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Thank you shiva . . . goodbye and good luck

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tiltjlp

PN co-founder
As hard as it is to believe, after 8 years, shivaSite is closed. And there is a very good chance it won't be reopening. Not at all, or at least not for quite a while. And ironically, money wasn't the issue this time. I'll explain what I can, which isn't as much as I'm sure most folks would like to know, but I won't betray shiva's trust in my and other shivaSite staff and supporting members.

There was enough money through donations to finance a move to a better server. shiva had begun work on all the required updates when the recent server crash happened. Once he had repaired the damage, he again started working toward moving to a better server. All this happeneed while shive was facing some serious personal problems, but a few of the more tech-minded staffers were willing and able to help out.

But then shivaSite's financial officer had to resign, and therein lays the major stumbling block. shiva asked for a volunteer who could become the financial officer, handling donations and server and other expense payment through a bank account tied to Pay Pal. The move to the better server was dependent upon this, since the monthly server fees needed to be paid through an account linked to Pay Pal. No one volunteered, and as shiva's personal problem continued, he saw the only remaining option was, after 8 years of ups and downs, to close shivaSite.

Maybe somehow shivaSite will weather this storm and return once again. I dearly hope so, but I seriously doubt it, at least in the near future. As I have offered in the past, there is always room here for at least some of the content and special forums from shivaSite. I know anything added here would still pale in comparison to the wonderful resources of shivaSite, but the offer still stands.

But as major a loss as shivaSite will be, the loss of shiva is much more painful and sad, at least to me. I found shivaSite 3 days after I discovered VP, and I volunteered to help out that first day, 3 1/2 years ago. I'm a very slow learner, but everything I have learned, shiva taught me. And during those 3 1/2 years I've seem shiva insulted, belittled, lied to and lied about, and betrayed. I also have never known him to lie to me, or not keep his word to me and the other staffers at shivaSite. That doesn't make shiva perfect by any means, simply honorable.

So far, every time shiva and shivaSite have been knocked down they have rebounded, better than before. I sincerely hope that is the case this time, but I have some serious doubts. Right now shiva needs to focus his time and energy of his personal life, and I wish him well. As important as shivaSite has been to me, to all of us, all that pales when compared to Real Life. God Speed and good luck Paul.

John
 

JonPurpleHaze

Site Nudger
Staff member
Such a sad day, I'm pretty bummed out about shivaSite leaving..:

VPF exists because of shiva, he was always quick to point out that shiva didn't start with a capital "S". The resources from shivaSite will be missed but shiva was way more important to this community.

shiva helped out Pinball Nirvana when I was gone for awhile last year and always had a helping hand ready, I'm eternally gratefull for shiva's hard work. Websites take countless hours to develop and maintain and it's easy to get burned out. (Moderating is didly squat..) shiva is still an admin here and I sincerely hope he is ok, I miss shiva..and hope he returns.
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
First off, Thanks to Brian for taking over the last main headache for me, the donations. I understand everyone got their donations back. Any left over I told him to buy some manuals, since no one else wanted it.
I appreicate everyone's concern, it's been a bit rough, and very expensive, as lawyers are involved etc.
I'm a bit busy to worry about tearing down the site, but the domain is coming up shortly anyway, so that will handle itself.
I decided to move on, I saw the threads at VPF, and decided it was the best if I just left. I didn't want a fuss, I just decided to leave quietly, as I was accused of a lot of things 2 months ago, and I decided it just isn't worth the waste of breath anymore. I won't be looking in either that much, it hurts me everytime I see what this community has actually become, and I can't even look at it anymore. Just wanted to leave with at least some self respect left, and said goodbye to just those who were my friends. I'm sorry some SM's couldn't be contacted, but I did not have a email list available. I'm sure they understand.
I am keeping busy, my free time will be busy helping out another website, and I've just finally set up my software for my new computer. (Yeap, late birthday present, finally got rid of the old one) I always like to keep busy, just time to find new horizons.
 

JonPurpleHaze

Site Nudger
Staff member
edit:

I'm giving up as well, I realized after being slammed by the new staff @ vpf that this is no fun, I had high hopes for those dudes but am exasperated. I suddenly realized that almost every reason you mentioned for quitting applies to me.... VP is a shell of it's 2001 version, It's been sold and i was in this for the thrill of pinball.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Glad to hear from you shiva, and I agree with Jon that you're a lot more important than shivaSite ever was. I hope you'll consider PN as your VP home for now on, and know that you're among friends here . . . always.

And like Jon said, maintaining a site is what's rough, moderating is easy, at least the way we do it here. I think most of the problems in the community has been caused by too much moderating, so what if a "four letter word" gets posted every so often. And the debates and mild flame wars are what gives a site it's character.

I always found it amusing that vpf and shivaSite had basically the same rules, but shivaSite seldom had any of the problems that vpf has. In three years at shicaSite I only had to moderate one person, and that was that 12 year old kid ut2player. when he doctored some images with ethnic slurs.

That's why, other than the community rules about mods, our only rule is not to make a fool of yourself. My moderating style, and our relaxed way of doing things here are because of shiva's influence, and his level-headed approach to running a site.

So just remember Paul, that you are among friends here, mainly because you are a friend. And that won't change.

John
 

shiva

Administrator
Staff member
Site Supporters
Thank you, I am enjoying my retirement (and it's not a dugis retirement either)

To clear up a couple things. Destruk has handled all the donations end, the site will go down when ever I feel like doing it, and any other question, the answer is no.

I have absolutely no intention of answering any more questions, I have other plans for my time, and though i still work on my personal projects, and play the odd game every once in a while, that is all I want to do. I made the mistake of looking at the thread at VPF, and seeing things there that not only happened that I got shouted down for saying would happen, but also see that different rules are applied to different people. I don't work that way, and I will not be part of any place that is.

I do not owe anyone a explination, the only people I do are my friends, staff, and donators, as they put their trust in me. I wanted to leave with at least some self respect, but having the contents of a personal and private email just left up that details my personal life for everyone to read is yet another kick in the face. I do not blame Tom at all for it, he is a great standup guy, and he felt it was the right thing to do, but I didn't want this information to come out, I am a very private person by nature. It should have been removed, I had to request it be removed in fact. The fact that it was clearly againest the rules, and yet AJ and other staff posted right after and ignored it speaks volumes.

It's nice to know who your true friends are though, and not the ones who just claim to be. I will still be around for them, they know how to get in contact with me.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
shiva said:
Thank you, I am enjoying my retirement (and it's not a dugis retirement either)

To clear up a couple things. Destruk has handled all the donations end, the site will go down when ever I feel like doing it, and any other question, the answer is no.

I have absolutely no intention of answering any more questions, I have other plans for my time, and though i still work on my personal projects, and play the odd game every once in a while, that is all I want to do. I made the mistake of looking at the thread at VPF, and seeing things there that not only happened that I got shouted down for saying would happen, but also see that different rules are applied to different people. I don't work that way, and I will not be part of any place that is.

I do not owe anyone a explination, the only people I do are my friends, staff, and donators, as they put their trust in me. I wanted to leave with at least some self respect, but having the contents of a personal and private email just left up that details my personal life for everyone to read is yet another kick in the face. I do not blame Tom at all for it, he is a great standup guy, and he felt it was the right thing to do, but I didn't want this information to come out, I am a very private person by nature. It should have been removed, I had to request it be removed in fact. The fact that it was clearly againest the rules, and yet AJ and other staff posted right after and ignored it speaks volumes.

It's nice to know who your true friends are though, and not the ones who just claim to be. I will still be around for them, they know how to get in contact with me.

The sad thing is that Doug's semi-retirement seems to finally be permanent. You shouldn't need to answer any questions, the what and why isn't really important, nor anyone's business. If there is any way that PN or I can help you, just ask.

John
 

Isaac Sauvage

Meep!
Site Supporters
Consultant
hum... i see similar things being said about the new staff that were said about you guys, jon and shiva.

should we file that under "payback is a bitch"?
 

davidsss

Pinball Wizard
I have no idea what Shiva is refering to above, nor what the lawyers are for. But then, it's really none of my business, or anybody's unless shiva says it is.

All I can say is that you have nothing to explain shiva, you ran a truly invaluable site for a long time and for that we should all be truly thankful. You never were under any compulsion to run this site and I certainly thought it was a privilege to be able to access so many resources in 1 place. Sites like shivasite exist so long as someone is willing to put in the effort to keep them there and has the expertiese. None of us can expect someone to do this forever.

I think you, and Destruk, went beyond the call of duty in dealing with donations. I personally donated to try and keep shivasite up but I donated in the full knowledge that it was a small contribution compared to the time and no doubt money shiva himself put in. When the site went down I thought, well some of us tried by contributing but that's life - it was a donation and I wouldn't have begrudged shiva a couple of beers at my expense given he found he could no longer maintain the site. I certainly didn't expect to be contacted with offers of a refund, now I get contributing member status at VPF and AJs for contributing to shiva.

As for the goings on at VPF, it remains the main forum for Visual Pinball and I really don't know what some of the protaganists are so fired up about. The new staff seem to be doing a fine job, no-one is ever totally consistent. Anyway, if you critisize staff and never put your hand up to do the job then you really have little ground to stand on. I don't know why things get so personal at VPF, people should take a break, play a couple of games of pinball, and then see if messages are really so insulting they need to reply in kind. I think it is a different matter when a private email is posted, that sort of behaviour needs to be stamped out in a hurry.

Lastly, shiva, I hope you drop in occassionally and play pinball when time and inclination permit. Even if VPF and the community have problems it doesn't detract from the fact that pinball is a great game and Visual Pinball a great programme. Don't let the community put you off the njoyment of pinball. And, thanks for shivasite, I gained a huge amount from that site.

DS
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Excellent post David. I think one of the reasons for squabbles at vpf especially, and elsewhere, is that over time, many of us form friendships and even enemies, real and supposed. Even though that's not expected to happen in cyber-space, it does, and so at times some of us either jump to the defense of a friend, or to get a few cheap shots in on an "enemy" who we know little about.

shiva was able to usually ignore this sort of thing, but for reasons I don't fully understand, he seemed to get bashed much more than he did any bashing. Now I've only been around VP 4 years, so I'm not up to par on the early years, but shiva was always straight with me, and helped teach me most of what I know about running a web site. The fact I still don't know much is due to the fact I'm techno-challenged.

John
 
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