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Hey Bob, I've Got To Brag

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Well, Mr Spidey, I DL your TAF update, and on my third game, I fianlly did what neither of us figured I'd ever do. I got in the zone and played for 5 minutes and 14 seconds. I even got an extra ball of two, or FIVE. I did amazingly great, given my skill level. This might be the first time I've ever scores in the thousands on one of your tables, and yes sir, I have proof. Sure, it was probably a fluck and I might never do it again, but take a look. So do I get a Well Done, or just another Up Yours?

John :oldman
 

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bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
LOL That's a pretty good game! 1 free ball for the blue lights, 1 free ball for THE ADDAMS FAMILY lights, 1 free ball for a score of over 2,000 points and 2 Free Balls for beating your High Score. Maybe I was wrong and you could possibly win a Free Ball on Ultimate Spidey :)

You still need to achieve the MultEYEball (2 balls at the same time) and the Drop Targets Free Ball, but at least you got that feeling of achievement that comes from seeing the center Circle Lights flashing after winning a Free Ball :)

Now wasn't that most fun filled 5 minutes you ever spent playing pinball? :D I really like the clock on a few of my games, it's kind of cool to know exactly how long a game lasted. I think this table and SyncoBob1ana2 are my best tables.

I notice a couple of graphic glitches that aren't visible on my pc settings. Like that white line on the apron on the left side.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
When those lights started flashing, I thought I had broken something. I'll have to give Ultmate Spiderman a go again. But as much as I enjoyed the game, I'll still stick with flipperless and my trusty bagatelles. For me, that's where the real fun is, game after game.

John
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
tiltjlp said:
When those lights started falshing, I thought I had broken something. I'll have to give U;tmate Spiderman a go again. But as much as I enjoyed the game, I'll still stick with flipperless and my trusty bagatelles. For me, that's where the real fun is, game after game.

John

Damn bagatelles again, Here I tried yours, I added 4 walls and a smaller ball image (not the way I'd make a smaller ball, but this is easier). I wish you'd change to walls instead of bumpers for the nails. But you could/can make your bumpers nails not so tall if you wanted by adding a small invisible wall (named BumperWall for example) off to the side of the table around -15 Top Height and 15 Bottom Height and then under each bumpers option choose BumperWall for its Surface. You might want to change the overhang from zero to 1 if you tried this, so they aren't so pointy at the top. This would lower each bumper 15 VP units or choose whatever number you like best, or just keep them the way they are if you prefer them tall. :)
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Now Bob. I don't go referring to your releases as Damn EM originals, so why do you continue to show disdain for my bagatelle? And just because I make them differently than you would simply means I make them differently. And even if I were to begin making them the way you have suggested, you'd still think of them as Damn bagatelle, so it's a no-win situation.

Among the numberous reasons I make my bagatelle the way I do is that it's easier, faster, less labor intensive, I like them that way, and that's simply how I prefer making them. And since no one else has complained, that tells me several possible things, any or all which might be factual. Either no one other than you minds the way I make them, or the way they play. Or no one but you has ever played any of them. Or maybe the few folks who do regularly play bagatelle are appreciative of the fact that Patrick and I the only authors who regularly makes bagatelle, and are glad to have any bagatelle to play.

Bagatelle is and always has been a simple and straight forawrd game, and I see no reason to make them into something more than that. I play your tables and enjoy them for what they are, why can't you do the same with my tables? If I had the time, and was so inclined, I could probably come up with any number of things about your tables that I might do differently if I were making them.

But since I'm not making your table, and you are, I play them and grumble to myself when I have a lousy game. And if there happens to be one of your games I don't really care for, I simply don't play it, rather than trying to get you to remake it into something I might like better. So, either play them or not, but don't keep bugging me to change the way I make them, because that probably will never happen. So why not find something else to bug me about? :p

John :oldman
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
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tiltjlp said:
Now Bob. I don't go referring to your releases as Damn EM originals, so why do you continue to show disdain for my bagatelle? And just because I make them differently than you would simply means I make them differently. And even if I were to begin making them the way you have suggested, you'd still think of them as Damn bagatelle, so it's a no-win situation.

The "damn" was intended to be semi-humorous,


Among the numberous reasons I make my bagatelle the way I do is that it's easier, faster, less labor intensive, I like them that way, and that's simply how I prefer making them. And since no one else has complained, that tells me several possible things, any or all which might be factual. Either no one other than you minds the way I make them, or the way they play. Or no one but you has ever played any of them. Or maybe the few folks who do regularly play bagatelle are appreciative of the fact that Patrick and I the only authors who regularly makes bagatelle, and are glad to have any bagatelle to play.

Bagatelle is and always has been a simple and straight forawrd game, and I see no reason to make them into something more than that. I play your tables and enjoy them for what they are, why can't you do the same with my tables? If I had the time, and was so inclined, I could probably come up with any number of things about your tables that I might do differently if I were making them.

But since I'm not making your table, and you are, I play them and grumble to myself when I have a lousy game. And if there happens to be one of your games I don't really care for, I simply don't play it, rather than trying to get you to remake it into something I might like better. So, either play them or not, but don't keep bugging me to change the way I make them, because that probably will never happen. So why not find something else to bug me about? :p

John :oldman

Are you sure you want tips and suggestions like you say in other threads or do you just want "Glad Handling" The following could be my new reply...

Looks great, nice job fellows!! Thanks alot!
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
I realize you were being "funny" with your Damn, Bob. And yes, I really do appreciate your input, even if I don't use your advice all the time. And yes, I'd much rather have your comments than any amount of Glad Handing any day of the week. My comments were actually my attempt at some humor. And I've considered asking Mr Gald Hander not to post his Sweet Nothings in my release threads, but it probably wounldn't have any effect.

If I'm ever able to get a larger monitor, hopefully a 19" job, where I could see things better and more clearly, and if I had more time to accomplish even half of what I want and need to, then I might be able to see how much of a difference your suggestions would really make.

The interesting thing is that your comments are about the only ones I ever get about my bagatelle, so I'm only assuming that someone beside you and I actually play them. And if nothing else, I got you to make a bagatelle recreation, and that might be my major accomplishment in VP. Now if only we knew when each other was yanking the other's chain, then we'd really be in trouble.

So, maybe some day before I meet the Grim Reaper, you and I can work together on a bagatelle and you can show me exactly why your suggestions would work better than the way I make them now. Except I'd probably have to keep poking you in the ribs to keep you awake, huh? And I still like your Ultimate Alphabet, even if you don't, so there! And I still say you're not nearly as funny as you used to be.

Your pal . . . are you a native Buckeye?

John :oldman
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
Yes, I'm a native Buckeye, I've never lived more than 10 miles from my birthplace.

Back to the Bagatelle :) Did you download my attachment? Do you want the smaller BMP ball image?

I don't "really" care how you make your tables, I was "only" trying to help... That's why I was trying to explain how you could make bumpers that are different heights. I also "only" made a bagatelle because I thought you might enjoy it, I certainly wasn't trying to compete.

I will also be offering very little advice or suggestions to authors in the future and it will certainly only be in WIP threads. Despite what most table authors say, they really don't want suggestions. :s
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Yes, I did download your example table, but I haven't had much chance to look at it much. I will check it out, and yes, I'd like the ball image. I also relaize why you made Double Poosh M Up, and I really do enjoy it, especially since it's quite a bit different from the version by Eric and me. In fact your more authentic version is why I'm no longer enhancing my bagatelle. In many ways I perfer your version to mine.

Once I look into your example table a bit more, I'm sure I'll have a few questions. For one, I'm not exactly sure how you lower the playing field so the pins aren't so high, which is a problem when using undersized bumpers as pins. A lot of what might sound like resistance to your suggestions is really frustration on my part due to a lack of understandin, ability, and time. Also, working with Patrick is great, but with our language difference, we sometimes have trouble knowing what one another is talking about.

So yes, I really do appreciate your comments and interest in trying to improve my techniques. I find it interesting that someone who doesn't really care that much for bagatelle and flipperless shows more insight and advice that other folks who are more into the flipperless game scene. I'll try to study your table a bit more this week and see how much I can comprehend. Sorry if I sounded as if I wasn't interested, I've been even busier than usual.

John
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
I finally got a few minutes to look at your example table Bob, and noticed a few things that I really like. The plunger lane wall you made is great, and I'll be using it on all my tables for now on. And the smaller ball is a nice touch too, and will also be used, at least on my bagatelle.

I'd actually tried several times to make a wall to keep the ball from moving around in the plunger lane, but I'm not very good a working with walls that way, since my hands have the shakes. Now could you explain how it's possible to lower the bumper/pins, so they'll appear shorter than they are? I've probably read about it already somewhere, but I don't understand how to lower the playfield in specific places, which I assume is what needs to be done. And thanks for trying to help someone who is beyond help.

John
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
If you look back at my original post, I can't get any more verbose than that about bumper height. I forgot about the plunger wall, I only spent 10 minutes on the attachment and the "only thing I wanted to show you was the 4 wall frame around the table and the smaller ball image."

This bmp is a smaller ball and it will bump things on the left and right where there is no ball because we are using a picture to fake a small ball. This is what I meant in my post when I said (not the way I'd make a smaller ball, but this is easier). The better way to make a smaller ball is to make the playfield larger, but I told you and Patrick that once before and I do try not to repeat myself. :)

Anyway... I'm attaching the smaller ball image and you'll see what I mean after you see the image. Forget about the bumpers vs walls for pins, you're right in keeping it simple.


bob said:
Damn bagatelles again, Here I tried yours, I added 4 walls and a smaller ball image (not the way I'd make a smaller ball, but this is easier). I wish you'd change to walls instead of bumpers for the nails. But you could/can make your bumpers nails not so tall if you wanted by adding a small invisible wall (named BumperWall for example) off to the side of the table around -15 Top Height and 15 Bottom Height and then under each bumpers option choose BumperWall for its Surface. You might want to change the overhang from zero to 1 if you tried this, so they aren't so pointy at the top. This would lower each bumper 15 VP units or choose whatever number you like best, or just keep them the way they are if you prefer them tall. :)
 

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tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Thanks for the ball image, Bob. And I just reread what you wrote about lowering the bumper height. I'll give it a try, but if I understand what your saying, the invisible Bumper Wall doesn't even need to be on the playfield? That's the part that threw me, it doesn't sound logical. But then I'm not the most logical person around. Thanks again for your suggestions, and yes, I will give them a try.

John
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
tiltjlp said:
Thanks for the ball image, Bob. And I just reread what you wrote about lowering the bumper height. I'll give it a try, but if I understand what your saying, the invisible Bumper Wall doesn't even need to be on the playfield? That's the part that threw me, it doesn't sound logical. But then I'm not the most logical person around. Thanks again for your suggestions, and yes, I will give them a try.

John

Here's an VPT example table of Bumper Pins at different heights, it opens with the small ball image, but you can change it to the normal ball image. This just allows you to chose a nail/bumper height that looks more natural.
 

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tiltjlp

PN co-founder
That's great Mr Bob. Now with an explaintion and an example table I might just get the hang of what you have been talking about. If I can actually get the bumper pins looking more like the bards used on bagatelle that would be fantastic. Hopefully I can use this technique on Clown M Up, and release a bagatelle that even you like, if that's possible. At first, knowing that you're not a big fan of bagatelle, I did think you were just hassling me. I'm glad I was wrong, and will try to use as much of your advice and suggestions as I can. You're OK for someone from Dayton. :p


Wow, after checking out the test table it all is so clear. I still don't see how those bumper walls can work not actaully being on the table, but it really does make a differenece. I'll toy around with it a bit, but I think I prefer the ones set at -15 the best. As a "thank you" I just might turn the test table into a Bagatelle Pin complete with gobble holes, and call it Bob's Nightmare. And to prove that I'm not as stuck in the mud as I seem, I might even give another try at using walls for the pins.

John :oldman
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
I would never just hassle you...

Well, I was wrong about walls and bumpers, they both are jagged looking unless the table is almost straight up and down. I didn't know that until I tried it as I only worked on one bagatelle. The only advantage in walls that I see now is that they can be longer than Bumpers and maybe not quite so jagged. In my Bagatelle the pins are 66 units high, it's an illusion that they are short, because my table is almost straight up and down and you are looking right at them. It's pretty hard to explain this stuff in words and I know that it's pretty hard to learn it by only words also.

I'm not much of a teacher either :D I wish you had a big monitor with a high resolution on it :)

...anyway, as I've said before... Make the tables for yourself the way you want to, but I just wanted to make sure you understood how to change a few things if you wanted to.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
You seem to be a better teacher than I am a student. :p You made a few things I didn't understand a lot clearer, so now I can at least do some experimenting. I don't know if I'll ever get a 19" monitor, but that would only help so much. Again, I do appreciate your help in making these things a bit clearer than mud. Once upon a time I could pick new things up rather quickly . . . time really flies when you aren't looking.

John
 
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