Kiss [WIP]

[shiva]

It appears to be safe and pop my head around the corner, so I figured it's about time I showed what I have been working on the last little while.

Before I do though, I should mention that I have always considered KISS to be overrated as a actual game. I never really liked this one, which only goes to show a couple things.

1. I've been bugged to do this for well over a year now by a friend
2. Maybe I shouldn't have friends

My own disinterest was bad enough, but I promised that if a decent image ever fell in my lap, I would take a crack at it. The bad thing is this damn thing fought me every step of the way, Power Play took 2 weeks, this has been three and I still have the backglass to do.

The other reason is the colors for KISS. Any one who uses light sourcing will know that there are 3 colors that will drive you the most nuts. Red, Yellow, and Black. Too powerful lighting will wipe out the colors and the detail, especially with my style.

So I decided to post a screenshot, as this is very much a different style and way of doing things for me so I can get some input. More than likely, I will be doing some early Williams games, which has the same color schemes, so I'm trying to hammer down a good way of doing things.

Of course, with me, don't expect this to be the same with a released build...

This is a big image, so be warned.

Screenshot: July 4th
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13860704064at.jpg

Screenshot: July 5th
http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13860705060uq.jpg

Screenshot: July 12th
http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13860712062yo.jpg

 

[elton]

Looks great shiva.

I too am not a huge fan of this table but looking forward to you releasing it. :)

Thanks

 

[davidsss]

Looks real nice. I actually quite liked KISS and had a chance to play it last year. Nice 70's pinball with 1 main aim - get that bonus.

DS

 

[shiva]

Thanks guys, but err...

I woke up this morning, had a look, and decided I could do a lot better job than that.

It just looks too washed out and dirty, I can see why this method of light sourcing causes a lot of people problems with blowing out colors and putting a ulgy whitish film over everything.

Anyway, I deleted the entire lights and shadows, and started over again. I think I am happy with what I have now, but then I have the right to change my mind, because I always seem to do anyway.

At the very least, it looks way better to me, but I am still adjusting everything. Maybe I'm getting the hang of this after all, at the very least, I have a totally new method for doing light sourcing now.

I will put up a new screenshot before I go to bed tonight and let you guys have a look.

 

[Shockman]

You crying about 3 weeks? Surly you jest? Work on one for 3 years! I know, it helps if you like it, but I could not see this looking any batter if it was your favorite.
It does looks great. I'll try anything that looks this good but I'm not a big fan of that one. I'd like to have the SE though.
3 weeks? Yeah, I want SE.

I just read the next part, that you are re-doing it, but that don't change nothing. Or is the new ss up? I mean it, I don't see it, it looks good.

 

[shiva]

nope, I said when I go to bed, knowing me, about 4 in the morning. Considering Power Play was done from scratch in 2, guess I'm a bit disappointed, but really, I feel like doing something else, so want this one out of my hair.

I guess you guys can cast your vote which one you like better when I post a new screenshot. I'm just gonna walk away from the computer for a couple hours, clear my head, and then look at it again with fresh eyes.

I'm glad you guys think the first is okay, just it wasn't the way I wanted it to look, I wanted the colors to pop out a lot more, and it doesn't take that long to redo it.

Yeah, it's se3, scripting and everything is done. Just a couple dead spots to fix, and test a couple new code snippets like the impulse plunger, which is new.

BTW shocky, I would be the one to know all about 3 year projects, wouldn't I? :)

 

[shiva]

Second shot up, so let the debate begin, though I think no contest. Though it's darker, just comes out a lot clearer, and the colors are, well, the proper colors, not washed out. I'm trying out a new depth technique as well, this one seems to need it.

I fixed a few graphics as well, so I guess I start on a backdrop tomorrow. Thanks for the comments so far.

 

[elton]

They both look good IMO and I'd go as far to say that I can't notice the difference between them.

So go with whichever you're happy with 'cos I'd be happy with either. :)

 

[destruk]

I like the way it looks shiva, but I don't understand why the top rollover trigger wires slant to the middle of the table.

 

[shiva]

Easy answer, because that's the way I like them. :)

Didn't notice that much? Try opening them both up, and flipping between one or the other. The difference really shows by the spinner areas, where it's completely yellow in the first one, and by the drain. A lot of areas really lost their color, and became white, or really badly faded. Plastics were redone as well.

I think it will be more noticeable once I do a backdrop as well.

Very scary moment though. I went to load up the table to do a screenshot, and it refused to load. I looked and VP saved it at 3kb as the file. Thank godness I learned my lesson and had auto save enabled, but still, since the so-called XP fix, I have had problems with saving tables. Now I save 2 separate copies, and check the file sizes before I close the editor.

Would have been rather unfortunate huh?

 

[elton]

Re: RE: Kiss [WIP]

Didn't notice that much? Try opening them both up, and flipping between one or the other. The difference really shows by the spinner areas, where it's completely yellow in the first one, and by the drain. A lot of areas really lost their color, and became white, or really badly faded. Plastics were redone as well.

I had originally tried to compare with them side by side. Now that I've used full screen mode and flicked between them, I can see some differences. But I put it down to the fact that the lights are on with the one and off on the other. But really, my eyes are 'shot to shit' at the moment so trying to see subtle differences is proving difficult to me. But both look fantasic - so it matters not a lot. :)

 

[elton]

Re: RE: Kiss [WIP]

Very scary moment though. I went to load up the table to do a screenshot, and it refused to load. I looked and VP saved it at 3kb as the file. Thank godness I learned my lesson and had auto save enabled, but still, since the so-called XP fix, I have had problems with saving tables. Now I save 2 separate copies, and check the file sizes before I close the editor.

Would have been rather unfortunate huh?

This has happened to me also with a 5Mb members subscriptions database - think it's an XP thing! When I went to save the file it saved rather too quickly - so I opened up the directory and the file was something like 50kb. Horrified, I re-saved the file and checked the size before exiting. Oh so lucky.

 

[shiva]

RE: Re: RE: Kiss [WIP]

Yaeh, that damn pop up message came back yesterday, the one in the task bar when you power up the computer. Reminding me I'm not using their piece of junk firewall. I switch it off, it's fine for a while, then it switches itself back on.


grr....

 

[elton]

It's a real pisser.

 

[destruk]

About the only suggestion I can make about any save issue, turn off the drive write-cache. What that does is waits until you have solid blocks to save and then saves it all at once. With write-cache disabled, it saves as soon as it's told to. The option is in windows control panel/system/device manager, and the actual drive properties. This way if your pc crashes or loses power you should be better.
But I don't use XP, so test that theory out first with saves that aren't critical.

 

[shiva]

Thanks Brian, I will look into that. My computer needs a bit of a overhaul anyway, if I can afford it, grab a exrta stick of memory, and create a cache disk for photoshop, as 50 meg psd files have a tendency to slow it down. Who would have though that? :)

I was just teasing about the wires, your right, and easy enough to fix anyway. Must have flipped x them by mistake

 

[destruk]

If you want them that way it's fine. I'm sure it'll play just as good. There's lots of little things that I turn down on requests or notes - just see Strikes n Spares where I entirely don't consider the issues brought up to be important enough to release an updated table. I mean ok, so we know it's wrong, the lights should be on the playfield instead of the hood, just I don't think it's important enough to fix. I don't care as much as you do, so I must be 1/20th as good as pacdude. lol...since that's the running theme lately.

 

[shiva]

Hey, don't you know, according to "informed sources", no one may be 1/20 as good as PacDude. :)
Ah well, at least it was finally said after years of this, so people will finally understand some things. I guess I am that fussy aren't I when it comes to detail. Oh well, you all love me for it anyway. :)
I will start on the backglass tonight, everything else is done, so maybe you all can play it in a few days (Kid weekend though) but it's not very good, and may not be worth downloading. :)

 

[shiva]

Ah well, good news and bad news. Good news for me though, Kid weekend started a day earlier, bad news is he pesters me so much that I can never get any work done, the only time I ever will is when he sleeps, and if he knows I'm working on something, then he will come up with any excuse possible to come out and watch me work in photoshop.

Okay, kind of strange, but he's just like that. By the time he hits 10, he may be better than me. :)

anyway, guess I won't get the time to do everything as quickly as I thought, but then anyone with kids will know that one. Managed to get a decent start on the backglass, the hardest part is done, which is removing the displays and drawing in new images to replace them, and I've already rearranged and modified the arcade image.

Now the fun stuff starts, add the borders, displays and stuff I do freehand. I was hoping to get nearly done tonight, but guess not.

Alas, the bg image wasn't great, but the best I could find, and maybe I can get it better later on.

Not worth showing yet, so you still have a chance to look at the 2 different images and suggest improvements. I already changed the main colors twice today though. :D

 

[rpbizzle47]

It appears to be safe and pop my head around the corner, so I figured it's about time I showed what I have been working on the last little while.

Before I do though, I should mention that I have always considered KISS to be overrated as a actual game. I never really liked this one, which only goes to show a couple things.

1. I've been bugged to do this for well over a year now by a friend
2. Maybe I shouldn't have friends

My own disinterest was bad enough, but I promised that if a decent image ever fell in my lap, I would take a crack at it. The bad thing is this damn thing fought me every step of the way, Power Play took 2 weeks, this has been three and I still have the backglass to do.

The other reason is the colors for KISS. Any one who uses light sourcing will know that there are 3 colors that will drive you the most nuts. Red, Yellow, and Black. Too powerful lighting will wipe out the colors and the detail, especially with my style.

So I decided to post a screenshot, as this is very much a different style and way of doing things for me so I can get some input. More than likely, I will be doing some early Williams games, which has the same color schemes, so I'm trying to hammer down a good way of doing things.

Of course, with me, don't expect this to be the same with a released build...

This is a big image, so be warned.

Screenshot: July 4th
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13860704064at.jpg

Screenshot: July 5th
http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13860705060uq.jpg

Can you get Players 3 and 4 (score) off the table?!
I mean move them towards the top of the table. Closer to 1 and 2. Other then that, it's looking very nice indeed. Oh, one more request....Could you include a MP3 (music of Kiss) along with the table?! :)

 

[shiva]

RE: Re: Kiss [WIP]

I'm pretty sure people can find their own music. :)

The displays will be different this time, a bit narrower. See how much room I have once I finish drawing the backglass.

 

[Shockman]

RE: Re: Kiss [WIP]

I agree that the second pic is better. In fact it is outstanding. The flippers look either a bit too long or a bit too fat at the tip to me, but I would not swear to it.
You lock right? Can I throw a ball in?

 

[shiva]

RE: Re: Kiss [WIP]

Good eye, They are two width larger than the actual image. The reason is simple, they make the game play better, and the ball drain ratio more balanced. I don't really need to point out how bad the flippers are in VP. :)

This is what I do find a bit funny. Some people are so intense to make their images so perfect, and make their objects so perfectly matched to the arcade standards, they forget one very important thing. The programs we use to play them on are certainly not perfect.

Perfect is nice, but if they make your game play suck, then it doesn't really matter does it? People will still post, pat you on the head, say all the nice things, yet only play the table once and never play it again.

 

[Shockman]

RE: Re: Kiss [WIP]

I agree that perfect gameplay is more important than perfect graphics. Can't wait to see how perfect it plays.

 

[shiva]

Re: RE: Re: Kiss [WIP]

I agree that perfect gameplay is more important than perfect graphics. Can't wait to see how perfect it plays.

Neither can I. :)

hell, with all my tables, I've never have no idea if it is the best table I've ever done, or it's the worse table I have ever done, till about 1 minute before I zip it up and upload it.

Didn't say it was perfect, no such thing, but it's a typical boring table from me, you like the one before, you will like this one.