• Many thanks to Ian Longstaff for his lovely table roundups, posted on YT. And here is... WEEK SEVEN!

    Also, here's our browser games collection, for those who are playful.
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Let's all hope for the best

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
While a lot of us have been frustrated with VPF at times, I'm sure none of us want to see it falter or fold. Especially not with shivaSite sharing server space. So I'm going to meditate for their quick return, and no loss of data.

We might not always get along with everyone in the VP community, but we do need to pull together. So at least cross your fingers that both VPF and shivaSite return soon, none the worse for wear.

tiltjlp
 

ohmwiz

Pinball Player
John is right - United we stand, divided we fall - it's not just for the US History books anymore, folks...

Think about it

Ken
 

PacDude

Pinball Wizard
VPF is screwed up. I'm sitting here right now waiting and waiting and waiting for it to just show me the 2nd page of new messages. It just sits there waiting for the server to send the page and of course it won't send it because the server is fudged up. I've had it. This has been going on now for a few MONTHS and I haven't so much as seen AJ even COMMENT on the issue, let alone give us some idea what's causing it or whether or not it might some day be I dunno.... FIXED or something. (VPF finally returned with one of those "slight problems with the database" error resposnes.... Lovely isn't it?

I've got better things to do with my time than sit in front of my computer for 10-60 minute or more intervals between loading messages. That's fudging ridiculous. I've got an old C64 300 baud modem that could do better than that.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Couldn't agree more Miss K and Dude. VPF is my last stop any more, if I stop at all. Besides never knowing if I'll have to wait forever for it to load, most of the time half of the posts are not even pinball related. I'd prefer if the Outlanes weren't displayed, so I wouldn't have to wade through mostly mindless junk. I don't care about wrestling or seeing anyone's coffee cup.

John
 

ohmwiz

Pinball Player
If it doesn't have to do with pinball, why show it at all?
If you show anything and everything, you run the risk of alienating
your core members, and once they go, everybody goes.

Screw the ginger ale, get me a beer...
Ken
Ken
 

sunspot

Pinball Nudger
well imo vpforums is one of the biggest sites for VP and neglecting it or ditching it just gonna make things worse. To keep a community alive you have to work together at all times, you can have a disagreement ofcourse but radical actions like "I never gonna visit again since it doesn't do what I want ..." well those actions kill a community ... it has happend before and will still happen if you let it

greets

sunspot
vpohteam
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
I agree Sunspot. I surely don't want anything to happen to VPF, other than see it improve. No site is ever perfect, and we won't ever agree what the problems are, beyond the obvious.

The biggest two problems as I see them are how slow the site loads most of the time, and that often nearly half of all posts are in the Outlanes, which seldom are 1, humorous, and 2, pinball related. There are other forums for wrestling, coffee cups, political opinions and debates, and so on and so forth.

Now, when one of those Outlanes posts sound interesting, I take a look, and sometimes I even reply. but that happens less often all the time. I come to the various VP sites because I have a passion for pinball, not to read endless Off Topic threads. But just becasue I don't like what VPF has evolved into doesn't mean I want them to close, simply to focus on PINBALL.

tiltjlp
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
I've said this before, but what the hell, I'll say it again... There are alot of people who visit the forums to maintain the friendships they made at an earlier time, they don't DL tables anymore or make tables or even play tables anymore. Some of them comment on the new tables by just looking at the screenshot, this is OK, but of no use to the table author. I remember one time, I think it was Scapino who released a table and there were like EIGHT posts all saying how GREAT and FUN TO PLAY the table was, the ninth post was Scapino saying he was sorry, but the file never made it to his server and he would upload it again. :)

Sometimes I like the outlanes, but if you don't want to view them, all you have to do is hit new posts and don't click on the Outlane Threads.

I go to VPF first, I think it has been beautifully moderated since The Loafer took over, he is fair and has really gotten the staff to be patient with the members. I wish more people would post at the other forums, but for some reason they don't. I always thought this forums could be fun, but I think the "Flipperless" atmosphere just scares people off, but most people aren't interested in Originals either.

If it weren't for glad handling as you coined this phrase once for giving praise to your friends tables or even a payback praise for them commenting nicely on your tables, most of us authors wouldn't get any comments in our release threads.

Anyway, it would be nice if they figured out the server problems or at least commented about them, but it's always the same answer... AJ is very busy at this time and will get to it as soon as he can. I doubt if he has visual pinball installed on his computer anymore either...
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
I wasn't aware of the Scapino incident, but it's both funny and sad. While it probably shows the respect his work gets, it also points out what Glad Handing is, mostly empty or useless posting. And I guess in some ways that's better than someone not posting at all, but just barely. And yes, VPF has vastly improved, which in some ways only makes their preceived shortcomings more noticable.

I hadn't really thought about the social aspects of VPF and the other VP forums, but I'm sure you're right about that, Bob. And I guess I'm sort of guilty of wanting it both ways, I reply to those Outlanes threads I find interesting, but complain about the ones that irritate me, and I'll probably continue to do so.

And being an also-ran as a VP forum isn't always easy, but I think it can be useful. We'll never have the numbers of VPF, nor will the tables we offer be as popular, but again, no problem. JPH and I do this because we want to, and our small but slowly growing nmber of members seem to apprciate our efforts. It can make for some very inrteresting discussions, and so far, when we don't agree, it is always friendly. There doesn't seem to be as many ego problems here.

And although I've tried to make Pinball Nirvana all things for all of the VP community, there are a lot of folks who will never spend much time, or any time here, and that's OK too. And yes, it is ego that makes me try to keep this place fresh and interesting, so we keep increasing our numbers. Not in the sense that I think people come here because it Jon's and my site, but because I can mold this into what I think a VP forum should be, and that at least a few hundred folks appreciate it enough to visit and post regularly.

So I don't have a problem with being either number 3 or 4, I'll do thijngs I enjoy, the way I think they should be done, and be glad that at least someone notices. But I sure wish you'd rediscover your funny bone again, Bob, you seem much more somber than you once did.

tiltjlp
 

sunspot

Pinball Nudger
well i'll stick around so you got one more member but i'm not all that an flipperless fan I kinda like bob's originals the most. Originals who resemble real pins are the greates but you also have originals where they try to "invent" something new and quite frankly most of the time that just makes things worse. As for the feedback on the authors thats in every place meager , only real dedicated people to a project give constructive feedback that helps an author, forums isn't really a place for feedback you need some kind of dedicated beta-team

way i see it though
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
We all are individuals and are often blinded by our ego, such is our lot. All of us bias toward our pinball memories, with me it is late EMs and SS pinballs, with PacDude it is later day DMD games and as the demographic dictates there are more that will be bias toward those later day machines. Over time a good original is now the equal of any good recreation for me, whilst at first these held no interest for me.

Some of us will crossover and try the machines of another era, though for the most part will return to their prefered pinball era. This also applies very much to our political and other POVs, I am very left wing whilst I suspect Leo Wanker to be from the other camp and even Bob to a lesser degree.

Though we do have one thing in common and that is the love of the silverball, it is what bought us to this scene and is enough for many of us to remain.

For my part I often give these glad handling comments that you speak of, I feel obliged to do so after having downloaded and played a table. More often then not I feel unqualified to comment much further and I suspect I'm not in the minority here. Sometimes I do and that does not always go well, though I feel a few small corrections may have been made.

As for off topic, well that's sometimes an ego thing, though not always. I like to think those posts encourage others to feel a part of the scene, whether they be authors, players or whatever, a right to exsist and their opinion be known and the right to reply. Hey it more then just pinball, it's us finding each others common interests and just being the individuals that we are.

I also feel I have played a part in forum reforms through the voicing of not only my opinion but via polls and such, maybe I have gained some enemies, though I have gained many more friends. This "I" rubbish gets boring though, anyhows the more the merrier and none should feel that they cannot be a part of this passion for the silverball or excluded on any grounds.

Thank you and goodnight.....cha , cha, cha....
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Sunspot, I'm glad you're sticking around, and not just so we have 1 more member. I liked what you said about team projects, because I use that method to test my tables, especially originals. And while I have gotten useful feedback from various forums, most of the time it's from my testers. For my Reactions bagatelle, I asked players of mostly flippered games to give me some pointers, and Ice Warm provided a lot of help, and the release version was much better because of his input.

And Steve, you've made me realize that I should cool it about off topic posts. For now on I'll simply ignore anything that doesn't interest me. I've made a lot of friends in VP, and probably not all of them discuss pinball 100% of the time, so why would I expect that from folks I've yet to get to know. But you have enemies, that I find hard to believe. As for politics, now what kind of table can I make based on politics? Maybe have everything break down half-way through the game. Some very good points have been made in theis thread, thanks folks.

tiltjlp
 
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