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Support File Future Pinball Vital Links

shiva

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BAM - Pinball Nirvana main boards
Set-Up Instructions for FP and BAM

BAM Coding

End User Guides
Guides and Help
How to add DOF (Direct Output Framework) support to any Future Pinball table

DMDExt (freezy) and Future Pinball (real and virtual DMD support) (TerryRed Guide)

vpforums Future Pinball Help Center forum
This is our start to a new master link of essential links/tutorials/help files for Future Pinball and BAM. Have a great link not already here? Just post it here so we can add it to this post.
 
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Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
I don't think it's a good idea to have a link to GoPinball because we don't know, alas, the future of this site.
If you want, I can do, as I'm administrator, a copy of the thread, manage it and post it here in the FP's tutorial section and then you can update the link above.
As you want my dear.
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
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Thank you Terry. Missed that missing url.

I agree on GoPinball, but had to put one in at least. If you do that it would be great. We (admins) are quite concerned that GoPinball will go dark so we have been trying to get the older authors to reupload their stuff here just in case. Same with the tables, as it's the same server.
Because of the hoha with authors "rights" and stuff, we just can't grab it. The big problem is if it's gone it's gone for good. Hopefully other people will put their guides up soon.
We also (well me actually) decided to put up other site links as well, but we are very short staffed around here and Steve and I are sort of semi-retired now, so I'm hoping that people add links in these boards, and I will add them all in one place. Save a lot of work, and it's amazingly helpful to everyone that comes here.
 

Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
@GeorgeH
OK. I'll hope George will be OK because I'll do some (little) modifications and also have to upload (or integrate in the same thread) some GoPinball threads (George's manual is a kind of matriochkas...).
So, be patient (and I'll left my home tomorrow for about 1 week)
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
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Great. Take the time you need, and Thank you.
I will ask a couple of authors now retired about their stuff, especially the tutorials and table examples, models etc. Maybe we should just put that in the download section, as it's very hard to find things in forum threads. Hmm...
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
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I had been planning on moving that tutorial over here. The reason I am so slow is that it has many links to other resources on GoPinball. ...So if you copy the one posting, you have to copy the others or at least decide to remove the links. The BAM guide should probably be copied over if nothing else is. JP has my permission to copy it over if he would like. I am about finished with Twilight Zone. I have been thinking I will do some work on the forum next so I might do some work on it.
 

Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
Yes George, problems are links because some are dead, some contains link to (now) unknown pics and/or sites, ...Some linked threads have to be reshuffled and so on. But if you want, I can do that.
In an other hand, it may be usefull to have somewhere a to do/done list, isn't it?
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
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You can proceed with your plans JP. I might update it later. I was thinking I might add a link to Google translator. I think it is possible to translate a whole page but I haven't tried it yet. It seems to do a reasonably good job with some exceptions.
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
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I have added my first two parts of my tutorial here:



Feel free to comment.
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
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Reorganized this a bit.
There are a lot of help files here, and because the software has a specialized feature that adds a nice box feature for each link, it slows down the page displaying if you have too many of them. Instead, I pointed to the main pages for the help files, so you can find what you need very quickly. As well, gopinball links have been removed because it looks as if this site is on it's last legs, and that information may be lost. I encourage the authors of those posts to repost here in case GoPinball goes down.
 

Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
As well, gopinball links have been removed because it looks as if this site is on it's last legs, and that information may be lost. I encourage the authors of those posts to repost here in case GoPinball goes down.
I think GoPinball have just to be "rebooted" but as there is no longer a pilot on the plane, we can wait for a long time:
- TheNalex last visit 20 April 2021
- LvR last visit 6 February 2020
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
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I can't understand why they haven't left the keys to someone to do something, like maybe ban the spammers, or even just close down registration there for the time being. The site is pretty much unusable with all that spam, and it gets worse everytime I go there. I hope it stays up, just the loss of all the model resources would be a huge hit, but it's a case of hope for the best, but prepare for the worse.
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
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I can't understand why they haven't left the keys to someone to do something, like maybe ban the spammers, or even just close down registration there for the time being. The site is pretty much unusable with all that spam, and it gets worse everytime I go there. I hope it stays up, just the loss of all the model resources would be a huge hit, but it's a case of hope for the best, but prepare for the worse.
It is pretty sad what has happened there. I don't even open it anymore unless I need to research a previous version of BAM or find something that I need.
 

Popotte

Flipper is good for you!
Site Supporters
I can't understand why they haven't left the keys to someone to do something, like maybe ban the spammers, or even just close down registration there for the time being. The site is pretty much unusable with all that spam, and it gets worse everytime I go there. I hope it stays up, just the loss of all the model resources would be a huge hit, but it's a case of hope for the best, but prepare for the worse.
If they no longer wanted to take care of the site, for whatever reasons, either they passed the keys to someone, or they prohibited posting (in this case, the history of the messages was preserved).
Just my opinion.
 

Isaac Sauvage

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Consultant
@GeorgeH,
In cases where useful guides are made by folks friendly with PN (Rafal, Itchigo, etc), is there any particular reason they can't be mirrored here, given permission?

Since we all seem to agree that GoPinball is on shaky ground, I'm not really understanding why more of an effort isn't being made to preserve their content here (and wherever else). Sure, it takes manpower and double-checking permission, but beyond that... is there another reason?
 

GeorgeH

Flippered Out
Staff member
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@GeorgeH,
In cases where useful guides are made by folks friendly with PN (Rafal, Itchigo, etc), is there any particular reason they can't be mirrored here, given permission?

Since we all seem to agree that GoPinball is on shaky ground, I'm not really understanding why more of an effort isn't being made to preserve their content here (and wherever else). Sure, it takes manpower and double-checking permission, but beyond that... is there another reason?
To my thinking guides are better. Rav does an incredible job with BAM but his guidance is rather sketchy at times.
 

Isaac Sauvage

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To my thinking guides are better. Rav does an incredible job with BAM but his guidance is rather sketchy at times.
Well, I mean anyone's guide or resource content. Anything at all that may be of future use.

Guides could be copied in to posts / threads, and content could go to the resource and/or media areas.

I'm just wondering why that isn't happening if GoPinball has become so sketchy.
 

Gimli

Pinball Master
Well, I mean anyone's guide or resource content. Anything at all that may be of future use.

Guides could be copied in to posts / threads, and content could go to the resource and/or media areas.

I'm just wondering why that isn't happening if GoPinball has become so sketchy.
I dont think there are many more guides at gopinball we need . Maybe the custom ball guide and ball paks

Terrys mega guide explains vr

Ravs release notes and examples have been helpful in the past
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
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The problem there is we are stretched a bit thin as it is. It's a huge amount of time and work, and a couple of us (like me) are semi-retired and have very little time to do anything, let alone that. It's not just grabbing the resources, it's also having to create each page for them, putting in the writing, doing images (if needed etc) It's not tough to do, just the time adds up if you have a bunch, and gopinball has quite a lot of material that would need mirroring, that was built up over 10 years or so.

The other thing is author permissions. People just get so upset if their stuff is put up on another site without permission. Even things like models can cause problems within the community, but it's usually tables like last month when someone decided to help themselves for their own site. There has been enough problems with this that the community has ended up being very clear on every time this happens, and there is no compromise with that. The right of the developer or content creator must come first, even if it means that material may be lost forever. (though that has happened mostly with VP/vpx stuff, we have had that happen here) Even trying to get a hold of these authors has been tough. We have been getting the word out to get the authors to reload their content here just in case, but what else can you do really about that?

If someone wants to start grabbing resources, we would be happy to have that, but we also have to respect the "rules" of the community as well, and even though it may be "just" models, there really is no grey area.
 

20degree

Pinball Wizard
Well i am an author of many guides. When i have created the guides i asked first for permissions and authorizations of peoples to do printscreens. For FP, Christopher Leathley have givin me his permissions and authorizations. Mete Ciragan from Milkshape3D give me also permissions. Milkshape3d for peoples not knowing is a 3d model format that is used for models into FP. There is also the guy from MameWah that givin me permissions to explain his soft, to create MameWah menu to play FP games.

I do think i am the only person that has been able to create, design and program the ressource "Kickers in angle" for FP. Many peoples tryed to create functionnable kickers component in angle, but the only thing they could do is simply use the kicker hole of FP; then simply give a rotation of it, so it kick "straight up" in some direction. Here is the "Kickers in angle" ressource: http://www.pinsimdb.org/fr/pinres/entry-1681-kickers_in_angles
I also have created other ressources as a "Square Bumber Cap", a FP table (basic) with two floor levels: http://www.pinsimdb.org/fr/pinres/?searchAuthorIdx=14711
It's not much ressources, but hope that it gonna help fiew peoples.

Sebek have also givin me permissions for printscreens for the software Gfx2DmdF (Grafix to Dmd Font), that make peoples create there own Dmd with there own images. Ton Roosendaal (Blender3D) explained to me long time ago, that i dont need to ask permissions to do printscreens for software that are if i remember GNU or GPL; i did not know that. Ton had reply to my questions. There is the software BforArtists.de that is also a modeling software based on Blender. Sadly i would like that for BforArtists there is peoples that create a zip file (addon plugin), so that peoples can import/export Milkshape3D files that peoples coud use for the soft Futurepinball. Doing this addon plugin, i could create guides about BforArtists to create Milkshape3D models for FP.

Brief i have created many guides, and the tables i have design and created; have into the scripting (many comments lines) to help peoples knowing to do many things. But i'll be modest, i could not do all these great things without the peoples help; there time, instructions and guiding. This beside the peoples permissions and authorizations for the guides i have created.

One thing for sure Gopinball had many great things into, think there is still things into. But i found it sad that there is many spam/junk into since the fiew years past. I do think that many peoples have proposed to help them do some cleaning. What happen, i dont know and wonder? I know that i have posted my guides into the section (Tutorials/20degree Beginner Guides) in this secction: http://gopinball.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4924
On Gopinball i also had put links to the free software Softimage XSI Mod Tool at:
http://gopinball.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=409&start=40
But dont know when these downloads will be taken out?

A+
 
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Isaac Sauvage

Meep!
Site Supporters
Consultant
The problem there is we are stretched a bit thin as it is. It's a huge amount of time and work, and a couple of us (like me) are semi-retired and have very little time to do anything, let alone that. It's not just grabbing the resources, it's also having to create each page for them, putting in the writing, doing images (if needed etc) It's not tough to do, just the time adds up if you have a bunch, and gopinball has quite a lot of material that would need mirroring, that was built up over 10 years or so.

The other thing is author permissions. People just get so upset if their stuff is put up on another site without permission. Even things like models can cause problems within the community, but it's usually tables like last month when someone decided to help themselves for their own site. There has been enough problems with this that the community has ended up being very clear on every time this happens, and there is no compromise with that. The right of the developer or content creator must come first, even if it means that material may be lost forever. (though that has happened mostly with VP/vpx stuff, we have had that happen here) Even trying to get a hold of these authors has been tough. We have been getting the word out to get the authors to reload their content here just in case, but what else can you do really about that?

If someone wants to start grabbing resources, we would be happy to have that, but we also have to respect the "rules" of the community as well, and even though it may be "just" models, there really is no grey area.
You know, I think it's good that you took the time to write that out, because newer people to the scene may not be familiar with this line of argument and precedent. (and the accompanying history)

As you probably know, Paul, I consider that approach sound and sensible up to a point, but beyond that, I fear it tends to wander in to rather self-defeating, overly-cautious, and maybe even neurotic territory. Sort of like studying in the library room at a haunted mansion... afraid to touch any of the books.

Personally I've uploaded quite a bit of content here that was never previously uploaded to PN or to Pinball-Originals (a defunct partner site). My approach has always been to reach out to the author wherever possible, and where there's no objection, upload with full credit, making it clear that anything they object to at any time will be immediately pulled.

It so happens that after all this time, I haven't had a single person object or ask me for something to be pulled. In fact, I've discovered that the vast majority of creators don't intrinsically mind that their work is shared somewhere. What they mind is when they weren't asked and/or weren't given proper credit. That's basically it.

I've also touched on this discussion / debate several times since early 2020, welcoming a referendum of sorts, but so far nobody's cared to join in. Which... isn't too surprising, as most regulars here are focused on their own projects after all. Fine. But I still think a reevaluation wouldn't hurt, as I find the old model antiquated, impractical and unnecessary to a certain extent.

Not unlike a learned behavior, so to speak-- as in, it made sense at one time, but over the years, the situation can naturally change. Does our behavior automatically change accordingly? Unfortunately not; it takes intentional effort to reprogram.

.

Aside from that kettle of worms, another approach would be for someone (anyone, really) to scrape as much of the GoPinball content as possible and start up a torrent / upload to Internet Archive / etc.

Personally I'd have already been uploading GoPinball stuff here (under my standard model) ages ago, but I have almost zero background in FP, and don't know my body orifice of choice from a pesky gopher hole in these matters.

So I'm mainly just left to be a watcher. Watching, over the months and years, as I continue to notice people mentioning what a shame it is about the potential lost content at GoPinball. But my question is still pretty much: "yeah well, who's willing to actually help preserve it?"

Meanwhile, I can't help wonder if Nicky Special isn't laughing his arse off somewhere. :p
 
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