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Some Brand New Same Old

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tiltjlp

PN co-founder
I know some of you will share my opinion that the recent actions by Mr Fixx at vpf are a very bad sign. While I was sad to see Loaf quit, I sure didn't expect his leaving the vpf staff to become a black letter day. What bothers me the most about Fixx's locking and then deleting a thread at vpf is that until then, he had done very little as a staffer, at least that was noticable to us members. I wonder if his inexperience led to a very poorly thought out decision, or if he simply overreacted. In either case, if he is going to be the lead Amin, and this is an indication of his Admin style, vpf could be in for a battle like it has never seen.

Now, I had grown extremely tired of hearing from Shockman, but that wasn't reason enough for locking and then deleting the thread. That simply has given him more fuel for his rantings. Sad to say, but in my opinion, between Shockman, Shadow, and The Outlanes, vpf has sunk to a new low. It's amazing to me how little pinball is being discussed over there. At least those rant thread by Shackman and Shadow, as tiring as they had become, livened the place up a bit. For the life of me I didn't see any problems with what Kristian and Leon were posting, nor what anyone else had posted.

Apparently, strongly worded opinions are no longer going to be permitted at vpf, and if that's the case, it will become even more boring and stale than it had become. And while I was tired of hearing Shockman vent, I will admit that his contention that no everyone is treated equally is true. Back during the last big blow up a couple of years ago, I purposely tried to get banned, just to see how far I could push things. And while I got a few warning, I never was told I would be given a D/A if I didn't lighten up.

There was also a time when, trying to be funny, I sent Pacdude a series of flaming PMs. Eventually Dud and I made our peace, but I should have at least been put on R/O for those PMs, if not banned. So it does seem true that if you're friendly with certain staffer at vpf, you'll be cut a lot of slack. There have been several time since I returned in August that a vpf staffer PM'ed me unhappy with something I had posted, and once with a signature I had added. In each case the staffer, and there was more than one, joked about what I had posted as they were warning me to behave.

If I remember correctly, when Loaf took over as Admin, it was said that the vpf staff would have one year terms, and then us members could decide if they should remain, or if some of them should be replaced. As far as I know, that has never been discussed. I think that now might be the perfect time for such a discussion. But what I would really like to see discussed would be a new set of "guidelines", as they call them, but what are essentially LAWS.

I personally don't want to see vpf become even more of a cesspool than it has become recently. And while I like Leon, I don't happen to agree with his "if you don't like it here, leave" attitude. When I feel that something is wrong there I feel I not only have a right but a responsibility to voice my opinion. If Leon had his way, vpf would be left to sink even lower that it is now. I feel that those of us who aren't happy with what has just happened at vpf need to ake our opinons known. I plan to speak my mind, and if I end up either R/O or banned, well, that's better than simply letting things go from bad to even worse.

John
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
I agree John, Shockman's rantings have bored me, but he has always stated "either fix this situation my way or ban me" and no one on the staff will make a decision on his request. Simply stupid, if you ask me.

I'm afraid Lio has given up as Admin, he also was very good in trying to actually solve problems. If this was politics, it would look like the Republicans are back in office at VPF. It may not be long before the old fence is resurrected, I hope not, because I like being on the same side with Leo.
 
G

Guest

Guest
tiltjlp said:
I know some of you will share my opinion that the recent actions by Mr Fixx at vpf are a very bad sign. While I was sad to see Loaf quit, I sure didn't expect his leaving the vpf staff to become a black letter day. What bothers me the most about Fixx's locking and then deleting a thread at vpf is that until then, he had done very little as a staffer, at least that was noticable to us members. I wonder if his inexperience led to a very poorly thought out decision, or if he simply overreacted. In either case, if he is going to be the lead Amin, and this is an indication of his Admin style, vpf could be in for a battle like it has never seen.

Now, I had grown extremely tired of hearing from Shockman, but that wasn't reason enough for locking and then deleting the thread. That simply has given him more fuel for his rantings. Sad to say, but in my opinion, between Shockman, Shadow, and The Outlanes, vpf has sunk to a new low. It's amazing to me how little pinball is being discussed over there. At least those rant thread by Shackman and Shadow, as tiring as they had become, livened the place up a bit. For the life of me I didn't see any problems with what Kristian and Leon were posting, nor what anyone else had posted.

Apparently, strongly worded opinions are no longer going to be permitted at vpf, and if that's the case, it will become even more boring and stale than it had become. And while I was tired of hearing Shockman vent, I will admit that his contention that no everyone is treated equally is true. Back during the last big blow up a couple of years ago, I purposely tried to get banned, just to see how far I could push things. And while I got a few warning, I never was told I would be given a D/A if I didn't lighten up.

There was also a time when, trying to be funny, I sent Pacdude a series of flaming PMs. Eventually Dud and I made our peace, but I should have at least been put on R/O for those PMs, if not banned. So it does seem true that if you're friendly with certain staffer at vpf, you'll be cut a lot of slack. There have been several time since I returned in August that a vpf staffer PM'ed me unhappy with something I had posted, and once with a signature I had added. In each case the staffer, and there was more than one, joked about what I had posted as they were warning me to behave.

If I remember correctly, when Loaf took over as Admin, it was said that the vpf staff would have one year terms, and then us members could decide if they should remain, or if some of them should be replaced. As far as I know, that has never been discussed. I think that now might be the perfect time for such a discussion. But what I would really like to see discussed would be a new set of "guidelines", as they call them, but what are essentially LAWS.

I personally don't want to see vpf become even more of a cesspool than it has become recently. And while I like Leon, I don't happen to agree with his "if you don't like it here, leave" attitude. When I feel that something is wrong there I feel I not only have a right but a responsibility to voice my opinion. If Leon had his way, vpf would be left to sink even lower that it is now. I feel that those of us who aren't happy with what has just happened at vpf need to ake our opinons known. I plan to speak my mind, and if I end up either R/O or banned, well, that's better than simply letting things go from bad to even worse.

John

It's all in the eye of the beholder.
"Cesspool" is a bit strong. VPFF now there was a "cesspool".
The reason you can't get to grips with my "don't like it leave" policy is because you are still missguided into thinking that the "people" own the forum.
Not so. At any given moment AJ COULD (not saying he would) with the snap of a switch shutdown the VPF server and that would be that.
AJ OWNS the VPF wether you like it or not.
AJ appoints admins to do what HE wants to be done on HIS forums.
AJ gives these admins the power to act as they see fit.
It has been like that since day one.
Early in the piece i grant you some wrong people were in charge of the switch and I also grant you the deleting of the thread today was something I don't agree with BUT, I will not fly off the handle nor will I think any worse of any of the admins for doing so.
IT'S NOT MY FORUM TO TELL THEM HOW TO RUN.
I have NEVER considered myself "important" enough to tell AJ or the admins how to run AJ's forum and therein lies yours and others problem.
You are so full of yourselves that you all think that your way of running the forum is the best. Well you can't please everyone SO, the admins run it the best they can with as much balance as humanly possible.
Sure, sometime things get through the cracks BUT, to jump up and down about it like many have and will in the comming days won't make it any better. If you sit back and let it go you will see that most of this stuff isn't really that important in the grand scheme of things.
If something ever happens there that annoys me as much as you and Shocky or Pacdude or Kristian or Stevoz or JPH seem to be. Then I will take my own advice and not participate there.(It would take a hell of a lot I can tell you because I don't take internet forums THAT seriously)

Like I've said before :
If you go to a restraunt and you don't like the food they serve do you?
A) Keep going back there and piss and moan about it every day
B) Find another restraunt

[Opps, I must have hit the edit button instead of the quote button, and added my commnets to your post Leon. I've edited them out and will try for the quote button this time. tiltjlp]
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
What you fail to acknowledge Leo is the people are the forum, if AJ pulls the plug, then the forum will continue elsewhere.

btw I am not annoyed, never have been. :lolsign:
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Or the fact that this is just yet another group of people (5th group, 6th group so far) that are "running the forum" only to find out they are also human shields for all the shots that are aimed at the owner, who is perfectly happy to hide behind a rock and let them take the hits instead of him.
I won't comment on what's been going on there, (I did before, and all I got for it was to be shouted down) other than the fact that they are a victim of their own actions, or lack of them in certain situations. Personally, I just shake my head at what I know is going on, and just wait for the day when everyone realizes it as well.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Leo Wanker said:
tiltjlp said:
I know some of you will share my opinion that the recent actions by Mr Fixx at vpf are a very bad sign. While I was sad to see Loaf quit, I sure didn't expect his leaving the vpf staff to become a black letter day. What bothers me the most about Fixx's locking and then deleting a thread at vpf is that until then, he had done very little as a staffer, at least that was noticable to us members. I wonder if his inexperience led to a very poorly thought out decision, or if he simply overreacted. In either case, if he is going to be the lead Amin, and this is an indication of his Admin style, vpf could be in for a battle like it has never seen.

Now, I had grown extremely tired of hearing from Shockman, but that wasn't reason enough for locking and then deleting the thread. That simply has given him more fuel for his rantings. Sad to say, but in my opinion, between Shockman, Shadow, and The Outlanes, vpf has sunk to a new low. It's amazing to me how little pinball is being discussed over there. At least those rant thread by Shackman and Shadow, as tiring as they had become, livened the place up a bit. For the life of me I didn't see any problems with what Kristian and Leon were posting, nor what anyone else had posted.

Apparently, strongly worded opinions are no longer going to be permitted at vpf, and if that's the case, it will become even more boring and stale than it had become. And while I was tired of hearing Shockman vent, I will admit that his contention that no everyone is treated equally is true. Back during the last big blow up a couple of years ago, I purposely tried to get banned, just to see how far I could push things. And while I got a few warning, I never was told I would be given a D/A if I didn't lighten up.

There was also a time when, trying to be funny, I sent Pacdude a series of flaming PMs. Eventually Dud and I made our peace, but I should have at least been put on R/O for those PMs, if not banned. So it does seem true that if you're friendly with certain staffer at vpf, you'll be cut a lot of slack. There have been several time since I returned in August that a vpf staffer PM'ed me unhappy with something I had posted, and once with a signature I had added. In each case the staffer, and there was more than one, joked about what I had posted as they were warning me to behave.

If I remember correctly, when Loaf took over as Admin, it was said that the vpf staff would have one year terms, and then us members could decide if they should remain, or if some of them should be replaced. As far as I know, that has never been discussed. I think that now might be the perfect time for such a discussion. But what I would really like to see discussed would be a new set of "guidelines", as they call them, but what are essentially LAWS.

I personally don't want to see vpf become even more of a cesspool than it has become recently. And while I like Leon, I don't happen to agree with his "if you don't like it here, leave" attitude. When I feel that something is wrong there I feel I not only have a right but a responsibility to voice my opinion. If Leon had his way, vpf would be left to sink even lower that it is now. I feel that those of us who aren't happy with what has just happened at vpf need to ake our opinons known. I plan to speak my mind, and if I end up either R/O or banned, well, that's better than simply letting things go from bad to even worse.

John

It's all in the eye of the beholder.
"Cesspool" is a bit strong. VPFF now there was a "cesspool".
The reason you can't get to grips with my "don't like it leave" policy is because you are still missguided into thinking that the "people" own the forum.
Not so. At any given moment AJ COULD (not saying he would) with the snap of a switch shutdown the VPF server and that would be that.
AJ OWNS the VPF wether you like it or not.
AJ appoints admins to do what HE wants to be done on HIS forums.
AJ gives these admins the power to act as they see fit.
It has been like that since day one.
Early in the piece i grant you some wrong people were in charge of the switch and I also grant you the deleting of the thread today was something I don't agree with BUT, I will not fly off the handle nor will I think any worse of any of the admins for doing so.
IT'S NOT MY FORUM TO TELL THEM HOW TO RUN.
I have NEVER considered myself "important" enough to tell AJ or the admins how to run AJ's forum and therein lies yours and others problem.
You are so full of yourselves that you all think that your way of running the forum is the best. Well you can't please everyone SO, the admins run it the best they can with as much balance as humanly possible.
Sure, sometime things get through the cracks BUT, to jump up and down about it like many have and will in the comming days won't make it any better. If you sit back and let it go you will see that most of this stuff isn't really that important in the grand scheme of things.
If something ever happens there that annoys me as much as you and Shocky or Pacdude or Kristian or Stevoz or JPH seem to be. Then I will take my own advice and not participate there.(It would take a hell of a lot I can tell you because I don't take internet forums THAT seriously)

Like I've said before :
If you go to a restraunt and you don't like the food they serve do you?
A) Keep going back there and piss and moan about it every day
B) Find another restraunt

[Opps, I must have hit the edit button instead of the quote button, and added my commnets to your post Leon. I've edited them out and will try for the quote button this time. tiltjlp]

***

If vpf were a restraunt, you're comments would make sense Leon, but as Steve said, the memebers make vpf what it is, and when I see something I feel is wrong, I'm going to try to improve it, rather than sit back all smug and snipe at everyone who doesn't behave like Mary Sunshine.

Our forum is what I feel vpf should be like. We have one rule, and that is the respect your fellow members enough not to make a complete fool of yourself. We have have some debates and disscussions that would never be permitted at vpf, and nothing in any of those threads were edited, locked, or deleted, and the sky hasn't fallen in yet.

I'll give you a good example of the difference here and at cetain other VP forums. Remember Aristocrat? He made a complete and utter fool of himself, and was rightfully banned at vpf. shiva went and banned him in advance to avoid possible problems. We didn't ban him, but since he was banned at the other two forums, I think he thought he was banned here too, because he made several posts as a "guest", and when I didn't overreact, he simply lost interest and left on his own.

We also don't have any word censors in place, and things have not gotten out of control. As a writer and editor, I know the power of the written word, and that power on a forum is zero, unless those who run the forum give them power by overreacting. Steve and I are the perfect admins and moderators, I think, because we both have a good enough sense of humor that we can and do see past the rants and raves that pop up. And rather than watching when a discussion heats up, for a chance to flex our authority, we've right in the middle of the debate, enjoying ourselves.

I do agree with you that these are mere Internet fprums. But you seem to think that whatever half-baked rules those who run the forums make are perfectly OK. On the other hand, Jon and I are of the opinion that common sense and respect go a lot further than strong-arm tactics, and Steve feels the same way.

Now if this was vpf, and I was in charge, I'd probably ban you just to show you how important I was. But since this is PN, I invite you to visit more other and mix it up with the rest of us. I think my way of doing things is the only way to fly.

John
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
shiva said:
Or the fact that this is just yet another group of people (5th group, 6th group so far) that are "running the forum" only to find out they are also human shields for all the shots that are aimed at the owner, who is perfectly happy to hide behind a rock and let them take the hits instead of him.
I won't comment on what's been going on there, (I did before, and all I got for it was to be shouted down) other than the fact that they are a victim of their own actions, or lack of them in certain situations. Personally, I just shake my head at what I know is going on, and just wait for the day when everyone realizes it as well.

I couldn't agree more with you that the real problem is AJ and his Hands Off approach. We're always hearing how busy he is, but I notice him online fairly often when he could, or maybe even should post in response to a question or a problem, but he doesn't. The whole key is that the people in charge have to be there, or at least have someone with some common sense in charge if and when they can't be online.

John
 
G

Guest

Guest
StevOz said:
What you fail to acknowledge Leo is the people are the forum, if AJ pulls the plug, then the forum will continue elsewhere.

btw I am not annoyed, never have been. :lolsign:

True BUT, the people are also the party.
However you are still in someone elses home.
If the owner of said home doesn't like the way you behave then you have to choose stay and behave or leave.
Also if the said owner of the party house decides that the party is over then sure the party can move to another house BUT, you will still be governed by the next owners view of behaviour and if you don't like their ideas on behaviour then you will be faced with the same choices.
Unless, of course, you make your own home the party home then you can make the rules on behaviour to suit youself.

The VPF is AJ's "home"

@ Shiva:
Yep you are correct but, they knew the job was dangerous when they took it. Don't you think it is up to the individuals who occupy the admin positions to decide for themselves if they can/cannot live with AJ being so long AWOL?

@ John

So how would you handle it if AJ did turn up and said he is flat out happy with how the admins are handling the forums?
 
G

Guest

Guest
tiltjlp said:
If vpf were a restraunt, you're comments would make sense Leon, but as Steve said, the memebers make vpf what it is, and when I see something I feel is wrong, I'm going to try to improve it, rather than sit back all smug and snipe at everyone who doesn't behave like Mary Sunshine.

Our forum is what I feel vpf should be like. We have one rule, and that is the respect your fellow members enough not to make a complete fool of yourself. We have have some debates and disscussions that would never be permitted at vpf, and nothing in any of those threads were edited, locked, or deleted, and the sky hasn't fallen in yet.

I'll give you a good example of the difference here and at cetain other VP forums. Remember Aristocrat? He made a complete and utter fool of himself, and was rightfully banned at vpf. shiva went and banned him in advance to avoid possible problems. We didn't ban him, but since he was banned at the other two forums, I think he thought he was banned here too, because he made several posts as a "guest", and when I didn't overreact, he simply lost interest and left on his own.

We also don't have any word censors in place, and things have not gotten out of control. As a writer and editor, I know the power of the written word, and that power on a forum is zero, unless those who run the forum give them power by overreacting. Steve and I are the perfect admins and moderators, I think, because we both have a good enough sense of humor that we can and do see past the rants and raves that pop up. And rather than watching when a discussion heats up, for a chance to flex our authority, we've right in the middle of the debate, enjoying ourselves.

I do agree with you that these are mere Internet fprums. But you seem to think that whatever half-baked rules those who run the forums make are perfectly OK. On the other hand, Jon and I are of the opinion that common sense and respect go a lot further than strong-arm tactics, and Steve feels the same way.

Now if this was vpf, and I was in charge, I'd probably ban you just to show you how important I was. But since this is PN, I invite you to visit more other and mix it up with the rest of us. I think my way of doing things is the only way to fly.

John

That is all well and good John because THIS IS YOUR PLACE so, you can make it the way you want it.
The VPF is AJ's place.
It doesn't matter if you think it's good, bad or indiffrent. you either have to live with it or not as Shiva pointed out AJ is quite happy to let the admins run (and take the heat) of what goes on.
What I STILL can't understand is why these people can be so unhappy with something for so long (years in some cases) and yet they KEEP GOING BACK THERE????
It's like cutting a hole in a fence and then putting a sign above it saying "danger do not put finger in hole or it will be cut off" and these people turn up every day and stick they're finger into the hole and then stand there complaining that they're finger is being cut off to the person that owns the fence when you know that the person that owns the fence is not going to do anything.
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Leo Wanker said:
StevOz said:
What you fail to acknowledge Leo is the people are the forum, if AJ pulls the plug, then the forum will continue elsewhere.

btw I am not annoyed, never have been. :lolsign:

True BUT, the people are also the party.
However you are still in someone elses home.
If the owner of said home doesn't like the way you behave then you have to choose stay and behave or leave.
Also if the said owner of the party house decides that the party is over then sure the party can move to another house BUT, you will still be governed by the next owners view of behaviour and if you don't like their ideas on behaviour then you will be faced with the same choices.
Unless, of course, you make your own home the party home then you can make the rules on behaviour to suit youself.

The VPF is AJ's "home"

@ Shiva:
Yep you are correct but, they knew the job was dangerous when they took it. Don't you think it is up to the individuals who occupy the admin positions to decide for themselves if they can/cannot live with AJ being so long AWOL?

@ John

So how would you handle it if AJ did turn up and said he is flat out happy with how the admins are handling the forums?

No problem, the code of behaviour you speak of, is in their guidelines, none of which I have ever broken, unlike yourself.
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
First off, I'm gonna correct you John. Yeap, I knew he was trouble after the insulting PM to me. Want to hear the kicker? I actually took the time and warned the staff at VPF a week before he became a problem. Still took them 2 days afterwards though.

And as to what you said Leo, well, maybe if those admins knew what had gone on before them, they may not have wanted the job. You see, this is how it works. New Staff, big meeting, AJ makes a whole bunch of promises, one year later, everyone realizes that not one of those promises are kept, end up getting used as target practice because the person who is actually responsible is never around, or too busy being "busy", so that group of people quit in disgust, new staff are found, big meeting... etc
Way I look at it, if there are only two people left in the world, and one of them is me, and the rule is that one of us has to wear a big pointed object placed on top of his head, have a bullseye painted on a shirt that was made for someone else to wear, and have the word "sucker" painted on his forehead, well, needless to say, I don't wear hats. :)
 
G

Guest

Guest
StevOz said:
Leo Wanker said:
StevOz said:
What you fail to acknowledge Leo is the people are the forum, if AJ pulls the plug, then the forum will continue elsewhere.

btw I am not annoyed, never have been. :lolsign:

True BUT, the people are also the party.
However you are still in someone elses home.
If the owner of said home doesn't like the way you behave then you have to choose stay and behave or leave.
Also if the said owner of the party house decides that the party is over then sure the party can move to another house BUT, you will still be governed by the next owners view of behaviour and if you don't like their ideas on behaviour then you will be faced with the same choices.
Unless, of course, you make your own home the party home then you can make the rules on behaviour to suit youself.

The VPF is AJ's "home"

@ Shiva:
Yep you are correct but, they knew the job was dangerous when they took it. Don't you think it is up to the individuals who occupy the admin positions to decide for themselves if they can/cannot live with AJ being so long AWOL?

@ John

So how would you handle it if AJ did turn up and said he is flat out happy with how the admins are handling the forums?

No problem, the code of behaviour you speak of, is in their guidelines, none of which I have ever broken, unlike yourself.

Well I find that hard to believe.
I'm sure if I could be bothered looking I'd find at least one post where you have breached the guidelines.

If you go to someone elses party and the host hands you a sheet of paper with party "guidelines" on it like:
NO PISSIN ON CARPET
NO SPEWING
NO SWEARING
NO PUTTING CIGARETTES OUT ON SOFA.
Then later that night you observe the hosts best friend saying f*** this and c*** that and the host just laughs.
Later still you say f*** this and c*** that and the host hears you and tells you to stop it or leave.
You rightly argue that the "guidelines" were breached by his friend with no warning but, in the end it's STILL the hosts house and if he wants to breach his own "guidelines" then it is his right to do so.
Which brings me back to my original point:
Do you let it go and enjoy the other aspects of the party?
OR
Leave and find another party?
OR
Piss and moan until the host throws you out?
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Believe what you will Leo and go look, should keep you busy for days. :)

Your really grasping at straws with these far fetched analogies.

I would say none of the above options is viable.

I would discuss the matter in a impartial adult way, until an agreement was arrived at.
 
G

Guest

Guest
StevOz said:
Believe what you will Leo and go look, should keep you busy for days. :)

Your really grasping at straws with these far fetched analogies.

I would say none of the above options is viable.

Far fetched? I don't think so.
Just substitute host/AJ
party/VPF
Then you have the situation being complained about.

StevOz said:
I would discuss the matter in a impartial adult way, until an agreement was arrived at.

What if the host wasn't interested in what you had to say (which seems to be the case at hand)
Then your left with my 3 options again.

Like I said to Kristian there are at least a dozen forums I seen or had been a regular visitor to over the years that are FAR more regemented than the VPF will ever be.
You even look like being a whiner or troublemaker and they (without hesitation or right of reply) edit/delete/RO/Ban your ass.
Yet these places are just as popular as the VPF and lots of good gets done.
They stick to the subject at hand.
I'm not saying that sort of moderation is right or wrong. Just that it is THEY'RE right to run THEY'RE forum as THEY please.
 

StevOz

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Yes Leo they can run the place as they please, just like Suddam ran Iraq. If you really want to go in for far fetched analogies.

Yes there are many other forums, what of it..

Then again I used to belong to another forum, it was an absolute riot, half their membership were moderators, strangley enough it closed.

Then again there is http://www.fruitforums.com/vb/ where no moderation occurs and it's still going strong. Whilst Poundrun the serious, strictly moderated emulation only forum, where the admin did as they pleased closed.

Oh and in answer to your modified analogy, If the host would not listen to reason, then I would not bother with him. I would convince the majority of the patrons to come with me to a better party and they would, it's been done before.

Also Leo you should not second guess as to whether the host is interested in what I have to say, you've made that mistake more then once. ;)
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Well, I woke up this morning to see VPF in a even bigger mess than it was yesterday. Guess I was wrong, wasn't a year, took only 10 months this time. Lets see, the main admin for the last 10 months, the second admin currently there is stating he is leaving, and a moderator. Not bad for about 24 hours.
I don't think people understand this. I have respect for the staff at VPF, but if they were my staff, I would never allow the stuff that has/is happening right now. The thing is it wouldn't anyway, because my staff knows I'm around, and they have direction, clarity, and my support for their actions.
What a frigging mess, and you know what? It's AJ's fault. Simple as that. But if you think he really cares, well, has he cared enough to do anything before? VPF is not important to him, it's still there for a reason, and I think that reason has nothing to do with the community, or pinball.
If one of you can tell me different, then please do so
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Leo Wanker said:
@ John

So how would you handle it if AJ did turn up and said he is flat out happy with how the admins are handling the forums?

Well, I would quit lobbying for change, and spend a lot less time at vpf.

John
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Leo, if I was AJ, I would post that, and why shouldn't he? He hasn't have to do a damn thing in 4 years, he has someone else do it for him, and with no work unless the server dies. He hasn't even updated the software, it's 4 years old, it's not even supported, and I believe his license expired. Hell, I would be pleased as punch, especially if I had someone to work under those conditions, take all the blame when it should be on him, not mind being handcuffed, and accept a whole bunch of promises that will never be kept.
hey, I would love to just sit back, let someone else do my job for me, rake in a little extra money, and not have to do a damn thing for 6 months, and then make one post so half the members can do cartwheels in the street, without actually questioning anything.
 

PacDude

Pinball Wizard
The VPF is AJ's "home"

Except that AJ is never around. Even if he was, would he care? We really don't know. The staff runs the place and it pretty much always has. Given AJ doesn't care what they do and the people that run the board DO care how it's run, it still comes back to the people on the board. I don't recall too many complaning when Loafer ran the place (save maybe Shockman).

As for Shockman, I don't know why they don't just deal with him. Instead of locking threads and then moving them into archive like we're all a bunch of 1st graders being group punished, why the heck don't they just give Shockman an answer and be done with it? It shouldn't take months or years to handle it.

I don't know about the original cause, but it's clear he's threatened the place at least twice since then and bypassed the word filter several times and nothing has been done. Either he should count his lucky stars they did NOT act when they COULD have acted on those accounts or they should just say, we've dropped your original warnings as requested but applied X amount based on your offenses since then. I don't think anyone could argue with that.

Phoenixx just bypassed the word filter also. Hey, do your jobs people. Just do them properly. Some people are more upset about imbalanced treatment than anything else. Don't bypass the moderator/admin rules and guidelines along the way and maybe the people won't complain. That issue should have been handled via PM as the guidelines stated and IF the thread was locked for 24 hours despite that, it should have been reopened, not moved to an archived area (or worse yet if it had been totally deleted).

Problems arise when only SOME people are picked on there. Last time around it was me while Gravitar, Cowboy, Gottlieb, KC, etc. were allowed to do whatever they wanted to with little or no repercussions. This time they seem to be picking out other people. So I'm not too upset about Gravitar asking to have his account deleted as it's pretty obvious that it's just a powerplay to try and force VPF to return to hardline behavior and hopefully get one of his friends running the place again. But I don't recall Loafter playing favorites at all. He was pretty good at his job and he would talk to me even when I was banned while other staff would just laugh at me. We don't need THEM back again.
 
G

Guest

Guest
shiva said:
Leo, if I was AJ, I would post that, and why shouldn't he? He hasn't have to do a damn thing in 4 years, he has someone else do it for him, and with no work unless the server dies. He hasn't even updated the software, it's 4 years old, it's not even supported, and I believe his license expired. Hell, I would be pleased as punch, especially if I had someone to work under those conditions, take all the blame when it should be on him, not mind being handcuffed, and accept a whole bunch of promises that will never be kept.
hey, I would love to just sit back, let someone else do my job for me, rake in a little extra money, and not have to do a damn thing for 6 months, and then make one post so half the members can do cartwheels in the street, without actually questioning anything.

I agree with you.
I am not about "defending" AJ's inactions. (dispite what you might think)
The only thing I'm about is pointing out that you can piss and moan about it ALL the live day long and it hasn't made a rats clacker of difference.
SO.........................
What are you going to do about it?
As far as I can see we all have only 2 choices:

Live with it or
Find alternative arrangements
Or do you (and others) plan to piss on about it for another 4 years in the benign hope that it will change while in the meantime that same pissing on is what is giving those who have selected the first option the absolute shits and causing the "conflicts" that spring up from time to time.

I chose the first option only because the VPF is nothing more than an internet forum to me. I have been (and still are) a member of heaps of those and I have been banned from a couple too.
One I deserved it the other I didn't.
However I didn't join another forum and piss and moan and cry about it.
I just forgot about it and did something else.
I will no doubt be there when the VPF draws it's last breath and when it does I will throw some dirt on it and move on. (hands up who wants me?? Shiva.... John)
Also when and if it dies i WILL NOT think any less of AJ or the admins.
It's AJ's site and if he wants to run it into the ground then so be it.
I know I would hate to have any one of you lot coming into my house everyday and telling me you wanted the carpet colour changed.
I'd say "Sod off it's my bloody house".
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Actually Leo, I do do something about it, have for over 6 years.
And as to pissing and moaning, you forget a couple things. I can only talk about certain stuff, and not abuse my privledges, I've done it since the beginning, and the reason I do it is because of trust.

AJ knows that, that's why you have this mess now. I stopped him from certain things, but I couldn't stop him completely, because at that time, I had personal problems to take care of, and when I was able to get back, well, I saw my name, my reputation, and even my site dragged throught the mud, because of what would become VPF.

You know what, I feel guity as hell about this. I may not be part of VPF, but I am a grandfather of this community, and I failed as a "parent". I could have made things better, I trusted people that I shouldn't have, and then I didn't speak up when I had the chance, even though by then, no one would have listened.

Your right though,it is just a internet forum. Everyone there thinks it's the community pinball forum though, when all it is is a forum that a community uses, but the fact that it's about pinball doesn't make the slightest difference to the person that matters
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
In the best of times lately, maybe 60% of the posts have been about pinball, and the past few days about 15%. You are right about one thing Leon, trying to discuss possible changes for the better haven't worked, so I think I'll quit bashing my head against the wall over there. Let the whole thing become an Outlanes for all I care. Byt the way, what color is your carpet?

John
 
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Guest

Guest
shiva said:
Actually Leo, I do do something about it, have for over 6 years.
And as to pissing and moaning, you forget a couple things. I can only talk about certain stuff, and not abuse my privledges, I've done it since the beginning, and the reason I do it is because of trust.

AJ knows that, that's why you have this mess now. I stopped him from certain things, but I couldn't stop him completely, because at that time, I had personal problems to take care of, and when I was able to get back, well, I saw my name, my reputation, and even my site dragged throught the mud, because of what would become VPF.

You know what, I feel guity as hell about this. I may not be part of VPF, but I am a grandfather of this community, and I failed as a "parent". I could have made things better, I trusted people that I shouldn't have, and then I didn't speak up when I had the chance, even though by then, no one would have listened.

Your right though,it is just a internet forum. Everyone there thinks it's the community pinball forum though, when all it is is a forum that a community uses, but the fact that it's about pinball doesn't make the slightest difference to the person that matters

Actually the "pissin and moanin" stuff was directed at those at the VPF who do it. So I am sorry if you thought it was you I was talking about.

Also. There is NO WAY you could be held responsible for ANY of the crap going on.
I blame the petty, politically minded twerps who can't be bothered getting a REAL life and make forum life they're only life.
Those sorry losers are the ones who don't take a forum for what it is really. Just a forum.
It doesn't matter what side of the politcal fence you are: POLITICS SUCK and have no place on a forum.

Shiva: YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME. (at least not in my eyes)
 
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Guest

Guest
tiltjlp said:
In the best of times lately, maybe 60% of the posts have been about pinball, and the past few days about 15%. You are right about one thing Leon, trying to discuss possible changes for the better haven't worked, so I think I'll quit bashing my head against the wall over there. Let the whole thing become an Outlanes for all I care. Byt the way, what color is your carpet?

John

FINALLY the man has seen the light :clap: :clap::clap::clap::clap:

The carpet is an "off" white or bone or beige or similar.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Now that doesn't mean I won't still post my observation over here, since that's about the only way to get you coming back Leon, :p And something told me your carpet was beige.

John
 
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