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The solution to all the endless VP fighting

Peepo

Pinball Nudger
Goodness me. I popped over to VPF today for the first time in several months, to see if anything noteworthy had been released. Sure enough, there was a PD version of Monopoly, which seemed well worth investigating, so I followed the instructions and looked for the "Pacdude tables" link on this site, and was most baffled when I couldn't find it anywhere.

Several long pages later I managed to establish that the section didn't exist any more, although after about an hour of looking at this forum and VPF I still haven't actually managed to find out why. I eventually found the table elsewhere, so I'm happy.

My point, though, was that in looking for the source of all the kerfuffle, I noticed that this "community" is, if anything - and who would have ever believed such a thing possible? - even more of a fucked-up mess of backbiting, whining, lying and political bullshitting than it was back in the dark days of the "unauthorized" modding "debate". And, y'know, I'm not here to drag up all that again, nor even to bother correcting the lies that I see the likes of tiltjlp are still telling about those times. I'm here to offer a solution.

Change your name.

I see all the same old people here, still dragging around all the same old baggage, still bearing all the same old grudges. Why not leave it all behind and start with a clean slate? Pacdude, why not open a brand new account as "Jesuslover" or something? Destruk, be "Kreate-o The Magnificent". Shiva, become reborn as "SuperPinballGuy45". Refuse to hint at, or even acknowledge, any previous identities. Wipe the memories, forgive the sins, and start from the beginning, with nothing but a shared love of pinball.

Since nobody knows anyone else's real name, it'll work if you want it to. Try not to get hung up on power trips, and imposing rules that even the creators of them will break if they feel like it anyway. If somebody does something you don't like, ignore it and get on with doing whatever you DO like doing, be it playing, creating, modding, bug-finding, whatever. Live and let live.

There's no other way of repairing the unbelievable, farcical mess that's been made of this community by people who could and should have known better, but who I'm not going to waste my time identifying. As long as everyone's staggering under the weight of six years of baggage, there'll be nothing but misery for all.

You might be able to guess who I am. It doesn't matter. I'm just fleetingly passing through, and the state of things, after all this time, made me sad. Wipe it all out. You can forgive each other without having to back down and lose face, because everybody will have a brand new face. Politics is shit. Pinball is ace. Start from there.

Peepo
(the artist formerly known as someone else)
 

Isaac Sauvage

Meep!
Site Supporters
the table is at AJ's.

an interesting idea, but you would also need to selectively wipe a person's memory or perhaps alter their freudian ego. once neural wiring has been well established it's not so easy to pretend it doesn't exist anymore. case in point: yourself. it's easy for you to pop in here for a minute, change your name and make a speech. to really prove your point you would have to go back to posting in the scene on a regular basis and then you would begin to see how much harder your solution really is to uphold. i.e. you talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

my own solution, which has always been more of a "hope": let the mechanism of time take the sharp edges off of conflicts in the past and hope that people grow, begin to see themselves and others a little differently, and realise that things they thought were so important are not really so critical in the larger sense.

and yes- based on the results, both of our solutions suck. :)
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Peepo said:
Goodness me. I popped over to VPF today for the first time in several months, to see if anything noteworthy had been released. Sure enough, there was a PD version of Monopoly, which seemed well worth investigating, so I followed the instructions and looked for the "Pacdude tables" link on this site, and was most baffled when I couldn't find it anywhere.

Several long pages later I managed to establish that the section didn't exist any more, although after about an hour of looking at this forum and VPF I still haven't actually managed to find out why. I eventually found the table elsewhere, so I'm happy.

My point, though, was that in looking for the source of all the kerfuffle, I noticed that this "community" is, if anything - and who would have ever believed such a thing possible? - even more of a fucked-up mess of backbiting, whining, lying and political bullshitting than it was back in the dark days of the "unauthorized" modding "debate". And, y'know, I'm not here to drag up all that again, nor even to bother correcting the lies that I see the likes of tiltjlp are still telling about those times. I'm here to offer a solution.

Change your name.

I see all the same old people here, still dragging around all the same old baggage, still bearing all the same old grudges. Why not leave it all behind and start with a clean slate? Pacdude, why not open a brand new account as "Jesuslover" or something? Destruk, be "Kreate-o The Magnificent". Shiva, become reborn as "SuperPinballGuy45". Refuse to hint at, or even acknowledge, any previous identities. Wipe the memories, forgive the sins, and start from the beginning, with nothing but a shared love of pinball.

Since nobody knows anyone else's real name, it'll work if you want it to. Try not to get hung up on power trips, and imposing rules that even the creators of them will break if they feel like it anyway. If somebody does something you don't like, ignore it and get on with doing whatever you DO like doing, be it playing, creating, modding, bug-finding, whatever. Live and let live.

There's no other way of repairing the unbelievable, farcical mess that's been made of this community by people who could and should have known better, but who I'm not going to waste my time identifying. As long as everyone's staggering under the weight of six years of baggage, there'll be nothing but misery for all.

You might be able to guess who I am. It doesn't matter. I'm just fleetingly passing through, and the state of things, after all this time, made me sad. Wipe it all out. You can forgive each other without having to back down and lose face, because everybody will have a brand new face. Politics is shit. Pinball is ace. Start from there.

Peepo
(the artist formerly known as someone else)

It would be refreshing if you had actually taken your own advice of live and let live but of course you didn't. You hint about some deep dark secret lies I've been telling for all these many years, but don't mention them so I can defend myself. So I assume Peepo could have also chosen BS Artist as a new username. I can see how easy it must be to pop in every 3 years or so and pontificate from on high, when it might make more sense to do battle day in and day out to know the real score.
 

bob

Add-a-ball specialist
Site Supporters
Changing one's screenname has been done by quite a few VPF'ers when signing up to a different site, it's usually done so they can flame under a new name. If you think you can change screennames and then be a new or better person, why not just post as this new or better person with the old screenname. You don't have to get involved in arguements and flame wars, it's pretty simple, don't reply to those threads. The worse thing you can do in a Flame thread or Arguement thread or Debate thread is to post a patronizing or condescending reply, just let them fight it out or let a moderator take care of it. No one wants to hear about your high standard of morals or why can't we all just get along or anything else that belittles the combatants and it makes you look like some high school nerd crying for a teacher to break up a fight.

If you feel you must change your screenname, than go ahead, but don't tell us you did it and then act like you know everything, it just makes us want to slap you.
 

GHoSTFaCe

Pinball Wizard
If you feel you must change your screenname, than go ahead, but don't tell us you did it and then act like you know everything, it just makes us want to slap you.
LOL! True enough. The only time I can potentially see this working is in the case where a user feels like another user is constantly attacking them without substance just because of who they are.

Still, a leopard never changes his spots. Doesn't matter if "Leroy Leopard" becomes "Harry Leopard", he's still a leopard. Whatever issues led to the need for a name change would certainly soon resurface.
 

destruk

Pinball Wizard
Site Supporters
Kreato - The - magnificent? lol. I am me. I can't change my screenname. I don't have any reason to. Besides, I usually post so much everyone would know it was me even if I did sign up as a new user. (Duplicate accounts are usually not allowed, so when Destruk stops posting and some new user starts, you know, it'd be too easy to see).

Now if I could change my SSN and tax records, man I would be real happy. :)
 

rpbizzle47

Pinball Wizard
Several long pages later I managed to establish that the section didn't exist any more, although after about an hour of looking at this forum and VPF I still haven't actually managed to find out why. I eventually found the table elsewhere

Ha ha ha.......what do you expect at VPF; with a bunch of clowns at the controls and an owner who couldn't care less.
 

Isaac Sauvage

Meep!
Site Supporters
please- we prefer to be called "circus humor performers". thanks.

and now excuse me. i have to go squeeze into a tiny car along with ten other people.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Besides, what's so bad about debates, arguments, heated discussions, and even mild flame wars? If we all got along like best friends and never fussed and fumed a bit this and every other VP forum would be terribly dull and boring. What we really need to do is clone Bob so we'd have more people posting humorous and tension-breaking nonsense. It's not that we take ourselves so seriously, it's that not enough folks are deflatingour bloated egos often enough.
 

Paratech

Pinball Wizard
I hate it when the fans are the ones hurt. It's a shame when people are unable to download tables because an author got into a fight with the admins and took it out on everyone who visits the site, I'm not targetting PacDude, he's like the 4th or 5th person who left and took their toys with them. I tried to discuss the issue with PacDude, and got nowhere...So I guess in the future people better leech everything they can get their hands on because the author might quit and take his tables...

rpbizzle47, people offered help, the fact is AJ runs most of the site and noone but AJ can do certain things. It's not like noone else at VPF hasn't encountered the same problems as you have, it's just people have helped each other out and found solutions...I'm sorry things haven't worked out better for you, but I think you came off as abrasive when people asked for the specifics you were discussing...

No site is perfect and I'm happy there are a few sites to find tables, but the politics does hurt gamers who just want to play tables...and the authors who say either do as I say or remove my tables make discussion difficult if not impossible...
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
The shame would be selling tables that were built by people that are banned or not treated fairly, which is most cases. A few was brought on by the membership, KC comes to mind, but most is because it was determined by the author that the site is no longer the best, or even a good place for them to share their work. I did not make tables for AJ to sell, I made them for me, and then to share in a active, maintained, and fun forum. VPF is not any of those things.
 

Paratech

Pinball Wizard
How are they sold? AJ takes donations, but they aren't required. I seriously doubt most of the donations covered the bandwidth used by members. I know the $10-$20 I donated certainly didn't cover the number of tables I downloaded...

You can take your tables and go elsewhere, but the problems you faced at VPF may follow you, because these issues were caused by two or more people. "Wherever you go, there you are."
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
New people don't know that the site is not maintained. This makes asking for donations wrong imo. The site lies about the number of donaters also, that is clear. I think that sist is raking in the money for tables and roms, and makes it easy for those that don't pay to miss out on downloads. Click the wrong table and the site says you downloaded it. Click a table that is not there and the site says you downloaded it. Screenshots are often from versions from years past. What is the point of donations? to keep the site running? Like this?
 

elton

Pinball Wizard
You'll miss it when it's gone! :shock: :twisted: :shock:

Otherwise you wouldn't keep on harping on about it in every bloody thread! :evil:
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
I miss it while it's here elton.

I care about that place at least as much as anybody.
More than most.
More than the staff, and certainly more than the owner.

What I wont miss is any of the staffers that think they need to set a pecking order, the site don't need that.

I explained my statements that they did not understand. I apologised for what ever the dart hit, and just about begged to have my membership restored to me.

I have to conclude that what they care about me is what they care for the site. To think that it is better without someone, for the mear fact that they think it could be run alot better and more fair, and speeks up and says how is not something I can understand. I have made it clear, I think, that I love that site and it is what came up first when the I hit the net.

What if I asked you to paint my front door and told you that that if you dripped paint on the mat that I would bill you for it. You drip paint on the mat and I decide to stab you in the back instead. Would that be fair if I did it? Would that be fair if you did it? Is nicolas.b fair? Is Pete?
 

Paratech

Pinball Wizard
elton said:
You'll miss it when it's gone! :shock: :twisted: :shock:

Otherwise you wouldn't keep on harping on about it in every bloody thread! :evil:

Yeah, who'd pick up the Gottlieb tables/ROMs, or have obscure arcade tables if not VPF, I'm not dissing other VPMAME sites, variety IS the spice of life, but MOST of your pin needs are satisfied at VPForums, and noone has to donate, and as little as $5 or $10 gets you unlimited downloads...Where else can you get unlimited download rights for less than a third the cost of a half baked videogame?

:lol:
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
The solution to all the endless VP fighting, at least for threadstarter Peepo was to snipe and run away. And what some folks call fighting others call discussion. The only difference between a fight and a discussion is POV. The only two constants here is that Schockman is going to turn almost every thread into a crusade against what he sees as an injustice done him elsewhere, and someone else will remind us that pinball was invented in 198? with the modern day DMD, and that anything that looks and plays like a pin but doesn't use ROMS can't be a pinball game. And I alswys thought that the term "pinball" came about from pins or nails, and balls, and not flippers and DMDs. Catchy name isn't it . . . DflipMperD :p , sort of rolls off the tongue.

And for all our humorless friends, yes, this post was made in jest.
 

Isaac Sauvage

Meep!
Site Supporters
frillneck.jpg


The Australian frilled lizard usually keeps its
colorful frilled ruff folded flat against its long
neck, but it will suddenly raise the enormous
bib during courtship or when threatened.
 

elton

Pinball Wizard
Funnily enough, I used to have a Brain Coral in my reef set up some years ago! Ah, the good old times before the leak! ARGHHHHHHHHH :(
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
I'd be very happy to stick to pinball at your site John. nails and balls, OK.

There is one pinball that VPF has put back up that I asked for and indeed had taken down. It's just a few versions older and the credits for the creation of it is listed as 'Not TMFP' now.
Stuff from the past. Yeah right.
I asked for that to be taken down because I was banned for things I did not do and lied to about what would happen if I did them. Sounds fucked up don't it?

Typical shit from them, not as far as you guys can see, I know. I PMed both of the admins. and told them that they can put version 0.7 up, offered to supply it if they could not find it, and asked them to take down, again, version 0.9 and to credit the author, cristof instead of 'not tmfp'

If nic. had done that instead of replied in a thread as proof that he is around and not going to do it, you, the rest of the membership here would never know that this has gone down, so who do you really want to blame for this? I know. In fact every thing I ever asked for in the name of fairness was asked in PM, old staffs or new.

I don't even have to call them liers and cheats and thiefs this time, do I?
 

Isaac Sauvage

Meep!
Site Supporters
elton said:
Funnily enough, I used to have a Brain Coral in my reef set up some years ago! Ah, the good old times before the leak! ARGHHHHHHHHH :(
wow, a reef?! did you actually have living coral set up in a big tank? got any pics, elton? :o
 

elton

Pinball Wizard
Sure did. Nice 6 footer too. Must have loads of photos somewhere (this was pre digital camera's). I'll have a look and see if I can scan something in. Watch this space!
 
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