I'd like some opinions please

[tiltjlp]

Well, I've finished up both Jail Break and Grim Reaper for Ron four or five days ago, but now I might have a problem. I sent Ron PMs like he asked, and attached the tables. But he may have lost access to the Internet. He was really anxious to release these two tables, which are his first. Since I haven't heard from Ron, I'm mailing the tables to him, since he had mailed them to me. What I'd like to do, if I haven't heard from him in amonth or so, is to release them both at VPO, of course in Ron's name.

I'd like some opinions on this, do you think that would be OK for me to do, or should I simply wait until Ron can return and let him release them himself. Don't answer because you'd like two more tables to play, but rather how you would handle things. Here's a link to the vpf thread:

http://www.vpforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=320202#post320202

John

 

[StevOz]

Seems to be a reasonable proposal and knowing how keen Ron is, I'd wager he would agree. I doubt it'll come to that, sure hope it's only a lack of acsess, that's preventing his word on this.

 

[GHoSTFaCe]

Seeing as it was only Dec 28th when he last posted in that thread, I wouldn't have even considered abandoning him yet. The holidays are busy for many people, and he has mentioned that he has lost his home internet service. And while I'm sure he trusts you, if it were me I'd be very excited about releasing my first table(s) and wouldn't want anyone to do it "in my name". I think it's too early to make this call. In a month? Well, maybe, but again if I were him I wouldn't want you to.

 

[Shockman]

I called Ron last night but had a very bad connection. His son answered, but could not hear me well enough and I never spoke to Ron. I'll try to get word to you today. My bet is that he would be proud of the quality of his new friend and happy with either way you went with it. I also don't think it would be possible to get Ron on your bad side by any means you try to help. I understand GHoSTFaCe, but have a hunch, again, I'll try to let you know his word today.

 

[tiltjlp]

Thanks for the opinions folks, just what I wanted. I sort of feel the way you do Ghostface, so unless Shockman hears something from Ron, I'd probably wait longer than a month.

John

 

[tudnut]

It seems to me that anyone making tables would WANT them to be seen, and (hopefully) admired. I would certainly want my tables out there, courtesy of someone else, were I suddenly unable to do that (and if I had the talent to make tables to begin with, of course!).

But then, I'm reminded of the recent and ongoing "neptune controversy," and how so many of you find it offensive that someone's willing to mirror your tables for free. (And remember, this was BEFORE we found out how offensive HE can be to begin with...which is another story, entirely.)

Still, the one common thing I can see in the neptune complaints is the fact that a lot of the tables there are old versions. Even though I find little fault with that, myself, as they're still a part of the history, I guess I can understand that that's not why a lot of you are here, and that therefore you're a bit peeved about it.

In the case of someone who has brand new tables, though, I wouldn't think that would come into play at all, John. (And, though I can also see the possibility of someone making stuff JUST for himself and not to be put out here, I would think he'd have mentioned that to you by now.)

I would certainly give him some time to allow him to find the means of getting back on here of his own accord and having the final decision (and the enjoyment) of posting them for himself...but I would also think that, if such resources are not immediately forthcoming for him (and more's the pity), he'd appreciate you taking care of things.

 

[bob]

But then, I'm reminded of the recent and ongoing "neptune controversy," and how so many of you find it offensive that someone's willing to mirror your tables for free. (And remember, this was BEFORE we found out how offensive HE can be to begin with...which is another story, entirely.)

Still, the one common thing I can see in the neptune complaints is the fact that a lot of the tables there are old versions. Even though I find little fault with that, myself, as they're still a part of the history, I guess I can understand that that's not why a lot of you are here, and that therefore you're a bit peeved about it.

Off-topic rant begins

I have over 20 tables floating around, an estimated 3000 or more hours of work. Why would I not want my updated versions at sites that freely host these tables? If "I" was the one to upload them, then "I" will see that they are kept updated, but there are sites that just host tables and don't keep them updated and don't ask for permission and don't care if they're the newest versions.

Why does this matter to me? Well, if someone downloads an old version, then most likely, that will be the only version they download. Original tables are not quite like PD's popular VPM tables where people will download 20 updated versions, we're lucky to get them to download 1 version of our tables.

It's also a lot of work to keep my tables updated and I hate uploading them to more than 1 site, if you check out my personal site, I either have the newest version available there or I tell you where to get it. I do have some flipperless tables that aren't mentioned on my site, but they are available at IRPinball.

I have some tables where I have even changed the name of them or the layout so drastically that I want the old original tables to just die and go away. I think Neptune has 3 of these available to download and he refuses to remove them even when I ask or tell him what the updated table name is and where he can get the updated version.

For example.... I have an Ultimate Superman that is a mod of a Wrenchien table. I have since updated this table with a completely new layout made by me from scratch, it has nothing to do with the old table anymore. I want the old version to die, even though it's a cool table an should be considered to be a completely different table. I feel that I should have that right since it's my work. I think I have 3 tables like this, I just want them to disappear, there's no deep meaningful reason for this, it's just that I'm a typical tempermental artist.

Off-topic rant ends....

I think Ron's been found.... I heard he was tied up in a nudie bar.

 

[tudnut]

Yeah, just saw that John's downloaded the tables. (That may have been there before I ever posted, it's hard to keep up with everything...but isn't that our dissenting point in the first place?)

Last I checked, by the way, "Ultimate Daffy" was still a dead link, bob. (I do have it now, thanks...unfortunately...to neptune. Sorry, though I did try a few times to mention this to you in the various threads we wander in and out of. And sorry if you didn't want me or anyone else to have it. Still...fun table!)

You're right about people only d/l'ing one version of your tables. But then, doesn't that mean that the people that downloaded your tables two years ago are still content with what they have...the SAME ones that neptune's offering? (This gets confusing.)

(Actually, I'd be willing to bet that most people on here get rather disinterested in d/l'ing different versions of the same tables, real or original, fairly quickly...unless the table happens to be one of their favorites. No one has every version of every table ever released! Obviously, not even neptune!)

For the record, though, I may check out your original "Ultimate Supes" table which you did in concert with wrench...the very concept makes me wonder! (And I mean no offense whatsoever in saying so...I LOVE wrench!)

On the other hand, let me be the first to say that EVERY table you ever did, and EVERY update to it, is well worth checking out. (Pay heed, new people!)

 

[rpbizzle47]

Hea John!!!! If you ever have a problem in the future contacting me, I give you my permission to release my tables ASAP. I'd like that I can trust in you to do that for me.

Thank you!!!

Did I mention giving Bob a run for his money?! :)

 

[tiltjlp]

Well, as for originals, you can't do much better than Bob, especially for variety and add-a-balls. I think you'll be amazed how many really good original authors we have.

John

 

[bob]

Last I checked, by the way, "Ultimate Daffy" was still a dead link, bob. (I do have it now, thanks...unfortunately...to neptune. Sorry, though I did try a few times to mention this to you in the various threads we wander in and out of. And sorry if you didn't want me or anyone else to have it. Still...fun table!)

I remember you telling me the link was dead, I want to do a complete update of that table. I accidentally deleted Ultimate Daffy from my FTP space. I think that was my second table and the Daffy sounds will play over each other as I didn't know much back then. That's not one of the tables that I wanted Neptune to remove.

You're right about people only d/l'ing one version of your tables. But then, doesn't that mean that the people that downloaded your tables two years ago are still content with what they have...the SAME ones that neptune's offering? (This gets confusing.)

I can't control the two year ago people, but I don't want someone to download an old version today or tomorrow, when they could have downloaded the newest version

(Actually, I'd be willing to bet that most people on here get rather disinterested in d/l'ing different versions of the same tables, real or original, fairly quickly...unless the table happens to be one of their favorites. No one has every version of every table ever released! Obviously, not even neptune!)

You are absolutely right, it better be a favorite of mine or a table by a new author and the screenshot needs to look impressive for me to DL, but then I'm a little burnt out on playing VP tables, so I rarely play more than a game anymore, even if it's a PD table.

For the record, though, I may check out your original "Ultimate Supes" table which you did in concert with wrench...the very concept makes me wonder! (And I mean no offense whatsoever in saying so...I LOVE wrench!)

Wrench has made some innovative and complex tables, you just have to sift thru his wackiness to find them. I have always liked Wrench, this table was a mod of his "True Blue" table and I changed all graphics and the theme and it really is a fun table, but to update it, I just couldn't imagine sifting thru his code again :) It has about 7 or 8 levels that you complete (I did it once or twice.) I think the last level you have to defeat Thanos (a DC comic biggie.) I think I'll put it on my "Bob's VP Tables - The Lost Tables" DVD someday :D

On the other hand, let me be the first to say that EVERY table you ever did, and EVERY update to it, is well worth checking out. (Pay heed, new people!)

You're so kind, I appreciate all comments even if it's BS actually I prefer the BS 8)

rpbizzle47, I got my eye on you....

 

[tudnut]

Hey! You bring up a good point, Bob. (Read the following with a LOT of concern in my voice!)...

Where IS Wrench, anyway?

I think the last time I saw a thread from him was a few months ago, the ongoing "Incorporateds" thread (think it was at vpf, might have been at Originals).

Haven't seen a new table from him in a long time...and this is someone who has averaged something like over 50 tables a year!

Is he okay? Has he quit? Does anyone know? (Does tii come on here, I think they know each other personally...but that's just a desperate grasping for a straw.)

Where's WRENCH???

(And, of course, I sincerely hope he's all right, regardless whether he's given up on VP.)

 

[tiltjlp]

Wrench, I'm afraid, is off in a world of his own, or hopefully keeping an appointment with a mental health professional. For a long time I figured he was putting on an act, which he could be doing, but the more I see his posts the more I wonder. Wrench used to write the neatest stories to go along with his tables, but then he got on a weird drawing and cartooning kick. He only posts at vpf, and usually something about hearing voices. It's either a grab for attention, which I first thought, or a slow slide into some sort of mental problems. Either way, he was really cool 3 years ago, now he worries me.

John