Williams Solved Firepower (Williams, 1980) issue

[njPinWiz]

Williams Firepower having a problem(s). The right inner lane, right outer lane, the top 4 lanes and the 3 "power targets" on right side mid-playfield are not activating when rolled over/hit. The machine had been going to "game over" when the right flipper was triggered, but now seems to play properly with the exceptions above. Could it be a fuse? Am trying to determine which fuse would be in the path of those lanes/targets but the schematic is hard to read. Any suggestions? I certainly could take each fuse out & test for continuity...that was my next step, unless someone else has a suggestion. Thanks!

 

[Coil_Smoke]

sounds like a typical switch matrix issue. Most likely a broken wire or solder joint in one column or row. I'll try to look at a schematic.

 

[Coil_Smoke]

Problems in two columns (5,6) & several rows. For shits and giggles try re-seating the switch matrix connectors. do right kickback,lane change & shooterlane switches function?

 

[njPinWiz]

need more help on identifying switch matrix connectors

Coil_Smoke, thanks. So that I don't cause any more damage, lol, need some more direction as to those connectors. See attached diagram & photo. I had replaced the original CPU and Power boards with an Rottendog MPU... Would you be able to tell me which connectors you are referring to?

 

[Coil_Smoke]

I hate to say I can't much help with after market super boards. My understanding is they replace separate cpu, sound, driver boards with one board. Seems you must know what goes where to install the thing. I figure your fault(s) are under playfield breaks. "Plug" all defective switch locations into the switch matrix schematic to locate logical broken connections. I bet that board has sweet diagnostics to make that easy...C_S

 

[pinballdaveh]

the 2 jacks on the right side of the board are the switch matrix rows and columns. has the new board dip switches been correctly set for firepower? is the combo board new from dist. or used , or did you pull it from another machine for test? in the manual playfield switch location , what all switch numbers are not working? if the board is new , rottendog tech support might be able to help.

 

[njPinWiz]

thanks guys,

the Rottendog board has been in the machine for almost a year, working flawlessly until now. The board was new, directly from Rottendog. It was installed for me by a competent tech. Dip switches are all in the proper setting. The switches that are not functioning are # 01, 03, 04, 05, 09, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31, 34 and 39.

I re-seated both connectors on right side of board & tested. Still has same issues.

 

[pinballdaveh]

when testing for correct switch location numbers does the working switches correctly be identified to the switch matrix chart? (ex switch 1 is plumb bob tilt. f rollover is switch 32). do you have the combo board schematic that you can post, i didnt see it listed on the manuf. site. the switch numbers that you listed are all over the matrix chart and dont make sense or follow any pattern.

 

[njPinWiz]

Rottendog schematics attached...

Regarding switch locations, I might be confusing things. The switch #s I referenced earlier were read off of the "Rule Sheet" diagram (posted below also), maybe I have listed the reference #s incorrectly

 

[pinballdaveh]

what are the 2 jack numbers printed on the board that are used for the switch matrix? with that info ill try to figure it out when i get back later.

 

[njPinWiz]

the jacks

are labeled "2J2" and "2J3"
Thanks for all the help & your time!

 

[njPinWiz]

My sincere apologies guys....I have been using the wrong reference document for the switch #s that are presenting a problem. Refer to the diagram below, which is the correct diagram. The switches that are not functioning are: #33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 48. Sorry for mixing things up, am pretty much a novice at this. Thanks everyone for you help!

 

[pinballdaveh]

it looks like column's 5 and 6 are both bad. in what jack does the green wires plug , plug in to?

 

[njPinWiz]

there are 8 green wires going into the connector that is plugged into jack "2J2"

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

Imported posts from vb4.2.3, let me know if I should delete this post.

njPinWiz

when you say the jack pins solder connections, what does that refer to? I plan on re-pinning the 9 position Molex connector as soon as the parts come in. Are your referring to the male pins on the board itself, or some other component?

01-28-2016, 08:51 AM
njPinWiz

Another question pinballdaveh...in looking at the board for IC19 and IC17, I could not locate them. I had mentioned that a Rottendog MPU is installed on this machine. Rottendog schematics are provided earlier in the thread. Is there a way (that you know of) to correlated IC19 and IC17 on the old, original boards to the Rottendog? Or, is that really a question for Rottendog tech?

01-28-2016, 08:51 AM
pinballdaveh

yes the male pins , check for any cracks , and reflow if needed. also can you post a pic of the chip thats just left of the bottom of 2j2?

01-28-2016, 09:31 AM
njPinWiz
2 Attachment(s)

two photos (different exposures) of the lower right portion of the board near jack 2J2. Attachment 6794 Attachment 6795

01-28-2016, 08:52 PM
pinballdaveh

what is the number on the chip that i was asking about , next to 2j2?

01-29-2016, 09:08 AM
njPinWiz
1 Attachment(s)

That chip is marked "U17" just under it on the board. Now I am a bit confused & may need to talk to Rottendog. On the schematic they provided (see below, upper left corner), it shows IC17 and IC19 components - but, I can't locate IC17 and IC19 on the board. Seems odd to me. Attachment 6797

01-29-2016, 10:11 AM
njPinWiz

That chip is marked "U17" just under it on the board. Now I am a bit confused & may need to talk to Rottendog. On the schematic they provided (see below, upper left corner), it shows IC17 and IC19 components - but, I can't locate IC17 and IC19 on the board. Seems odd to me. Attachment 6797

01-29-2016, 10:13 AM
njPinWiz

Just checked w/Rottendog...the IC17 and IC19 components were replaced (schematic is out of date) with chip U17. Was only a few bucks so ordered it and will replace on the board. That, along with re-pinning molex connector hopefully will solve things.

02-01-2016, 04:17 PM
njPinWiz

I replaced the U17 integrated circuit on Firepower & it seemed to work initially. All the lanes/switches/targets were activating. Then, a series of odd things began to happen.

The lane change feature didn't work
On ball drain, bonus score registers...then it loads ball in plunger, but even though I had only pressed 1 player, when ball drained it moved to 2nd player, and gave score just as the ball was loaded into the plunger...about 5,000 or 6,000...again, when ball drains it gave player 3 added score, etc.
And upon new ball being loaded in plunger, the upper right kick-out hole activates repeatedly, even tho there is no ball in the hole...it does that until you shoot the new ball out of the shooting lane and onto the playfield.
After further checking, now the inner & outer lanes to the right of the bottom sling do not activate.


Not sure where to go from here, but seems like the problem has gotten worse.....

02-02-2016, 11:32 AM
Coil_Smoke

Take a good close look at that kickout hole switch assembly. How is your credit switch supposed to operate? Does it always reset the game during play or will it add players after ball 1. I don't have time to look at switch matrix , is credit switch in matrix? I keep thinking there are shorts, broken connections, possibly intermittent in play field wiring. Try pressing/wiggling everything while switch edges test is active. Could be faulty diodes in your matrix too.
P>S>Sometimes the stiff blades in scoring/activating switches cause problems by making contacts that are not supposed to happen...

02-02-2016, 03:14 PM
njPinWiz

Credit switch when activated always resets the game during play, it only adds multiple players before ball 1. Credit button switch is in the switch matrix: column 1 (grn-brn wire off of 2j2-9 connector) / row 3 (wht-orn wire off of 2j3-7 connector) I'll re-inspect those connections again, and test. Thanks coil!

 

[Coil_Smoke]

It brings things back up to date. I say it is a keeper...

 

[njPinWiz]

Update: replace IC #U17, and re-pinned both Molex connectors 2J2 and 2J3. While this did solve some of the issues, there are still two remaining. Game starts properly...but, when 1st ball is loaded from the out hole it rests on the ball shooter switch (# 46) which then activates the right eject (kick-out) hole which is switch #30 and adds some score incorrectly.

Also, when right flipper/lane change is activated (switch #45) it causes activation of left eject (kick-out) hole which is switch #13. This action also adds score incorrectly.

Am thinking this might be a board problem, since I closely inspected all impacted switches under play field & they all look fine. Am planning to contact Rottendog tech & see if they can walk me thru testing the MPU board.

 

[pinballdaveh]

i agree it does sound like a board problem. and you got the switch matrix problem corrected , it may be in the games rules proms. i hope the rottendog tech is able to help.

 

[njPinWiz]

Rottendog has always been extremely helpful & provides great service. Am hoping they can identify/repair any issues with the board. If the board is clean, then I have a wiring problem. More to come. Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

 

[Coil_Smoke]

Thoughts on a work around. Lane change function, seems less important than annoying extra scoring and saucer firing. That ball shooter switch, probably only triggers a sound effect. Would disconnecting those switches make for a more playable game?
As for the actual problem...other than the fact that both those switches are in the same row they interact with. There is not much to go on. I would try activating the lane change and ball shooter switch pins with plugs removed at the board and see what happens.

 

[Coil_Smoke]

As for a minor work around. Seems like disconnecting the lane change and ball shooter switch would make for a more playable game. the ball shooter switch probably just triggers a sound effect. That would be less annoying than a saucer firing and errant scoring. Playing without lane change doesn't sound too bad either.
As for your actual problems. Other than the fact ball shooter & right kick out, lane change and left saucer are in their same rows, not much to go on. I would activate the switch functions pins, with plugs removed at the board. And see what happens...

 

[njPinWiz]

you are right, the ball shooter switch can be disabled & really doesn't affect play. But, disconnecting the lane change feature switch on right flipper does effect the game - it's actually one of the cool features of Firepower. So, I'd like to try and resolve the cause of that problem. With help from Rottendog tech I've done some cross-connect tests between 2j2 and 2j3 connectors, which seemed to indicate that there might be a problem on the board itself. Rottendog will be testing it for me. Will see what happens.

 

[njPinWiz]

another update: sent MPU board to Rottendog, and when returned installed it back into the Firepower. Good news is that the pin turned on, started a new game, played, scored properly & all switches worked! That was awesome. The only related problem now is that I can't get into the diagnostics in order to change the game settings. The old board had a switch marked "Diagnostic Start"...but, the Rottendog doesn't. Will continue reaching out to Rottendog to see if there is some kind of work-around, or if I need to go into "Master Command Settings" and set the dip switches to restore factory settings....don't really want to do this - am afraid something else might go wrong.

Anyone experience this problem - that is Williams System 3 not being able to go into "diagnostics" mode?? Thanks.

 

[njPinWiz]

Last update: I believe all issues have been resolved. To get the diagnostics to start up again I re-seated the two connectors on the top left side of the board which provide connectivity to the coin door diagnostic buttons. Then I reset the diagnostics - there are two push-buttons (black, square shaped) towards the left side of Rottendog board, by pushing the "SW1 - Diagnostics" button the diagnostic buttons on the coin door activated! Able to run diagnostics now as well as changing game settings. Thanks all for the great help!!