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Rants at VPF


Pinball Wizard
Well, I hate to say the old days are back at VPF, but they certainly seem to be going that direction. I report a flaming post by Leo Wanker there and in return, I get a fracking ATTACK by Greywolf because I DARED to disagree with his point-of-view in a PM. He then escalated it and told me NOT to reply to him again in a PM. OK, so much for handling matters privately. I took it public next, of course.

The funny thing is I already talked to an admin there about it before Greywolf replies and agreed to just stick Leo on ignore. Greywolf decided to take this to a different level, though. I don't like being told a crock of BS, though so I mentioned I felt greywolf thought I was lying. Greywolf went ballistic and is now having a hissy fit there and giving me an official WARNING for calmly DISCUSSING the matter publicly. Apparently, he's saying he's allowed to talk about it publicly, call me a liar and a hypocrite and a troll and I'm not supposed to reply back by way of his official warning???

That guy should be removed from the staff immediately. You want to talk about an abuse of power? That makes even some of the old staff look unbiased. The guy obviously can't stand me (reminds me of how he went bonkers when I made a new version of Firepower) and cannot remotely be objective about any of this. Several people agreed with me that me calling Leo Wanker, "Mr. Wanker" is only adding an acceptable title (by society's standards) to his name whereas changing my name from PacDude to PacDUD is clearly and without a doubt a personal insult and theefore breaks VPF's policy of no personal flames. I didn't respond back to Leo. I calmly his the report abusive post button like I was told to do when I was reinstated if I had a problem and pointed out the obvious flame there and asked them to do something about it. They then told me I had to basically suck up to Leo's demands that I refer to him PRECISELY (down to the punctuation if there was any) by his screen name or face a D/A in order to get him to AGREE to stop calling me PacDud. And I'm not supposed to think that's a crock of steaming poo? Give me a break. They are supposed to stop personal flames there, not play Let's Make a Deal.

So now Greywolf is going bonkers and making up his own set of rules as he goes and I'm supposed to what, just sit there and let him?

Frankly, if the staff backs him up on this, it's going to be VPFF all over again. Gottlieb actually seems to have lightened up quite a bit lately and I have to say his forums are almost preferable to putting up with a staff that lets Greywolf get away with calling me a liar, hypocrite, troll and hand out arbitrary official warnings with no rule violation in site. He strikes me as being Leo's buddy, having a personal stake in it and frankly I think he'd like to see me banned for personal reasons alone. He should be removed from power immediately, IMO.


PN co-founder
I've been following the festivities at vpf, and it's one of the dumbest things I've read lately. I'll grant you that Leon was trying to insult you, but if it had been me, I would have simply ignored it and him. Not saying that you should have, just saying what I would have done. And, I'll be honest, when I used to taunt Leon over here and called him Mr Wanker, I was purposely insulting him, so it can be hard to know these things for sure.

I like Greywolf, but I would have to agree that he isn't my favorite moderator at vpf. My major issue with him is that he likes to use convoluted language, which can be and sometimes is hard to follow. Why not simply call a spade a shovel and be done with it, instead of appearing to talk down to 95% of the membership. Now I've called Leo Wanker Leon, sinply because Leon is shorter, and it is his real first name. So if I continue to do so, will I end up with a D/A?

So if you and an admin settled it before Greywolf got involved, I wonder if the admin you dealt with ever mentioned that to him or not. Either way, if you and Greywolf continue your running debate, would you please make shorter posts so I don't wear myself out trying to follow things. I can understand. given the track record you and Leon have had how you might get upset. I aslo think that putting Leon on Ignore is a good solution. Too bad Greywolf is on staff, or I'd suggest you alo put him on Ignore.

What I find interesting is that if two members were to have such an exchange as you and Greywolf did, the thread would at least have been locked to give both parties a chance to cool off. The fact that a moderator was involved shouldn't have changed that a bit. At least for a while vpf was anything but boring.



Pinball Wizard
Site Supporters
I put www on ignore, just because he's an antagonist. But I really have a lot of stuff to do so don't pay attention to the small things people can get away with, even when they make a small thing like a name into a big thing.

Isaac Sauvage

Site Supporters
hmm, can't get to sleep yet so might as well throw in a few pennies:

my rant against VPF is that it just depresses me right now. VP hasn't been updated for ages and i think that has sabotaged a lot of the positive accomplishments that people have made in the scene. despite the authors and VPM team kicking ass, the lack of real VP advancement through the years has contributed to a negative atmosphere overall. as in "if you're not moving forward you're moving backwards".

thank god for all the noobies in the scene who only show up at VPF to talk about pinball. VP is still fresh and wonderful for them and it seems like they contribute 99% of what positive energy there is around the place. OTOH, i wish pinball players had a little broader sense of humor and a little broader appreciation for off-topic subjects. i've been posting stuff in the outlane for years that at other places is mostly considered funny and/or interesting and gets some nice feedback. but at VPF it mainly just disappears, along with other fun things that i see other people trying to contribute also. have pinball players always been so stuffy and humorless?

it seems like the only threads that get the major activity are the ones with some kind of negative topic. someone has to be attacking someone else or attacking some other threatening idea, like ultracade or FP or the old mod debate or the ebay VP sellers etc etc etc. at best, we can only unite on something when we're attacking it together. how pathetic is that? that's the same kind of thinking that stirs patriotism during wartime, and the rewards are equally shallow.

where are the people around the scene that genuinely enjoy each others company? that can be playful and humorous with each other without feeling under attack? that can be witty and humorous and have fun with each other just by being themselves, without needing to blame someone or something?

so yea, this scene just depresses me right now.


Staff member
Site Supporters
Nah, I think it a bloody riot! :D

Honestly, pre school stuff, sticks 'n' stones.....you childish pathetic wankers. :p

Ah hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!


Pinball Wizard
Well, VPF seems to be going off the hook anyway, with all the stuff like "Oh plz call everyone by there FULL user name". But you cant really blame them with 100,000 users there is sure to be some bad apples there;)


PN co-founder
There may be 105,262 members, but I'd be surprised if we have 62 regularly involved members. Part of the problem, which shouldn't be a problem, is that we become familiar with the regulars, and form opinions and conclusions about most of them. Tudnut, who is fairly new, has some strong opinions, and although he is prone to discuss them, he sometimes seems to present those opinions as fact, and that makes for good debates with a few other members.

Leon, or Mr Wanker, or Leo Wanker, seems to think he is the defender of right and might, as he sees it, and in doing so, has developed a vicious bite. Pacdude, or the Dude, as I call him, enjoys tangling it up with almost anyone, and is seldom at a loss for words. His sometimes lengthy posts can distract readers from his real message, which I won't try to summerize here.

Destruk, one of the most helpful and knowledgeable authors we have, seems to be a bit worn out as of late. Rather than being his usual helpful self, he tends to be a bit short with folks lately. Amd then there's me. I tend to waver between trying to change things for the better, based on what I feel is better, and using droll humor to insult no one in particular, for no particular reason.

And when you have a small group of folks knocking heads, sometimes you're going to end up with a headache. Well, lately vpf has been giving me a headache, while also making laugh, so the people that I've gotten used to over the years are not only at times the pills that cause the headaches, but also the pills that get rid of the headache. So, do we laugh at each other or gang up on Leon some more?



Pinball Wizard
nicolas b wrote:

>VP hasn't been updated for ages and i think that has sabotaged a lot of
>the positive accomplishments that people have made in the scene.
>despite the authors and VPM team kicking ass, the lack of real VP
>advancement through the years has contributed to a negative
>atmosphere overall. as in "if you're not moving forward you're moving

I call that greediness. Practically all VP technical shortcomings have been solved during the years. And most recreated tables are indeed in very high quality.

I don't think you can replicate a pinball machine to computer much more efficiently and more enjoyable way than say, VPM Addams Family, Roadshow and countless other examples.

Sometimes I wonder what do these people want? Updates just for the sake of updates? Nothing is enough? Like having hundreds of fantastic tables for free?

>OTOH, i wish pinball players had a little broader sense of humor
>and a little broader appreciation for off-topic subjects. i've been posting
>stuff in the outlane for years that at other places is mostly considered
>funny and/or interesting and gets some nice feedback. but at VPF it
>mainly just disappears, along with other fun things that i see other
>people trying to contribute also. have pinball players always been so
>stuffy and humorless?

Part of the problem is the "family friendly" rule. I think many people have more "adult" sense of humor. Like me for example. I can't post some humorous and gross pictures to VPF that I constantly post to other forums I frequent. I'm not talking about porn but just ordinary "R-rated" stuff, like celebrities asses or good looking playmates for example. :) VPF has always felt like a church in that sense.

In VPFF we had a problem that some (only a few) idiots didn't know where the limit is. Funny that I don't see the same problem in most other forums that I frequent (again)...

I'm not saying VPF is the only forum that feels like that. I've seen people in watch forums get insulted because someone posted a picture of a "erotic" skeleton wrist watch by Audemars Piquet. I just found that watch ridiculously stupid. But it got moderated although it's a legitimate, expensive watch... sold by a high-end watch brand.

Not surprisingly, that same forum is almost dead now... the moderator (who's a mormon from Ohio by the way) has killed the atmosphere with his tightass views and laughable "holier than thou" attitude. These "Jesus freaks" are the worst kind of people...

>it seems like the only threads that get the major activity are the ones
>with some kind of negative topic. someone has to be attacking
>someone else or attacking some other threatening idea, like ultracade
>or FP or the old mod debate or the ebay VP sellers etc etc etc. at best,
>we can only unite on something when we're attacking it together. how
>pathetic is that? that's the same kind of thinking that stirs patriotism
>during wartime, and the rewards are equally shallow.

I've always said that people who complain about complainers are the worst forum abusers.

We get lots of people jumping to all negative threads... people who never contribute anything... or say anything... but when they see a "hostile thread" somewhere they're immediately all mouth and trousers...

Same people who always pop up from nowhere when there's a major car crash... they pretend to be "shocked" although in reality they hope to see some dead bodies or serious injuries...

Like in hockey... people say that fighting is horrible. Yet I've never seen them leaving their seats for coffee and donuts when the fight takes place.

>where are the people around the scene that genuinely enjoy each others
>company? that can be playful and humorous with each other without
>feeling under attack? that can be witty and humorous and have fun with
>each other just by being themselves, without needing to blame someone
>or something?

Like I've said before... for some reason most VPF regulars are more or less "problematic people". I think it's safe to say that more than half of the regulars are disabled somehow, have some kind of mental/real life personal problems... Nothing wrong with that of course, but these things obviously affect on their online behaviour.

I find it very strange that pinball community attracts problematic people. It would be nice to figure out why...


Pinball Wizard
Well, the lovely staff over at VPF decided to give me an official warning for calling "Leo Wanker" "Leo Wanker" if you can believe it. I didn't alter his name (I called him Leo Wanker) and yet I got a warning anyway (for "disrupting the forums". Yet Leo and Greywolf get away with calling me whatever they want there publicly. I've had it. That place is NOT fun anymore. They've sucked the life out of pinball playing word games and handing out D/As over NOTHING while ignoring the actual flames on there.

I'm seriously thinking about removing all my tables and leaving the place to rot. It's almost dead already. That should about do it, IMO. All the fun and life have been sucked right out of it over the past few months with them letting trolls run amok and flame anyone they want to while the few remaining authors are treated like the crap on someone's shoe.

Meanwhile, I can only think The Man From Post's name should be changed to The Man With His Head Stuck Up His Ass as that clearly fits his actions much better, IMO. Him and GreyDick can have fun having a 3-way pissing contest with their buddy Mr. Wanker.

It's just AMAZING to me that people like that can RUIN a game like PINBALL that is supposed to be FUN and enjoyable over petty power games.


Staff member
Site Supporters
Well you didn't like VPFF, you wanted moderation, we asked you to please desist and leave it at that but no you continued to ignore any judgement but your own....I think the only one pissing here is you, though prove us all wrong, go on put it to a vote. Guess not then you would have to say it was tampered with or rigged because you could not be wrong. It's a consipacy of 1, I think you'll find.....ho hum. :cry:


Pinball Wizard
I followed exactly what you requested. I called Mr. Wanker, "Leo Wanker" and you pissed all over me. You don't even obey your own rules. How many other people there have been discussing that issue. How many got D/As over it? HOW MANY?

Did you give Greywolf a D/A/ for insulting me 3 times over? He called me a liar, a hypocrite and a troll. I bet you didn't.

Did you give Leon a D/A for flaming me and calling me PacDud a hundred times on there? I bet you did not.

So take your BS elsewhere. Power corrupts and you are NOT the same person, SteveOz. You have your head up your ass too now. You take yourself way too seriously. You've turned a fun forum into a graveyard. You let dickheads like Leon do whatever they want while giving me lectures on not being allowed to refer to him with the title Mister. So I refer to him by his FULL name and I get a D/A anyway. You people are powering abusing jerkoffs. I understand now why Shockman has been so pissed for so long at the staff there. You do whatever you feel like and don't obey your own rules. You make it up as you go and act like biased losers. Kindly go shove it.


appropriate at this time
Don't get sucked into doing a poll there. You can't trust those.
If anyone, any ONE person that is not a staffer, or a Wanker (by name), thought you should take your tables and leave, you would already know about it.

If that does come to pass, you won't be alone. I, and I think others, will follow, maybe some just for support, but some for the very same reason.


Pinball Wizard
I'm tired of "forum politics". It's like being forced to watch court tv or C-Span all day long. No thanks. The amount of political posturing there is unbelievable. I report a post privately and I get flaming BS from Greywolf who flat out tells me to NOT reply to him again in private under threat of a D/A. So I mention I can't even discuss it on the forum and that he thinks I'm lying and he misreads my post and thinks I call him a liar and goes BALLISTIC (not unlike when he found out I was making a new Firepower table) calling me a troll, liar and a hypocrite with page after page of it. When I point out he MISREAD what I said, he laid it on some more instead of admitting he made a mistake. Did he get a D/A????

You know the staff there aren't supposed to be the Untouchables. And this ABSURD BS about titles like Mister, punctuation and bold text is just flat out CRAZY. That's not dealing with the situation. It's playing word games.

The fact is Leon intentionally insulted me on there when I wasn't even talking to him. He attacks anyone that says they don't like FP. He and I have NEVER gotten along and he has a history of personal flames to my person that FAR FAR outweighs my flames to him (which were primarily on VPFF where there were no rules). HE does it all the time on VPF and I got sick of him getting away with it so I quietly pushed the report post and asked the staff to do something about it. Instead of just asking him to lay off the flames, they tell me Leon says he will stop it ONLY if I call him "Leo Wanker" down to the letter (nevermind if it's a flame or not) and they actually go along with his little game and then beat it into the ground and Greywolf joins in with Leon. SteveOz feels the need to posture because his POWER has been called into question and The Man From Post abandons all reason and sticks up for the staff instead of doing something about their power abuse.

Same old routine. Same old VPF. Power corrupts.


Pinball Wizard
Site Supporters
You're going to do what you feel is the best solution to feel happy. I for one, will miss having you around, just to not see your posts anymore and the other things you do to help out with tracking down these obscure emulation bugs. You don't have to work on tables you know, but it's something you still enjoy doing. I'm not in your situation so I guess I don't see the same perspective.


Perfectionist Bastard
[Convoluted words? Gosh, John, and here I was thinking I was speaking English. At least I was trying to keep the picture on the broad scope of the conversation instead of picking nits over who had a ridiculous name and who didn't. For my troubles, I am told I am not addressing the issue (unless through the "reported post" mail, I misunderstood the issue), or I am told that I am either not doing enough or I am coming down too hard. So I guess I'm learning, since I've never been a moderator before this -- how's one supposed to moderate when coming down on either side is too extreme and coming down in the middle is completely ineffective? Just can't please everyone, I guess.]

Ahh, PacDude, crying to an audience that will listen. And because I am a moderator at VPF, I am vilified by the same people who have previously supported me. How'd I know you'd show up here and pull this?

Your logic was totally flawed and you knew it.

For the most part, I was refraining from pulling rank. And in retrospect, I shouldn't have. I was intending it to be handled from a more personal point of view, seeing as we so often clash. I will agree and I don't think it was fair for me to have attempted to pull the moderator card on that discussion. I knew I should not have done so as soon as I did. For that, I will take full responsibility. Go ahead. Flay me on that one.

Here: "I, Greywolf, most clumsily abused my power as a moderator."

And I apologise that you or any one person should have suffered that.

(I mean, seriously -- if you're going to abuse power, go big, ya know? :))

But back to business.

Posturing like a rabid dog? I would have been happy to rip you a new one whether or not I was a moderator, so stop playing the power card. It doesn't fly.

I don't know what a bully is? Bullies are only physical? Not so. There are emotional bullies, financial bullies, technical bullies, and so forth. A debater and a bully are similar in that they will key in on flaws and exploit them. The difference is that the debater will keep the matter relevant to the discussion, while the bully doesn't give a whit about relevance and will seek to turn the tables to his advantage regardless of keeping the points of discussion intact -- oh, sorry, using big words again. Let me retry.

Bullies don't care that the flaw has nothing to do with the situation. They seek to turn the conversation away from themselves so they appear blameless.

I stated that you were approaching the discussion with a bully's mentality. And you were.

And please, don't act like you've never trashed anyone before. You trashed me on VPFF and I see you doing it again here. It's like you're trying to rally people behind this great cause of holding a grudge against people you don't particularly like, just like you're *gasp* back in grade school again.

At least if I'm going to trash-talk you, I will do it in your presence and not go somewhere I don't think you'll rear your head. There are two reasons for this, the first one being that it would be cowardly of me to do so.

And you ARE a troll. A very very irritating little troll who likes nothing better than to stir up trouble over small, insignificant issues like names, and who cannot be bothered to listen to anything constituting reason if the reasoning does not fit into your small frame of reality. And as long as you can steer clear of The Line Not To Be Crossed and push out your little agenda, making your little digs at people, you figure nobody will ever do anything about it.

And you ARE a hypocrite. Laws of logic apparently do not apply to you if you disagree with them. Anyone who goes against you is an idiot, anyone who moderates something not in your favour is power-hungry. I hope I never find myself on a forum where you are a moderator because, personally, I don't hold that you'd do much better than I did in this situation. You'd probably be just as much of a prick as you perceived me to be, and with far less cause. So yeah, power corrupts (as much as I try not to let it, whether you believe that or not). I doubt you'd be immune, either.

And I was not joining in with Leon. I was telling you what he forwarded to me, and all you could do is stamp your foot and cry about it, saying that we weren't smacking him upside the head, instead of backing off and looking at it more objectively.

And you weren't angry. Oh, no. The Great PacDude is a zen master who never gets angry, even though the CAPITAL LETTERS and bold type indicate otherwise.

I will stake my integrity in every discussion I have. If I am wrong and can be shown so, I will take responsibility for my actions. I expect nothing less from anyone with whom I am conversing.

As I see it, there are three options:

You can grow some cajones and come out swinging and stop hiding behind The Line Which Is Not To Be Crossed; or

We can reach some sort of reasonable agreement by which we can actually get along (after we trade assaults,
if you prefer); or

You can go your way and I will go mine, never to speak ill of each other again, publicly or privately.

The first one seems almost likely. The second one would be preferable although I think it would take a lot of doing. The third one would be acceptable, although I have my doubts that you could realistically hold up your half of that bargain. I would be glad to be proven wrong.


Pinball Wizard
PD, think about why you are registered in pinball forums and stay there among other pinball interesteds/lovers.

You can't punish a few people you want to punish (which I don't want to misname here) by saying good bye. You wouldn't punish them by that, but you would make them happy.? You would adress your frustration/disappointment into a false direction and hit a wrong target.

And please stop the "Dünnpfiff" about the names.

Btw., I think it's unnecessary to threaten with the lack of your table recreations. Why do you do that? It was always doubtful after your last releases if you would ever release another table or a new version. Much people now have what they want or know where to find independant of VPF and AJ and probably don't care about new versions so much and can live without new recreations, even if they would be very welcome them.

However, do the right steps whatever they are.


appropriate at this time
'And you weren't angry. Oh, no. The Great PacDude is a zen master who never gets angry, even though the CAPITAL LETTERS and bold type indicate otherwise.'

Good grief Greywolf.

The man just capped the proper name. He could of used italics, I guess, but what is the difference?

Why do you want it to be like this?

"how's one supposed to moderate when coming down on either side is too extreme and coming down in the middle is completely ineffective? Just can't please everyone, I guess."

Good guess. but after reading that line, I'd say lucky guess. It's not easy to moderate BECAUSE you HAVE to take the middle. You have a choice to take one side, and a choice to 'rip the other side a new one' but don't be surprised when those that supported you in the past, and would in the future fail to support you on this. You are free to have your biases, and like one person more than another. But if you think you are free to show that as you have done, you must be a VPF moderator. Only there does it have it's own meaning, capped, shortened to mod. or whatever. If you are really tring to please everyone, well why did you just not ask, anyone anywhere could have told you that was futile. When you moderate, no mater how well, there is a chance that you will fail, effort on success. If you take a side, and express that side to the other party you have already failed, effort on failing. If you want to be a moderator, still, and I don't see why you would, at least learn to understand the word.

You would have all the support you want, and respect, if you would just admit that you made a mistake, then do what you can to correct it.

PacDude broke a rule you say. Fine. What was that rule? And who does it apply to?

If that staff is willing to lose PacDude and his work from VPF, then let us know why. He says he did not break any rules, and I for one believe him. He might have did something that erks you, but who hasn't except for Leo Wanker? He may have broke the guidlines, but so did Wanker. This is a big one. It's not going to go away.

You want to see limited options? I see four

VPF staffers will put some effort into fixing this. With or without your help.
VPF will lose at least two table builders, charter members, and their work.
The VPF staff will leave.
Fighting, to no end.


Staff member
Site Supporters
PacDude you were trolling for Leo Wanker and you know it, you did not just use his name, you abused it and you did not just type his name, you formatted it with bold tags in such a context that it did attract the attention of not only Leon, but many others besides.

Sorry, you cannot accept our decision, though it will stand and arguing about it is pointless.


Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
It's only a friggin' warning for christ's sake! You're acting like he was banned! The people in charge needed to make a decision (I can read the staff forums) They made one... Leon and PD will basicaly leave each other alone. It's not like the rest of us want to hear their bullshit that's go on and on forever. It was a simple rule or demand by the staff that was brought about because BOTH of them reported posts to the staff about the other. Two assholes (I happen to like both of them) that just won't STFU about each other. PD got a warning because he continued ON and ON and never STFU so he got a warning. The staff of 2002 would of banned his ass way earlier (and did if you remember) Leon must be a little smarter as he has at least STFU about it. I really don't see what's so fuckin' difficult to understand here, it doesn't affect anyone else, just those two loudmouths and even then it only effected them when speaking of each other.

For christ's sake I can't believe the fuckin' moronish way that some of you have about getting seriously involved over such trivial shit. I'm talking about the serious shit here, not the jokes as I can tell the difference. I supported the the decision to have Leon and PD leave each other alone and I also suggested to the staff that they make it public so we could explain it to everyone. I certainly didn't realize that so many members would be so stupid as to not actually read the first post where it stated the ruling was only for those two people and then turn it into a full screenname ruling that applied to everyone. A bunch of fucking idiots the whole lot of you are..... BTW, this is another reason why I couldn't be a moderator :) I like to say "fuckin' idiots" and the staff frowns on that :)

Have a nice Thanksgiving! BTW, remember that first Thanksgiving where we shared a wonderful feast with the Indians, I wonder if the current American Indian celebrates Thanksgiving. Hmmmm.....


Pinball Wizard
Greywolf, just look at what you're saying in that mile long post. You call me a troll again and a hypocrite again and you expect what from me at that point? To respect you for flaming me? No, it makes me think you are a fucking asshole. You want respect from me? Vis-a-Vis. I give respect to those that show respect to me. I treat you as you treat me. If you flame me and threaten me with D/As and other bullshit, I'm going to treat you just the same. SURPRISE. What goes around comes around. And people like Leon and Black have NEVER treated me with one once of respect on VPF. NEVER.

And you know damn well I'd talk about it at VPF except you and your power mad buddies are handing out D/As there now for ANYTHING I say. I followed the rules to the letter as presented to me. I called Leo Wanker, Leo Wanker. NOWHERE did it say I could not use italics, bold print or any other thing the message forum provides. Sorry, but if you can't state your demands clearly (on something fucking ass STUPID as telling me I can't use the title "Mr." in front of someone's CHOSEN NAME), then you can expect to be treated as stupid as you treat me.

You sit there and hide behind your moderator status and threaten to hand out D/As if I reply again to you in private (where BS belongs) and then pull it out in public when that doesn't work. You can't talk as Greywolf. You have to be GreyDICK, moderator ignoramous.

Why would I come here? Because you have no power here. I wouldn't be surprised if YOU were the one that created the PacFAG chat group on VPF. I mean that's the kind of BS I have to put up with there by the likes of Mr. WANKER and yourself. I've taken a LOT of bullshit from a lot of people over the years (most of whom are merely jealous of the attention my tables bring me, not unlike what you ADMITTED to doing yourself when I posted a WIP screenshot of my Firepower table) and so it doesn't SURPRISE me one bit when people like yourself play power games with your position at VPF. If I handed you a D/A for saying DUDE you'd be having a freaking shit freak out about it and flaming me all over the place. I know you would. You have a big temper. I was laughing myself silly when I put WANKER in bold there because it was damn funny in context of those RETARDED new rules that I can't use Mr. anymore no matter how STUPID that rule is. So instead of people getting a good laugh, you guys start throwing out D/As. Typical Power Mad Bullshit.

You act as if I should respect Leon? Why should I? He doesn't respect me. I don't go around calling him Mr. Masturbator or something like that (the equivalent of what he did to my name). So I call him Mister and Sir (I did the same with Gottlieb when he was flaming me) becaues that's the same I do with anyone I'm arguing with that I don't like. I'm not going to talk to them like they're my buddy. I'm going to talk to them like they're some jackass salesman that won't refund your money at Sears. You have to fight hard to not call them a cock sucker so instead you call them Mister Whomever, not "BOB" or whatever their first name is like they are your friend. You don't seem to get that, though. You think I'm calling Mr. Wanker that name because it sounds funny, but it only sounds funny because that stupid shit Leon decided that was a cool name to have. If he thinks it's cool then why would he be offended by it?'


Only a MORON could not see that he's playing games with you when he made that "request". He wants to see if you jump through hoops for him and you gladly obliged. You can't discuss things for long without exploding (try as I did to get my point-of-view through to you in PRIVATE) and told me I had better NOT reply to you again. What kind of fucked up moderating method is that? DON'T REPLY. CASE CLOSED. It's a crock of childish bullshit.

And don't pretend for one second you're not hiding behind your moderator status or I wouldn't have gotten a D/A for just using bold text on there. Hell you tried to give me a D/A just for TALKING about the matter publicly. What a load.

You want me to stop hiding? You stop hiding behind that facade of a moderator crap. If the situation was reversed, I wouldn't be handing out D/As for people giving their point of view on things.

Notice how Leon hasn't replied. He may have set up the "PacFAG" chat room (strange you can't check to see who did it; maybe you did for all I know), but one way or the other he doens't have to do anything because he has YOU and the rest of the staff DOING IT FOR HIM. And that's what's amusing here. Leon is playing you like a piano and you're going right along with it probably even better than he could have hoped. He hasn't had to say one word since the PacDUD thing because he has YOU to do it all for him.

Congratulations on being so blind.


Pinball Wizard
StevOz said:
PacDude you were trolling for Leo Wanker and you know it

No, actually I was not trolling for Leo Wanker with the bold bits (and there was no RULE that said I couldn't use BOLD there; it said I had to use his FULL USER NAME which I damn well did. If you must know I was making fun of your STUPID ASS MORONIC rules that say I can't use titles like Mr. on there or just use someone's last name. That is absolute BULLSHIT and you damn well know it. It has to be up there with some of the lamest bullshit rules of all time. THAT is why so many people were complaining because it's fucking STUPID.

you did not just use his name, you abused it and you did not just type his name, you formatted it with bold tags in such a context that it did attract the attention of not only Leon, but many others besides.

SO WHAT? I saw NO RULE about how I use italics or any other such thing. You said I had to use his full name and so I did. In fact, I was pointing out that a staff member (no less) was calling Leo Wanker, "Leon" and that was against the rules there. So hand yourself out a fucking D/A while you're at it. ALL OF YOU. You know damn well it's retarded to say I can't call him Leon. Oh is Leon less awful than "Mr. Wanker" when he CHOSE that fucking stupid name?

Man you people are lame to not see the obvious.

Sorry, you cannot accept our decision, though it will stand and arguing about it is pointless.

We'll see how you like being disciplined for doing the right thing (reporting an abusive post privately) some day, Mr. Holier Than Thou and see how you react when the staff tells you to go suck The Wanker's dick instead of doing something about it.

We'll see how you like having a chat room called SteveOz_THE_OUTBACK_SHEEP_BONKER set up there with an "oh well" type attitude about it all. You're a real riot, Steve.


Pinball Wizard
I second what Bob said. Give it a rest already... and let Leo WANKER and Pacdude have their stupid flamewars. Ignore it... both are respected and talented authors... same can't be said about most people who jump on their flame threads.

Let them fight... create a "Loony Bin" or "Junkyard" section at VPF and always move their posts there when the flaming starts. No big deal, most forums have that kind of section.



PN co-founder
Not having seen the PMs involved in all this garbage, I can only go by what I saw in print over at vpf. If I remember correctly, Leon called The Dude Pacdud at least a few times, and knowing the bad blood between them, I'm sure it was intended as an insult, or an effort to taunt Pacdude into a war of words. IMNSHO, Leon should have been told to stop with the Pacdud stuff, and that should have been the end of that. His request that Pacdude call him only by his full user name was bogusm because if it had been an issuem Leon would have mentioned it prior to Pacdude's complaint.

I can't assume anyone elses motives, but whenever I used Mr Wanker, I used it to provoke Leon. I started doing so when Leon started jumping on every other post I made at vpf, calling me a whiner, a troll, and so on. As far as I recall, I only used Mr Wanker over here, and it did have the desired effect, in getting Leon to argue with me in a setting where I could unload with both barrels. Now I tend to ignore Leon at vpf, simply because I preceive that for whatever reasons he seems to get away with more than most other members.

Except for the username BS, I still think that overall the current vpf staff is doing a fairly decent job. Hopefully with more time and experience they will be able to communicate better amongst themselves so there is less confusion and better thought out decisions.



Staff member
Site Supporters
Well Dude if it was not your intention, then I can only say you were being ignorant or just plain stupid, none the less in either case, still no excuse, in the end it's only a first warning and not permanent.


Pinball Wizard
StevOz said:
Well Dude if it was not your intention, then I can only say you were being ignorant or just plain stupid, none the less in either case, still no excuse, in the end it's only a first warning and not permanent.

And you wonder why I think you've turned into a prick now, Steve. "Just plain stupid?" Well, maybe you're just plain retarded to not see how stupid the staff has acted on all this. Obviously, Leon is special to the staff. Edited out two sentences that were unfit for human consumption. Try to keep it somewhat clean Dude. tiltjlp

Now THAT is a flame. It's too bad you can't see the difference between that and calling you Mr. Oz, regardless of bold text or titles. Whoooo. What a horrible offense that is by comparison.

Man are you guys MORONS.
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