Pinball Nirvana is NOT going to shut down...

I could easily add them, adding the descriptions to each on each download page would take time, and I'm not opposed to adding another Admin.

I forgot I had this, it may make things WAY easier!
http://roguepinball.com/index.php/topic,1.0.html

Wouldn't help on the table downloads though. But of the 1600 downloads, how many are Roms? No description needed there. But some are incomplete. I had to piece a few together a while back.
 
Should PN go to you, we should preserve the Maintenance and Repair subforum.
Also, I still like many of the Flash games here, and would think about preserving the current High Scores for those games.
You might want to ask Jon about acquiring the pinballnirvana domain URL for directs to any future site. That way, anyone trying to reach PN will find it at its new location, if that happens. EDIT: Except that PN sees a ton of Bots.
 
Should PN go to you, we should preserve the Maintenance and Repair subforum.
Also, I still like many of the Flash games here, and would think about preserving the current High Scores for those games.
You might want to ask Jon about acquiring the pinballnirvana domain URL for directs to any future site. That way, anyone trying to reach PN will find it at its new location, if that happens. EDIT: Except that PN sees a ton of Bots.

I don't want to give the impression that I'm entitled to anything, I kind of took that from your first line. I did PM Jon about the files, and I'm not opposed to populating my forum with PN topics added. But as I'm not too technically inclined, I'd need help with the forum stuff.

I can't take on more financial obligations right now as I'm going through a change of employment (don't get me started). I can say that I run Roguepinball.com for about 120$ a year. I use free forum software (SMF), and a filesharer for downloads. From what Jon told me a while back, it's considerably less than PN or other sites.

I said this earlier today at Rogue, but I'm open help as an Admin or Mod. My wife is a mod, but she haven't really had to do anything. I rarely get bots because I have security questions on signup.

Question: What company made the Game Firepower?
Answer: Williams.

I am a one man show because there isn't that much to do. Not because I won't relinquish control.
 
It's okay Itchigo. I'm only being considerate of Jon.
 
No it's ok. I just didn't want to portray the image of "give me the keys right now". I would probably offer up the Rogue were I in a similar situation. But PN is a big part of the history of this hobby. I'm just another guy doing this. Whatever Jon wants to do is fine, after all it's his site.

Tim
 
I'm very sorry to read about PN is going to shut down.
Thanks for being there all over the years.

Btw., greatings to all the friends here. I will check in here the next days again. I will see if I can help in any way to save any PN contents. Actually
just no idea. Talk to you later.

:cheers: :pint:
 
thanks

Thanks Jon, thanks everyone, Pinball Nirvana will be missed.
 
I'm sad... But many thanks to you, John.
And what about IRPinball?
 
jon said in the 1st post that IRP's hosting expires in one year.

that seems like a far easier thing to take over for somebody. mainly they just need to pay for hosting, i guess.
 
I was just pmed about this.

There is absolutely no way that this should be allowed to happen without at least some sort of effort, the only history of this entire community from the early days is here, and it's important to preserve that history.

This site is just as important to me as my own was, and I still count JPH as a friend even after all these years, and despite claims of certain people, I will do my part if needed.

The problems stem from the fact that this forum software is woefully out of date, and requires the latest version from the sounds of it as it will not run under the newer versions of php and apache. Because of changes made to the pricing structure, it is too expensive to pay for the updates, as there is no longer any life time upgrades as before, just a yearly one.

As well, the "front end" is now unsupported, and that database will be lost no matter what, and will have to be manually added in bit by bit. The forum software though may be salvageable, and it's possible that it can be converted into a new forum system. The arcade may as well, though again, everyone would lose the database. Of course that just means everyone will have to play more to get the new high scores.

If people want to stop talking and start standing up to help keep this site, or at least the contents, then I would be willing to do so as well. Despite my rust, I'm pretty sure I can remember how to set up the site from the back end, maybe setup a new forum and try and convert over the database to the new format and help with getting everything else in. I certainly could do with some help there, but very few people have that kind of knowledge so it may take a long time. I have no time to run anything beyond that, the entire process could take a very long time, so it would require people to take over this site and run it themselves.

I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, who else?
 
Well, gee, thanks, I guess, shiva. The issue for me is that everything you wrote after "The problem stems from..." reads like Klingon to me. When it comes to the forum software, I've learned to attach pretty pictures to my posts and that's about it. But, hey, if there's something simple-stupid to do... I think somewhere amidst the Klingonese there was mention of copying a database piece-by-piece... I could do that.
 
Okay, your right. How about this explanation then..

It's really really tough to do, but MAY be possible, but only for the forum. Everything else you would have to start over from scratch.

I've had to do this before, years ago. Best case, you get most of the forum back, things like avatars, maybe attachments are missing. Worst case it just doesn't work.
 
that's commendable of you, shiva. pardon me for my earlier ribbing.

i suspect that a 'rebooted PN' with new features (like the arcade and stuff) built around the preserved forum would probably build more fresh interest, anyway.

also, this can't be the first vB-based forum that's run in to this upgrade problem, right? i would think folks over at http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/ would have various solutions. it's very much in vB's own interest to make money off of this situation, after all.

speaking of the money issue-- hosting PLUS yearly license renewals? zoiks! but what if the database could be converted to work with one of the free forum platforms...?
 
That's what I am looking at, converting it over, and the short answer after researching this is no.

Though there are converters available, they are not for this version of VBulletin, there were too many changes made between version 3.7 and 3.8, and I haven't been able to find anyone that has been able to do it, at least not within a week, because that is all the time left here.

The best case then is to find a new server and try and transfer the entire contents over, fix any problems, and cross your fingers and toes it works. Then work on either paying the license fee and upgrading the forum software so a converter will work (I believe only phpBB3 can do it) or using the extra time needed to convert over to a different forum software. that extra license will add 150-200 dollars to the cost as well as a server.

The other option is to look at another paid forum that can convert it over.

I am checking VBulletin.com, there are only 3 people in this entire community that I know of that knows enough about this and has licenses but so far the cheapest option is to just get another server. Maybe I will stumble on to something.

I believe it is possible, if someone wants to run this site, then I will try and find them a host (I have a good one in fact, just have to check if it would work) get that person to set up a account (because it has to be in his name) and I will help out with the financial end. (I owe karma)

If the host I like works out, it's a real good server. Been using them for 10 years, I've had very few problems with them, it's shared but very reasonable in cost for what you get. Just needs to get moving pretty fast, and see if it's possible.
 
Hey Shiva, I use SMF at Rogue. It's a free forum software, and they make "converters" too.
http://download.simplemachines.org/?converters;software=vbulletin

SMF also supoorts an arcade mod, which I have. I talked to Jon a day or 2 ago, he was going to try to see what he could do to save the site. Failing that he offered the files to me.
 
thanks... good to know.

in any case, i'm more or less in the same boat as bill (ruby651)-- i don't have prior experience and haven't even programmed for a long time, but i'd be willing to do a certain amount of grunt work. i could also contribute a modest sum (say $40) to whoever wants to take over.
 
Okay, your right. How about this explanation then..

It's really really tough to do, but MAY be possible, but only for the forum. Everything else you would have to start over from scratch.

I've had to do this before, years ago. Best case, you get most of the forum back, things like avatars, maybe attachments are missing. Worst case it just doesn't work.

Thanks for all your work and research into this, Shiva. You've really put some thought and time into this, especially considering your "VP retired" status. I don't know how it will all work out in the end, but there's a certain sense of relief when a guy can show up and say "Hey, it's not all doom and gloom! I've studied it and it can be saved by doing..." And thanks for breaking it down and simplifying it for ol' Dopey! :oops:

PS: Oh, yeah... I'm going to pretend I talked to everyone here and that we all voted unanimously that you're our new leader and you can make PN an official Shiva Site franchise! Congratulations! Now get to work! :rockon: First rule is mandatory Trigon tournaments. It's been a couple of years, but I think I can still make the Top 10.
 
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Hmm... Shivasite (©™).:cheers:

I wish I could do more, but I'm in (I hope) the tail end of a job search. Not only that, I'm in the hacker skillset also. All of what I do at Rogue is either an installed mod, or minor editing. Minor editing as in look for the correct place to add a line or 2. I couldn't write it myself. But on the plus side I was able to make a FS version of Trigon...:clap:
 
My thanks to the comments. My issues before where with only a few people, not to the entire community, and I left because I was just tired of it all and it kept coming back no matter what. I no longer have that spark anymore to become active, it's a thankless job no matter what, and I owe it to myself and my son to be happy. I do care too much and that is the root of my problem as it will cause me to overreact, and I still do to a certain extent.

I think it is best that I do my part, what I can, and leave it to others. There is too much history here to overcome, and I never will be as effective as someone else. I do have my debts as well, and this is me paying up those debts by returning the favor and helping keep this site alive and going.

As to what needs to be done, these are the options available, and it is up to everyone what they think is the best.

1. Move to a new server. There is a very good chance the site as it exists will be broken, as I feel the issue is the forum software is too old to run on the latest servers. This version of VBulletin was first released in 2006, and has been completely rewritten twice since. The cost of the server would be 100 dollars per year, the one I like is all latest versions of everything.

2. If it is possible it is still working, translate and convert the forum over to phpBB3. It is the only other newer free forum software that can do it, but the process made me feel as if my brain was melting, it is very high end and tricky, and I haven't done anything like that in 8 years. Everything would be lost, it would preserve the threads, so all the content would have to be readded. phpBB3 is very difficult sometimes, and it would require experience from the admin. I have looked into SMF, the only version with a VB converter is very old, and I feel it is not capable of converting this particular version of VB. I am looking at myBB next, but so far no

3. Spend the money and buy a new forum license. The problem is VBulletin is dying, the latest versions just suck, and is now just not worth the fees. My suggestion is to instead of paying for VBulletin, it would be better to use the money (it's actually cheaper) for another forum software, that has the proper converters. I would suggest XenForo, for several reasons that members here would find appealing.
- XenForo was developed by the original developers of Vbulletin and after they sold VBulletin to Jelsoft. The software and use of it is very similar
- A very large amount of VB users have moved to XenFore, including a massive amount of plugin developers who have developed a few of the plugins used here.
- Because of that, the amount of support and additional resources is now greater than VB, and far more familiar to use. A lot of those plugins are now available for XenForo as well.
- and finally, because it is a very large old VB base, there is a converter available. It appears that far more things will be imported properly, like images and attachments, and it would be far faster process to get the site back up and running. Furthermore, I am looking at the possibility of free converters for some of the plug-ins as well, as they are available, but in paid packages (sigh, nothing is for free anymore)

https://xenforo.com/help/importing/
https://xenforo.com/community/resources/categories/importers.4/

the price starts at 140, but appears to have a option for 180 for two years support as well as other options, but we can do without them. There is also a demo there, I will get my sleep first before I play with it.
https://xenforo.com/purchase/

That's what I have so far. I see a pm (oops) so may have to update this.
 

Turn the lights off, bring in the bulldozers, turn this place into a parking lot.

I'm gonna put on "The Thong Song", and we'll tear this place apart.
 
It looks like the VBulletin 5 Connect (includes forum ver. 4) is a single purchase while the VBulletin Cloud is the one with annual licensing. The Cloud promises tech conversion upgrades from older versions, and other Clouds usually include the server since it is a Cloud. Is this correct?

On the minus side, VBulletin doesn't seem to support HTML 5 natively. I think any PN upgrade should do so, and I'd love to see the Canvas element made available for games and embedding in posts, mostly for fun. And, the Forum 4 software is not up-to-date. It's been left to flounder for some reason.

Is there any interest in offering Mobile interoperability? Apps?
 
Is there any interest in offering Mobile interoperability? Apps?

Absolutely not. But if you keep talkin' that techno, I may have a pretend vote that puts you in charge, since Shiva doesn't want to expand his empire through franchising.
 
Thanks to all for their comments and as I mentioned in a PM to Itchigo a few days ago, I feel bad after reading them. I just received an email from the hosting company and the php upgrade date is January 19th, I responded and told them not to upgrade but I don't think that's going to work because previously they mentioned that 5.3 will be removed from their servers.

Thanks also to shiva about his input, I was prepared today to just mention that the site was still going to close but am now on the fence. This fence is about my lack of time, not money, although that's limited. I wanted to clear some things up, shiva is right about the front page, nothing can be done to save it anymore. For years, my primary concern has been about the downloads and back in October 2014 the physical files were mass imported into a addon in the forums. The main problem with that is again, time, Screenshots, authors names, etc. have to be added into the addon program fields if vbulletin is kept.

About the forums, they will also stop working on 1/19, these vbulletin forums were actually a conversion from phpbb that was a success a long time ago. I'm not opposed to renewing the vbulletin license and as someone pointed out it's not an annual charge and would allow the forums to go up to version 5 but I'd stick to 3.8.9 so that the current addons would still work. That seems to be the easiest method of preserving the forums and 3.89 or version 4 could possibly run another 10 years or so. Version 5 or connect doesn't interest me right now but I will look into Xenfor in the future.

So to sum things up, in order to continue if vbulletin is upgraded I'll just need some time from folks in the forums download section:
http://www.pinballnirvana.com/forums/downloads.php
I'd work on it when I have time and would need some help and moderator or admin status will be necessary. By the way, the vbulletin downloads section is very flexible and allows the authors if they are assigned to change their own files.
 
So if anybody wants to preserve their Attachments from over the years, then I guess Now is the Time to save them to our drives right here at home.
 
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