAY WAY too shallow), but they aim really well.

I use to play this table at a bowling alley years ago.... I'll admit that you couldn't rack up the FREE GAMES, but multiball wasn't really that hard to achieve. Shocky's mod just has more AIM in the flippers for lane shots AND the center targets, which makes the table more enjoyable.

I also removed the GI's from the center area to get rid of the ball showing through the upper flipper. GI's are great, but I'd rather have no flipper/ball glitches than the center GI's.

Like I said earlier, this is one of the best VP table conversions, but I also like to play them. Do you remember Smarty by Emkaah? People were super impressed with everything about that table.... But I couldn't play more than a few balls on it, because the table played horrible IMO.

This hobby should be about fun.... I wonder why I seem to be one of the few people who actually enjoys themselves.

 

[Shockman]

The ramp is an easy shot. It's a side drainer, and I can't think of any other reason to call it hard.

 

[Shockman]

Same with Fire Power, a side drainer. Easy game though.

 

[Shockman]

I enjoy them no end. I enjoy playing them, and If I find them wanting, I enjoy tinkering. Wanting is a good word in this case. I think these table builders want the tables to look realistic, and play as good as can be made to. I think PacDude wants this as well. I think it is only his pride that leaves them wanting. If I can not Mod them for my personal use and share them, instead of installing them into the table database, that I have every right to do that and to offer it to whoever wants it. I think if not, then he has no right to release VPM tables that use the core.vbs file in any way, because I did not authorize him to mod that. It was put in before he even took over them. If he took out other things that made tables work better, because he don't personally need them because he don't like them, or replaces them in his script, like roll over switches or something, he should have no right and no support in doing that. No one should be happy if PacDude is the only player to have working rollover switches. The Ball Through The Flipper Fix, is the same as that. Put into the file to make it work better, and taken out so it would no longer work. That is a fact. The default flipper speeds, up or down, is not fast enough to eliminate the problem. The core does indeed not work the same as it was.
I agree, as he does that the default flipper speeds are not good for most applications. And that people would be better to not use the default. I disagree however, that they must. We are talking about defaulting to no balls through the flippers, and that is all. Tweaking speeds should be about tweaking speeds, not trying to eliminate a problem we have no need to have, and that is my opinion.