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I've made a decison

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Life’s nothing but an ongoing series of choices, and when a pinball forum or community is involved, many decisions seem to be and are connected. Every so often the VP community is visited, or maybe I should say plagued, with persons who do not have the best interest of the forums at heart. Recently we have had to endure Neptune, and before him, Aristocrat. I was particularly proud of the message we sent Aristocrat, and the way he simply faded away.

Neptune and Aristocrat aren’t the first nor the last fools VP will have to suffer. Currently our resident fool is Ron Bizzle, who from all indications, is dumber that anything a cat could ever drag in. Bizzle is so moronic that although it has been made clear to him that he isn’t welcome around VP, he won’t leave. That wouldn’t be a problem, except that he has infected Pinball Nirvana, the most liberal forum in VP. JonPurpleHaze owns PN, and being an extreme liberal he has allowed Bizzle to run roughshod over the forum and any number of long-time members.

Since I’ve decided that I’m unwilling to share PN with the likes of Ron Bizzle, and since it’s obvious that he will continue to be made to feel welcome here, I have decided to leave not only PN, but also VP and the Internet. Bizzle and his campaign of insults and hatred have taken all the fun I used to find in VP, and left a bitten taste in my spirit. I will continue to be a part of VP and PN until the 15th of May, when I will cancel my Internet service and once and for all leave VP. The only way I will not carry out my plan to leave VP is if Bizzle is banned from VP. It’s sad that I have to do this when I honestly don’t want to, but Bizzle has taken all the joy out of VP.

I want to thank those folks who stood with me in my effort to rid VP of Bizzle. Those who felt I was wrong, no hard feelings. Steve, I appreciate everything you’ve done for PN since I returned, and wish you luck in what has to be quite a tough job. Jon, good luck, it’s shame that you decided a vulgar, insulting, hate filled individual was more worth standing up for than common sense and principle. While I’m not in agreement with your decision, I’m not surprised. In the off-chance Bizzle is banned by the 14th, I’ll remain online and take whatever heat anyone wishes to subject me to. At least I have the courage of my beliefs to stand up for what I believed in. If not, hope y’all enjoy Bizzle’s wonderful tables.
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
To just leave a entire community because of one person is extreme, but I am also just sick of seeing one person after another be the community moron. Of course, I wouldn't allow stuff like this to happen in the first place, because not doing something is usually a lot worse than doing something.

That and of course, I have the abilities and the knowledge as a webmaster to make sure others aren't annoyed by that one person either if they want.

Even if you decide to leave, you don't need to just remove all traces, and remove the internet. You will always have a home with me.

Besides, once I get everything set up, I always could use a good writer to write the manual for a upcoming project. ;)
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Thanks Highrise and shiva. It's nice to have people take me seriously, and understand the problem. There's more than a week left to see what happens, and I'll evaluate my options and choices between now and then.
 

JonPurpleHaze

Site Nudger
Staff member
shiva said:
To just leave a entire community because of one person is extreme, but I am also just sick of seeing one person after another be the community moron. Of course, I wouldn't allow stuff like this to happen in the first place, because not doing something is usually a lot worse than doing something.
That and of course, I have the abilities and the knowledge as a webmaster to make sure others aren't annoyed by that one person either if they want.
I get your drift...and you missed the mark..:rambo:
 

highrise

Pinball Wizard
Jon

I'm very liberal myself, and I will stand up for anyone's right to free speech. If a member makes a mistake, it's fair enough they should get a warning, but if a member makes a series of posts that are so utterly and obviously designed to shock and offend, a warning is not good enough, and there are several reasons for this:

Firstly, we didn't get a warning that he was going to post this stuff. We were subjected to it unconditionally because the images appear on the screen automatically. He knew exactly what he was doing with this. So the punishment should fit the crime.

Secondly, we have a poll running that overwhelmingly supports a ban if he doesn't apologise. This is not a case of one member falling out with another, it's a case of nearly every regular person, the people that keep the forum alive, being offended and wanting him banned.

Thirdly, the forum has been completely taken over by this matter, people are thinking about leaving, and new members are undoubtedly being put off joining. Every hour that goes by, the situation deteriorates. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. Allowing him to continue here is like saying you will allow a parasite to continue to live on your body because it has as much right to life as you do.

Fourthly, simply removing the posts seems to me to be sweeping the matter under the carpet. More than anything, he has not apologised to the community for his behaviour, and maintains he did nothing wrong, so for him to get a slapped wrist without even being told to make a public apology gives him a victory that he should not be allowed to have. As I said before, to me this makes the admin seem weak, and in an extreme case like this, sitting on the fence is almost the same as defending him, and what he did was indefensible.

As I said, I believe in the rights of the individual and in freedom of expression, but this is too much. You have to make a decision for the good of the future of the site. At the very least, he should be asked to make a full and gracious apology, clearly admitting that he was wrong, and if he refuses to do that, he should be banned. As I have already said, I will also be leaving the forum if he stays. I don't want to be part of a site that tolerates this kind of thing. You may say you haven't tolerated it, but he has gone unpunished for incredibly offensive behaviour, and that to me is the same as tolerating it.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Well, I had hoped that JPH would show some back bone and loyalty, and back me about Bizzle. Since he hasn't, and it's obvious that he won't, I have decided, that rather than leave VP, I will cut all ties with Pinball Nirvana. This isn't as easy a decision as it seems, but Jon has repeatedly insulted and belittled me for many of the decisions I've made here, when he basically wasn't paying any attention. Just to show you how involved he is, he has no idea of all the problems Bizzle has caused, and thinks Bizzle will change. I'll still be around VPF and Pinball Originals, and I wish those still a part of PN the best of luck. At least now I won't have to put up with either Ron Bizzle or Shockman's endless rants. Thanks for the memories.

John
 
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JonPurpleHaze

Site Nudger
Staff member
tiltjlp said:
Well, I had hoped that JPH would show should back bone and loyalty, and back me about Bizzle. Since he hasn't, and it's obvious that he won't, I have decided, that rather than leave VP, I will cut all ties with Pinball Nirvana. So... you want bizzle banned and dislike my decisions?
He was given a warning and his images were deleted.
Your problem with bizzle seems extreme and i hope we can proceed from this, folks want him banned and the staff can't be held to poll results...
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
I don't believe that it is right to force a ban in that way, wish I did though, I'd hate to see you carry this out.

You had to go and say what was it? continue to be made to feel welcome? He is not.

You are going to leave the internet if Ron is not banned, even if he breaks no more rules? If that works, I will use it on VPF.

I agree with nicolas.b, and TheManFromPOST, There is no reason to lynch him. And I have to say that I can see how you could have set him off.

What would be wrong, if the warning was enough?
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
I disagree shockman. This entire community has been rife with problems because something wasn't done sooner, or until it's to late. I got so fed up with it all, I have "left" the community, because it's just not worth my time to even bother anymore.

The thing is a lot of people go on about freedom of speech and all that, but then maybe they are also confused because it just a website, and not a country. If you are the owner of that website, you set the rules, and if people disagree with those rules, then people don't have to visit there, which is exactly what I do with certain websites.

I set my own rules, i make sure everyone knows them, and I will enforce them if needed, but because everyone knows my rules, and knows not to push me with them, I have far fewer problems than anyone else, and crap like this never happens in the first place.

Don't even need to ban or RO anyone either, there are other ways to do it with my system. Some are very ironic. :)
 

JonPurpleHaze

Site Nudger
Staff member
shiva said:
I disagree shockman. This entire community has been rife with problems because something wasn't done sooner, or until it's to late. I got so fed up with it all, I have "left" the community, because it's just not worth my time to even bother anymore.

The thing is a lot of people go on about freedom of speech and all that, but then maybe they are also confused because it just a website, and not a country. If you are the owner of that website, you set the rules, and if people disagree with those rules, then people don't have to visit there, which is exactly what I do with certain websites.

I set my own rules, i make sure everyone knows them, and I will enforce them if needed, but because everyone knows my rules, and knows not to push me with them, I have far fewer problems than anyone else, and crap like this never happens in the first place.

Don't even need to ban or RO anyone either, there are other ways to do it with my system. Some are very ironic. :)
Whats your point?.......
You ban folks at will? Pinheads?....
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Just so there is no misunderstanding . . .

If you've heard that overnight I quit Pinball Nirvana, you heard right. It's been coming for the last six months, if not longer. If you want details, read about it here at PN. I guess Pinball Originals will be my new Pinball home, and I won't discuss PN over there. And as for PMs or e-mail, I'll only respond to PN related questions from folks who I count as my friends. If you aren't sure where you stand with me, don't chance it. This is my final post at PN. You can either thank or blame Jon, all according to how you feel about me leaving.
 

PcwaG

Gamer
Well, I hate seein' ya go John.

I know you and I butted head back when Jive and I did our thing at VPF, but we got things smoothed over and I consider you a closer friend through the whole thing.
But the main thing is to make sure you take care of you.
If things are getting to ya here, perhaps a break is needed, but I would recommend at least poking your head in once in a while to see if things improved.
You never know, as stubborn as I am, perhaps I can just kick Mr. Bizzle's virtual e-ass. :twisted:

See ya in the Outlane if anything, then, John. :)
 

JonPurpleHaze

Site Nudger
Staff member
tiltjlp said:
Just so there is no misunderstanding . . .

If you've heard that overnight I quit Pinball Nirvana, you heard right. It's been coming for the last six months, if not longer. If you want details, read about it here at PN. I guess Pinball Originals will be my new Pinball home, and I won't discuss PN over there. And as for PMs or e-mail, I'll only respond to PN related questions from folks who I count as my friends. If you aren't sure where you stand with me, don't chance it. This is my final post at PN. You can either thank or blame Jon, all according to how you feel about me leaving.

Thank Me, John has been trying to turn this joint into a prison for the past year or so.. I always mentioned that these forums are not necessary and I'm happy to serve a shitload of files without the forums. You want me to ban bizzle? Ask StevOz? You seem like an old punk.... :smash:
 

Cobracure

Pinball Player
tiltjlp said:
Life’s nothing but an ongoing series of choices, and when a pinball forum or community is involved, many decisions seem to be and are connected. Every so often the VP community is visited, or maybe I should say plagued, with persons who do not have the best interest of the forums at heart. Recently we have had to endure Neptune, and before him, Aristocrat. I was particularly proud of the message we sent Aristocrat, and the way he simply faded away.

Neptune and Aristocrat aren’t the first nor the last fools VP will have to suffer. Currently our resident fool is Ron Bizzle, who from all indications, is dumber that anything a cat could ever drag in. Bizzle is so moronic that although it has been made clear to him that he isn’t welcome around VP, he won’t leave. That wouldn’t be a problem, except that he has infected Pinball Nirvana, the most liberal forum in VP. JonPurpleHaze owns PN, and being an extreme liberal he has allowed Bizzle to run roughshod over the forum and any number of long-time members.

Since I’ve decided that I’m unwilling to share PN with the likes of Ron Bizzle, and since it’s obvious that he will continue to be made to feel welcome here, I have decided to leave not only PN, but also VP and the Internet. Bizzle and his campaign of insults and hatred have taken all the fun I used to find in VP, and left a bitten taste in my spirit. I will continue to be a part of VP and PN until the 15th of May, when I will cancel my Internet service and once and for all leave VP. The only way I will not carry out my plan to leave VP is if Bizzle is banned from VP. It’s sad that I have to do this when I honestly don’t want to, but Bizzle has taken all the joy out of VP.

I want to thank those folks who stood with me in my effort to rid VP of Bizzle. Those who felt I was wrong, no hard feelings. Steve, I appreciate everything you’ve done for PN since I returned, and wish you luck in what has to be quite a tough job. Jon, good luck, it’s shame that you decided a vulgar, insulting, hate filled individual was more worth standing up for than common sense and principle. While I’m not in agreement with your decision, I’m not surprised. In the off-chance Bizzle is banned by the 14th, I’ll remain online and take whatever heat anyone wishes to subject me to. At least I have the courage of my beliefs to stand up for what I believed in. If not, hope y’all enjoy Bizzle’s wonderful tables.


Good riddance you moany old fart. Go find some other way of annoying people. Writing letter to newspapers or something. :D
 

JonPurpleHaze

Site Nudger
Staff member
TheManFromPOST said:
shiva, so you have installed the 'misery' program?
I wish we could add that to VPF
Might be hard to accomplish if you can't add files to the site and don't pay cash for an upgrade huh? shiva might be able to accomplish the change but everyone else probably could with proper permissions.
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Nope.

One of the new features with VB is to set it so a person can be globally ignored. If a person actually wants to see that person's post, they can set it in their CP.

In other words, a person can post as much as he wants, he can just be very happy writing what ever he wants, but no one will actually see it. :)

There are also other ways to do things as well, inferno systems, moderation of posts, things that are included that would be considered "anti-free speech" like, but for some reason are included as part of the basic package.

I also have my own modifications and hacks, and I could use others, but really, the simplest thing is usually the simplest solution.
 

JonPurpleHaze

Site Nudger
Staff member
shiva said:
Nope.

One of the new features with VB is to set it so a person can be globally ignored. If a person actually wants to see that person's post, they can set it in their CP.

In other words, a person can post as much as he wants, he can just be very happy writing what ever he wants, but no one will actually see it. :)

There are also other ways to do things as well, inferno systems, moderation of posts, things that are included that would be considered "anti-free speech" like, but for some reason are included as part of the basic package.

I also have my own modifications and hacks, and I could use others, but really, the simplest thing is usually the simplest solution.
So what?
More ignore and banning tools seem redundant, is it fantastic that a user could make an invisible post? "Globally Ignored" sounds like a fancy name for banned.
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Pathetic, you talk about backbone Tiltjlp, John, go on, show us..... a few images, a difference of opinion from someone you have little respect for is enough for you to throw in the towel?

Yes this Admin, being mainly just me, with JPH's current approval decided to give Bizzle another chance, so what, deal with it, he has not since breached the conditions set down via the warning, that was issued to him.
 

highrise

Pinball Wizard
I think it is the job of the administrator to be aware of the needs and sensitivities of its users. By giving Bizzle a second chance you are effectively saying that he will be forgiven and suffer no punishment. This was a far more extreme case of behaviour than a simple falling out between members, and I don't think you appreciate just how much this has angered everyone, and how sickened they feel that he is allowed to still walk around acting like he did nothing wrong, even saying that he did nothing wrong.

That's what really gets me the most. He has not been asked to even apologise, despite the overwhelming view of all the regulars that he should be banned if he doesn't.

Bizzle is a splinter in the eye of this forum. He needs to be removed. I am already at the point where I no longer post anything related to my VP work here, and I will soon be requesting that the tutorials and demos I made also be removed. I'm also considering asking the regulars to boycott the site for several days to make the point clear.
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
You think that our job is? Yet I am fully aware of the sensitivities, as for needs, that's a dubious call at best. I fully appreciate how much this has angered and sickened many, myself and many more besides that chose not to be party to such.

Wrong, really, so vastly wronged that it effects their very being, if so then that is of their own volation.

The forum has no eye or splinter, he needs? to be removed? You do as you will, it's your call as it is for one and all.
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
Thanks Jon.

I like John, better than Steve, but Steve is right and John is wrong.

I thank Jon, not that John is leaving, but for a site that is just a bit relunctant to ban someone, more, a site that would give someone a chance to follow the rules that are set up.

If you warn someone that they have to do this, give them a chance to do this.

Unforgiveable? I don't agree. I will forgive Ron , and hope to be friends again if he has changed per Steve's instruction.
 
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