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Seawitch (Stern, 1980)

Seawitch (Stern, 1980) v4.22

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AnonTet

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Thank you:
@martinB and Jolo for providing the base and permission to mod the table
@GeorgeH for everything: support, suggestions, w.i.p. feedback and testing and final visuals tweaks.
@JLou5641 for support, suggestions, w.i.p. feedback, testing, shadowmaps and obviously DFv2
PN community which without I wouldn't be releasing this.

' Changelog 4.20:

' - New Dynamic Flippers v2
' - Added a loading screen and Wall
' - Added rolling ball sounds
' - New render lighting and shadowmaps
' - New physics
' - New spinner code (by Ravarcade)
' - Tweaked special1key and special2key menus
' - Sound volume adjustments
' - New bumper and slingshot sounds
' - Changed flippers and bumpers
' - Added Zed V8 Slingshots
' - New cameras modes follow table state
' - Overall tweaks and adjustments
 

Isaac Sauvage

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Finally I'm giving this a test run. (been a jagged couple weeks here)

I had to comment out the shadowmaps, because I was only getting 20+fps even after all the other tricks I tried.

I also happened to notice these script lines next to the shadowmaps, and am wondering if these make any kind of processor hit as well?

xBAM.SetBallShadows 0.0 , 1.2 , 0.4 , 1 , True
' xBAM.SetShadowColor 72, 72, 72

xBAM.SetShadowColor LeftFlipper, 100, 100, 100
xBAM.SetShadowColor RightFlipper, 100, 100, 100

Also found a pretty nice pic of the flyer, uploaded here and linked in the table entry. If you're not interested in that, @AnonTet, certainly just delete it.

TBH I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here, as I haven't played a real EM in quite some time. But there's a good number of Seawitch videos on YT, so that should help me out. Hopefully more specific feedback on the physics to follow...
 

AnonTet

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I have locked 141FPS in the drivers (144Hz monitor) on a gtx1080 so I would not know about such performance drop. If anything It can go higher on the FPS.

That got me thinking. I made a mistake. The shadow map .tga in the latest version IS WRONG... Let me correct that in a bit and see if that's the problem.

I don't mind the flyer thanks for that. It's a good addition.

/edit
@Isaac Sauvage
can you download v4.22 and test please. Also, if the problem persists, do comment the flipper shadow lines and let me know if the problem is solved for you. To me it makes absolutely no difference
 
Last edited:

Isaac Sauvage

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Hmm, that's interesting. With v4.22 I'm now seeing the attached.

One thing I should point out is that my current machine is not a gaming machine by any means. It's just a standard work computer with built-in graphics card, coming up on 10 years old now. So most users probably won't have my fps issues and share my need to scale down so many settings.

Specifically, I'm wondering if my general FP video settings (also attached) might be causing the playfield elements to disappear like that. I'd therefore think it good for a second person to test that for you.

I haven't actually commented out the shadow maps again, but I'm pretty confident that will boost my fps back up again. First things first, though. The immediate issue is to be able to see the table again(!)
 

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AnonTet

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When I get that issue it's time to restart FP. Other than that I have no clue on what might cause it.

Please delete any seawitch entry in the BAM\cache folder. make sure you don't have any "Future pinball.exe" running in task manager (yes really. i got this more than once so I always check when I have physics or render issues) and then launch FP again.

Another thing, I tried your settings. FP crashes. The option "Disable GLSL" shaders must be UNticked. Everything else being the same, it loads just fine.
 

Isaac Sauvage

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Okay, re-starting FP-BAM seemed to solve the 'black PF' issue.

Commenting out the ShadowMaps solves my fps issues up to a point, but for some reason v4.22 is only giving me ~60fps, whereas v4.21 gives me ~90fps. I'm therefore carrying on testing with v4.21 for the time being.

A couple immediate observations:

- I'm thinking the flat graphic of the Seawitch's face in upper left ("HudOVL") would look better if the purple bit was set to transparent. For some reason I can't find it in the texture manager though, hmm.

- I think the real-game bottom flippers are much thicker, and more importantly, a little bit longer than the ones set up here. The gap between the bottom ones is therefore a bit smaller than what we see. I did try to manually change the flipper models to a longer set, but FP-BAM crashed.

Also, a question-- if I wanted to remove the physics upgrades in order to compare against vanilla FP, I would need to delete the PHYSICS XML section, yes? But would I also need to comment out the section above it, like this:

'+++++++++++++++++ DYNAMIC FLIPPER V2 WITH VELOCITY CORRECTION +++++++++++++++++

Dim VelxCorrectionL12
Dim VelxCorrectionL23
Dim VelxCorrectionL34
...
etc
 

AnonTet

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I won't touch anything related to images. No knowledge on how to do that and I think Martin's resources are pretty good by default, including these.

Original table has no BAM, at all, so it'll use whatever FP uses by default thus, it is easier to just download the original from @martinB website! But remember, it's not just about XML (physics). It's about aiming accuracy and ball control that you simply won't get any other way.

You can try using the lower resolution playfield. The .tga alone should avoid the 1st time shadowmap creation which can even crash FP on some HW.

So for old HW like that and being totally blunt, I would recommend either using the original version or the obvious "you need a GPU on that PC" if the above fails.
 

Isaac Sauvage

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I won't touch anything related to images. No knowledge on how to do that and I think Martin's resources are pretty good by default, including these.
Ah no, that's not what I mean. My issue is that the transparency color (purple) isn't being recognised. (you can even see it in my last wonky screenshot)

I tried playing around with settings, but didn't have any luck. Same result with FP vs FP-BAM. Not really a big deal though, and something no doubt related to my setup and/or settings. Oh well.

Original table has no BAM, at all, so it'll use whatever FP uses by default thus, it is easier to just download the original from @martinB website! But remember, it's not just about XML (physics). It's about aiming accuracy and ball control that you simply won't get any other way.
Yeap, I tried Martin's version just now and was immediately reminded of how far BAM physics have come. The flippers were ridiculously overpowered and the ball shot around the PF like it was made of plastic. I can definitely understand how people who don't have BAM installed can say 'FP physics sucks' and that kind of thing.

Speaking of the flippers, I notice that Martin's original table has the correct flipper models. Did you swap them out with modern flippers in order to help the physics somehow?

You can try using the lower resolution playfield. The .tga alone should avoid the 1st time shadowmap creation which can even crash FP on some HW.

So for old HW like that and being totally blunt, I would recommend either using the original version or the obvious "you need a GPU on that PC" if the above fails.
Okay, I'll play around with these tables a bit more and see which one I can get the best fps on. I was already getting ~90fps on v4.21, so that's more than enough for me. My main goal of here really is just to test out the new physics and try to give some feedback on what seems realistic and what could maybe be improved.

Do you know if there's another thread here or at another site where people are giving feedback on Lou's DF2?
 

AnonTet

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I order:
I misunderstood the transparency thing. you're right. But unfortunately, I have no idea why it's not rendering correctly. surely one of the render options in fp might be the cause? My only render problems are solved by restarting FP (normal FP operation, much like windows but worse!)

Modding another table I found an issue (on THAT particular table only) that might be exposing troubles with the physics and MAYBE adding "weight" to the CPU because math not being solved or... whatever. Just speculating at this point. So, I might release yet another version...

Yes I have swapped the flippers but now I might add them again. The reason I did it was because they were giving me troubles. Since I've found troubles could be on my side (yesterday major Win11 update solved my fploader crashes so, no more win8 compatibility mode, yet) I will add them again (99% sure) but avoid 2 updates I'll have to solve this physics thing and try to repro it on Seawitch and other tables (I can't yet).

Regarding performance, FPS don't show everything. Anyway, since your monitor is 60Hz, you'll never see, literally, more than 60FPS. So try to get some graphics up. The important thing is to NEVER go below 65 (because of things but mostly because FP is old software. Just trust me on this)

There is not another site that I'm aware of this being discussed.
 

Isaac Sauvage

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Okay, thanks for the feedback, and I guess I'll wait until the flippers are swapped back to do more testing on this one.
 

AnonTet

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You can do that meanwhile. Chose T4 model on all of them. And you'll have to change the textures to match of course. just reading their names is self explanatory.
 

Isaac Sauvage

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You can do that meanwhile. Chose T4 model on all of them. And you'll have to change the textures to match of course. just reading their names is self explanatory.
Yeap, but will the physics you've set up make sense for those much-differently shaped flippers?
 

AnonTet

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I know the physics will be applied the same way no matter the flipper. The shape of them (or should I say the collision mesh created around them?) might.

Please try. If you can't hit every single target with using the bottom flippers then something is wrong. If something is wrong I'd say you'll see shots to wide (directly to the slingshots). If that's all it can be worked around :)

But I have yet to look at that.
 

Isaac Sauvage

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I know the physics will be applied the same way no matter the flipper. The shape of them (or should I say the collision mesh created around them?) might.
Alright, I guess I'm back to testing this one! (then to finish the Harry Potter update, then to get back to the world of @Gimli, assuming he's willing to work with me again, oof)

Yo, Tetracious-- after I restore the flippers to the originals, is there an obvious move I can make to restore the collision mesh? Maybe drag some stuff around in the editor?

Note-- I'm not used to fooling around in the FP editor, so the solution might be completely obvious, or it might take some real craftsmanship. Just that I don't have that experience / knowledge.
 

AnonTet

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I have my daughter writing this for me. because I had some construction at home and I'm not in a good shape.
BTW, who the hell is Tetracious?!

I have no idea about what you're saying. Just click a flipper, choose T4 model on the right drop-down menu. You have to apply different textures (they have t4 in the name). If in doubt, open the original table, click a flipper and copy the settings.
 

Isaac Sauvage

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As I said earlier, I know how to do that part. I was referring to something else you mentioned earlier that had to do with the DF2 physics.

In any case, I'll just shut my mouth and do some testing with the T4 models. Thank you for the feedback, and sorry if I was bothering you there.

Please be well, sir.

P.S. "Tetracious" was just a little American-style riff on your user name. No offense intended.
 

AnonTet

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I can barely move today. I think I have new muscles :D But it is worse when i'm stopped and then have to move again so here I am again.

I'm having a dejá vu here. Pretty sure this name thing was already explained! Who cares though :)

I had problems, but it seems it was a problem on my side and mixup with something from another thread at the same time. But yes, just swapping the flippers is fine. I already did that on my PC.
 
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