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'Real' game size dimensions in VP?

ohmwiz

Pinball Player
I have a question,

I was reading an article somewhere on how a real game's dimensions (playfield length, width?) translated to VP. It had all different game manufacturers' games listed, and translated to VP scale numbers in 'actual size' and 'best viewing' size too.

Is there an actual formula for that? For example, a Bally 'Airway' is 18"
wide and 36" long. What would that be in VP?

I can't remember if I saw that here or in shivasite.

I will look for it - if I find the name of the article, I'll post it here.

Ken
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
If it's exactly 18" and exactly 36" then the ratio would be exactly 2 to 1 :) I don't think the acual size would matter alot as long as you kept that ratio, the default setting on a new table is 2000 x1000 and this would work fine. You'll need to play with the editor a little to get an idea how some things work. The larger the table size, then the smaller the ball and the higher you make a wall the further away the table will be which also makes the table smaller on the screen. There are many little things to discover, but first I would suggest to just blindly play around with the editor. Download a table and just play with the settings to familiarize yourself a little bit. There is a guide, I think it's called VGuide, that is a good source of info, but first try out a few tables and have some fun. If you don't like playing them, then you won't need to learn anything about the editor ;)
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Here ya go.......;)

EMs

Bally 70s EM - standard = 20.25" x 41.00" = 952 x 1927 vpus = 506 x 1024 bestpic size
G 70s EM - standard = 20.25" x 41.00" = 952 x 1927 vpus = 506 x 1024 bestpic size


Early SSs

*G System 1 - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus = 494 x 1024 bestpic size
Early SS Stern - widebody = 23.875" x 45.00" = 1122 x 2115 vpus = 543 x 1024 bestpic size
Zaccaria - standard SS - 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus = 494 x 1024 bestpic size
*Pre WMS Bally - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus = 494 x 1024 bestpic size
*Pre WMS Bally - widebody = 26.75" x 40.50" = 1257 x 1904 vpus = 676 x 1024 bestpic size
*WMS System 1-11 - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus = 494 x 1024 bestpic size
WMS System 1-11 - widebody = 27.00" x 42.00" = 1269 x 1974 vpus = 658 x 1024 bestpic size
*Atari - widebody = 27.00" x 45.00" = 1269 x 2115 vpus = 614 x 1024 bestpic size
*G System 80 - standard = 23.75" x 46.50" = 1116 x 2186 vpus = 524 x 1024 bestpic size
*G System 80 - widebody = 26.75" x 46.50" = 1258 x 2186 vpus = 590 x 1024 bestpic size


Modern SSs

Capcom tables = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus = 451 x 1024 bestpic size
*Data East - standard = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus = 451 x 1024 bestpic size
Data East - widebody = 25.00" x 51.75" = 1175 x 2432 vpus = 494 x 1024 bestpic size
*Safecracker = 16.50" x 41.50" = 776 x 1950 vpus = 408 x 1024 bestpic size
*WPC (through 1987) - standard = 20.50" x 42.00" = 964 x 1974 vpus = 500 x 1024 bestpic size
*WPC (1987 on) - standard = 20.50" x 46.00" = 964 x 2162 vpus = 457 x 1024 bestpic size
**Apparently at least one of these is not like the others.. I measured the Drac PF and it was/is 20.25" x 45.00" = 952 x 2115 vpus = 461 x 1024 bestpic size
*WPC - superpin = 23.25" x 46.00" = 1093 x 2162 vpus = 518 x 1024 bestpic size
*Pin2K tables = 20.50" x 43.00" = 964 x 2021 vpus = 488 x 1024 bestpic size

The unknowns...

Gotz (post system 80) - standard = ???
Early SS Stern - standard = ???
Atari Hercules = ???
Sega = ???
Any others = ???
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
Well, that list should really help out on those old Flipperless tables that Ken's interested in ;)
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
It should indeed, all one need do now is apply a bit of simple algerbra and...

Wait a sec, I'll just get my calculator. :p
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
All that's as clear as midnight to me, fellows. Here's my problem. I have an image of an old Linsdstrom 1934 Poker bagatelle. From the looks of the image when I put it in a standard VP table, it's maybe 20% shorter than the VP table. But when I shorten the VP table, the image remains 20% shorter, and becomes a short widebody. Any ideas?

tiltjlp

And yeah, I really want to do this one, it's very cool.
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
It sounds to me you need to resize and/or edit your source picture. To me it sounds as if the source image has 20% blank space at the top or bottom of the image. VP will stretch the image to fit the table so when you change the table size it makes no difference. I would need to examine the source image to be sure.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
OK, you asked fot it, bucko. I think I understand what you mean, but won't that just throw the proportions off when I load it into the table. Here it is. Maybe I'll crop off the bottom wooden frame, that might solve the problem for me.

tiltjlp
 

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StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
There ya go then you have all that blue space around the table. You need to cut it from the image like so. This is the image as is with the blue space removed. The proportions are of the actual table with this new image.

I'm no graphics whizz, though others are and the image could be improved by others. By scaling it up to a hieght of 1024, removing the slight distortion and cleaning up the colors.

Anyhows try this.
 

Attachments

  • linstrom_1934_poker2.jpg
    linstrom_1934_poker2.jpg
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tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Thanks Steve. I plan on trying to make it a bit clearer, but as for the colors and fading, I'll probably leave that alone. A 70 year old table should show it's age a bit, I think.

tiltjlp
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
StevOz said:
1" = 47 VP units.

So...

18" x 36" = 846 x 1692 VP units.

:p

Ta....Da!

:D

I don't think this should be etched in stone. 1 inch could equal 50 pixels or 75 or 35, whatever you want the final result to look like as long as the porportions are equal.

In John's picture example, you can still use his original jpg, but you have to use the jpg length and width for your porpotions and not the real table measurements (this means you adjust the table template if you're using one). I usually add a little space to my jpg's to make up for the rails and apron and the plungerlane or whatever I need for that particular table, but once again you have to use the jpg's measurement to size the table.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Good point Bob. If I can find the first picture I ever saw of that Poker table, I'll post it. I don't know if it was the Lindstrrom game, or some other similar layout, but it must have been 4 1/2 by 3 1/4 feet, and yes, it was a bagatelle. The picture I saw had it mounted on what looked like a ?wroth? iron upright stand.

Now, at the risk of seeming ever dumber than I am, how are some tables make vertically? Does that have to do with the X and Y settings in the editor? And if so, how can anyone other than a engineer figure that sort of thing out. I'm a whiz at basic ordinary math, but I flunked algebra in high school with a 37, and 25 points were simply for showing up for class.

tiltjlp
 

ohmwiz

Pinball Player
I saw that game myself around here - it was in an antique mall.
I saw a baffle ball? home game too - it is the same as the pinball without a 'box' and coin slot, it's a big bagatelle now. i was thinking about mounting it in its own box - the playfield uses the same parts as the pinball game.

Ken
 

ohmwiz

Pinball Player
47 to 1 is the formula? for VP? Hmmm...

You thought YOU was bad in math? My math teacher in 10th grade told me that she would pass me if I didn't show up... and she was my Drivers Ed teacher too. She hit the parked police car, not me...

Ken
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
tiltjlp said:
how are some tables make vartically?
tiltjlp

I'm not quite sure what you mean, do you mean vertical? Do you mean standing straight up like my Double poosh M Up?


ohmwiz said:
47 to 1 is the formula? for VP? Hmmm...

If your project is similar to a regular full size table than you can use that formula and get by, but try out that formula on a real game like Double Poosh M Up that measures 11" x 17" and see what the results are ;) You really need to go by proportion and not a set formula for pixels per inch
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Lousy rotten typos. I wonder if there is a Spell Checker module for this software. Yes Bob, I meant standing straight up.

tiltjlp
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
To stand them straight up, click on the Backdrop and then in the options set the inclination to zero and the Field of View at zero (this is how you can steal someone's graphics too, by then printing the screen) I set my Inclination to 20 on DPMU so the nails would be just slightly angled instead of only the head of the nail showing. The table slope is only for the speed of the ball dropping or like setting the gravity and doesn't change the tables appearance.
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
ohmwiz said:
47 to 1 is the formula? for VP? Hmmm...

You thought YOU was bad in math? My math teacher in 10th grade told me that she would pass me if I didn't show up... and she was my Drivers Ed teacher too. She hit the parked police car, not me...

Ken

Actually when thinking further on this, the 47 to 1 ratio is only for tables that use the standard sized pinball, ie all EMs, SS and DMD era pinballs, with a few exceptions.

It relates to the size of the ball compared to the size of the table. If a smaller ball is used the ratio would be higher. As many flipperless tables use a smaller ball, the ratio would need to be adjusted up, to make the ball appear the the correct size on the table.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Just wonderful, first I have to be a programming genius, which I'm not. And now I need to get out my slide rule, which I don't have, a calculator, which I barely know how to use, and almost be a whiz kid, in order to make tables. :p Does being able to color Inside the lines count for anything?

tiltjlp
 

scapino

Pinball Wizard
The figures I use are based on the standard size of the pinball.
I built a test table, and lined up a bunch of balls from side to side, and the figures I cam up with are...

ball is 1 1/16 inch. = 26.9875mm = 50vpu
1000 VP units = 21.25" or 539.75 mm
1 inch = 25.400 mm
1 vp unit = .53975 mm

Kurt
 
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