To Ultracade: Tell me something

[shiva]

Decided to post this here, pointless at VPF because no doubt the admins there will automatically delete the thread soon as they see it.

I saw the screenshot of the Ultracade games, and even made a joke at PacDudes expense, and well, we all know him, he wouldn't leave that one alone, yet for some very strange reason, he let it go. Even though I made the joke, something really bugged me about one of those screenshots.

First off, lets have a look at a couple images. Use the tab feature with firefox and IE so you can compare them easy.

Here's The UC image:
http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ucversionxk9.jpg

And here's PacDude's version: (Note, I had to find it on one of my archive disks, so it's a older version I would guess)
http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdversionax7.jpg

So we have 2 different images, so the thing that struck me is if PacDude's version is so highly rated, has all these people doing cartwheels over it, why then are the 2 images so different from each other. It almost appears that they just used the graphics that PD most likely gave them, and then put them over a completely different layout. The thing is, that's not PacDudes layout is it? It's a completely different one from his version, and not his style at all.

and now, just for laughs... lets have a look at my version, the one I did 5 years ago, the one that was voted best vpm game of that year? You all remember that one?

http://img251.imageshack.us/my.php?image=seversionok4.jpg

Can anyone tell me here I'm wrong? I pretty sure some people may even say I'm crazy, and that's not MY version that UltraCade used, instead of PD's, even though the layout and the style is exactly the way I did it. Of course, then I will say that if this is true then why...

ARE MY FUCKING GRAPHICS IN THERE AS WELL!!!

They added PD's graphics, but some they didn't like, so they kept the orginal graphics that they liked, which were mine! I count several there, the guide rail tops, the metal texture for the loop and spinners, the target banks, I'm sure you can also see other ones.

I don't think there isn't a person who has looked at these screenshots here that doesn't think the same thing here. That is my version they used, not PacDudes, they just replaced the main images with PD's.

But, I would really like to know something here PacDude. You saw the screenshot, you know it's not your version, you know it's mine. So, why haven't you said anything, why have you kept quiet? You are being given credit for something that is not yours, and you are being paid for it. That is not your layout, so I want to know what happened here, why didn't you correct them?

I am gonna leave my questions to someone else to ask for me with Ultracade though.

 

[Shockman]

So what Shiva?
So PacDude is a fucking thief. You already knew that, but you did not think he was stealing from you so you did not care. So I don't fucking care about this and I'm sure no one else does either.
Quit your ranting. Get over it already. I'm tired of hearing about it. ETC.ETC.ETC.

 

[shiva]

Didn't say PacDude was a thief. I'm pretty sure he was just as surprised as I was when he saw the UC screenshot, just wanted to know why he didn't say anything, even as soon as he saw the screenshot. He spent a long time screaming about you, and so did certain admins at VPF, so I am wondering why I didn't get the same protection when it was so blantingly apparent that wasn't his layout.

Glad you don't care, even though it validates everything you have said, must be nice to be walking around being called a unauthorized modder by everyone at VPF, including the admins, and being banned for such. Quite sure they don't care either, other than the fact that they have to now trip over their own rules in front of everyone that goes there. Very clear about unauthorized mods there, they sure made a big deal about your minor infraction.

Of course there's a big difference between using a few numbers in a table, and ripping out the entire layout of someones version, and then releasing it as a commercial product. That isn't just a "mod", that's theft, and very easy to prove.

Personally, I would have banned you ages ago, not because you were right, because you were. It was the constant bombardment about it, especially over something that was so minor. You were right to stand up for yourself, you were wrong in how you did it.

this isn't minor. This sets a very bad situation not just for me, but every other author out there. This means that UC lied from the beginning, they can take anyones work they want and sell it for themselves, and if VPF supports this with inaction, they also will be looked apon with untrust. The rules that are written are very clear, they jump on their high horse everytime a kid releases a cd on ebay, this is a far worse situation, something we never dreamed off.

I'm not saying it's intentional, though I have a hard time thinking that anyone could be this stupid to get 2 seperate versions mixed up, but I would like answers, and very quickly. This is not a author vs author issue, this is a legal and artistic copyright issue, this is theft for gain of profit, even if it's a mistake.

I'm already in the middle of one big legal battle as it is, I certainly don't want to be in the middle of another one, but I will if I have to. It's not about who did what, it's about standing up and being counted when you are wronged. I stood up when the Beatles table came out, I stood up for Stein when the entire NS thing happened, and I stood up basically alone most of the time. Now I have to stand up for myself, I can't let something like this go, no author could afford to either.

I need this like I need a hole in my head. There is no doubt that this is my layout, everything, even the layout mistakes I made, are there. I didn't want to be involved in this entire UC mess, I don't want to have to even deal with them at all, but they have no right to use my work without my permission, and then turn around and sell it for profit either.

I'm surprised at your attitude shockman. If this is indeed the case, doesn't that validate what you have said to the entire community, or about certain people?

Now I have to think about what to do to fix this mess

 

[Shockman]

It's no fucking different shiva, except that it's you now. I don't give a fuck about what you think is minor and what you think is more important. PacDude's MO is the same as it always was. "I did not do it!" but it was done and he knew about it. He fucking took VP back at least 3 years by taking the fix out of the core, because he likes instant returns and is too fucking stupid to figure out how to get flippers to work otherwise. But he did not write the credit, he just took it. When someone said in one of PK's threads that PacDude's flipper fix worked great, he did not set them stright, and he responded in that thread. So what if they used your layout. That is more minor as harassing someone for telling someone to talk to the finger. I don't give a fuck about what they think of me. The fuckers can't think.
Yeah I modded PD's tables. Who don't? who plays RoadShow with the same key for both flippers? Who leaves the flippers flying back at .137 speed? Who enjoys not being able to hit shit becacause PacDude says the table is hard and it would be too easy if the fucking flippers worked? But they are not unauthorized. They are Free to mod. What does free mean to you shive? Free of charge like many think? Free of fat, or sugar? Free of confinement? Free is free man, free of everything, including hassle. Fuck him. And fuck Mr. StayPuft. I am sick of that shit. That motherfucker could die today an I could not care a bit. That fucker knows fucking damn well that he has fucked with my life just a bit too much and he knows he was wrong. Suck his cock, but you will have to get in the back of a long line. Fucking ban me, right or wrong, fuck shiva, you are just the same as the skum that run that fucking VPF, I don't know why you stay away from there, you fit in like a pea in a pod.
I don't need no validation shiva, not anymore, thank you. You just should expect everyone to clam up about this like you and everyone else did about what I had to go through because of nicolas.b fucking lying his ass off. Loafer, what a fucking tool, Peter fucking Pope, and his god damned lies. and his stupid double talk. Mr. StayPuft and his hatefulness, PacDude and his lies, stealing, and whining, StevOz, the fucking 'ditto' head, lio, the coward, Leo, the fool, Staypuft, did I mention him? Talk about cowards, that fucker, strike and fucking run. That's just a few people that can just curl up and die, and the world would be better for it. There's more, but so what? who's listening? That stuff was wrong the day it happened shiva, and it go's on. They better hope I never get in reach of them, any of them. They killed me, as fully as they were capable of from a distance. You, you just take the advice you gave me, and SHUT THE FUCK UP about it. To think this is more important than what I went through is fucking sick. Spare us. Get over it. Move on, Let it go. Fuck, it's just not the same when it is is you is it? Fuck you.

 

[ValamirCleaver]

I try to shed some light on this for you shiva. Just realize that I'm going from memory of posts going as far back as about a year and a half ago.

From what I recall when David Foley made the first announcement about 2 summers ago, after the initial furor died down certain authors offered contracts that would pay royalties. If I remember correctly Foley made some smug sounding comment to the effect that authors were better off taking the offered contracts because UltraCade could just rip apart all previously publically released tables and could even get access to locked ones by virtue of the source code pluse that UC had downloaded every public release going back for about 3 years. When someone asked if that was the case why did UC even bother offering royalties. Foley responded by say that UC wanted to have UltraPin ready for a Xmas release (this was Xmas 2005, so I guess they were about a year late). Foley said that UC needed layouts and that they would modify them to their own need and use their own high quality art.

PD was very vocal about the art not looking very realistic. I personally doubt he reused anything from your previous Sorcerer release, more likely it was UC/GVR after PD turned it in.

I personally don't feel that UC has been fully forthright concerning this whole UP thing whether it was Foley as the head mouthpiece or now Brian Mattehws. I wouldn't be surprise if UC reused your's or anyone else's work without explicit permission.


Hey, what a surprise, Shockman / Don Quixote is being his usual anti-social self.

Tom

 

[shiva]

What ever shockman, the situation is entirely different, and you know it. So I guess you are saying it's perfectly alright for UC to use your version of M&MPacman without your permission, and sell it? I guess you are also talking for say Eala with Card Sharks, Starman for Rapid Vienna, Bob for Spiderman, KC, TAB, the new guys like Highrise, Kristian and all the other authors as well as you.

Tom, thanks but I already knew that. I was not contacted by UC at all, still haven't. I never said PacDude stole my graphics or my layout, he didn't and he's good enough so he doesn't have to, just to make that perfectly clear, and for god knows how many times I have had to say that over the last 2 years. He didn't use any of my layout either, it's far to different, and if he did, then he wouldn't have put in the minor mistakes that he did with either layout or graphics.

As to all of this, I will handle this after the weekend, so everyone now has advanced warning of knowing when to hide underneath their rocks like they usually do. I have far more important plans with my son to worry about this till afterwards.

Your comments were exactly what I thought from the beginning, but I would also disagree about me not being able to do anything about it, even living in Canada. Even with the comments from Foley, it doesn't matter, he doesn't speak for that company anymore, and I have the same rights as any author from the states. All I need is a lawyer from the US, but I can do it just as easy here, I already have a lawyer on retainer.

Look, all I want is my stuff removed, and that they use PacDudes actual version, not mine. That's what they pay him for, that's what I want as well. I don't want this problem, but I am not gonna let this one go either. If they can't do that, then instead of compensating me for my portion of the table directly, which I won't take anyway, let alone sign anything, just do what exactly PacDude suggests with each of his tables. Donate the money to a worthy cause. Simple solution.

BTW, I know for a fact that UC hasn't been trueful about a few things, I'm pretty sure anyone with a brain has already figured that out. I know a lot of people have twisted themselves backwards for these guys, and I'm sorry for them when reality hits as well. Randy won't come out of the woodwork either, a deal was made and he has to live by it. I suspect he is the owner of VP in name only now.

 

[Shockman]

Yes, I told them that they can use anything I have . And for free. I got pics from the net and from others, I used techniques that others came up with as well as some I came up with, each which I shared as soon as I did. I don't think there is one person with a contract that deserves to be served. Not one. Every one has used things from others. PacDudes plunger is no different than the one that I came up with when he was beating the drum for the virtue of the default plunger and saying that his skill shots work with it so no need for a improvement there. When it came down to it and he needed one he put it in the core and said that mine uses kickers and had a jump. Bullshit. It used a trigger and had no kick. Flippers, you know about that. In his table's script so fuck everyone else. rollover triggers, swinging gates, light tricks, he used from others, and indeed snubbed his nose at it until he learned from others how to do it himself and called it his own and beat the drum for the utility of it. He emailed the team and told them that they should use 1.37 for flipper speed. What a fucking jerk. .133 is better than .135 if he could just not bring himself to accept that he had no fucking thing to do with it other that claim the .002 from him would be better. He don't deserve a dime from UC. You don't deserve a dime from UC, and I don't. If you need this as an excuse to donate money to others, then give me your e-mail, and I can give you many more and much better reasons, Even some very fun ways that I have used myself.
UC would be stupid to give money. GVR would be too stupid to call stupid if they did. That would just be the funniest thing ever to have happened on this earth.
You either are OK with them using stuff off the net as you do, or you are not. What's a few bucks going to change what you feel about that? You think someone is going to get rich over this? If GVR does that would be a surprise.
To use mmpac without my permission? Of course. Why would they need my permission? I did not have permission to rip it as I did. When I posted it, I posted it. It is released. I never complained about e-bay, CD's , anything. It's out for all that want it. Even if I wanted money for it, which I don't, I would not expect it. It's not rocket science shiva, If you want to keep something to yourself, keep it to yourself.
Layout? No one came up with any of these layouts. They are Ballys' DEs', Stearns' and others.

 

[Shockman]

Besides, I don't see any texture on your ramps and the graphics about the rollovers look more like PacDudes'. My guess is that they redrew one or the other, neither, or both. Obviously it's Williams' shit anyway, not either of yours. If they have a deal with the holder of that, then what do you expect to get out of it?

 

[ValamirCleaver]

BTW, I know for a fact that UC hasn't been trueful about a few things, I'm pretty sure anyone with a brain has already figured that out. I know a lot of people have twisted themselves backwards for these guys, and I'm sorry for them when reality hits as well. Randy won't come out of the woodwork either, a deal was made and he has to live by it. I suspect he is the owner of VP in name only now.

I've suspected this too from the very beginning. I was apprehensive because of Foley's past business dealings, especially those surrounding his fraudulent attempt to trademark MAME. I was wondering why Foley's and BMath's wording seemed very "purposeful" and "legalistic" for lack of a better term. I directly asked, multiple times, for official assurance that there was nothing in the licensing agreement between UC and Randy that prohibited him from releasing an updated VP back to the community. No one from UC/GVR ever bothered to directly address my question. I also found it very strange that while they were able to initially contact Randy to sign a licencing agreement, but yet they have been unable to reach Randy so as to help facillate a public release of a updated VP. Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

Tom

 

[shiva]

nope, you just don't get it. If you are so fine with all of this, then I guess you don't mind PacDude getting all the credit for MMP then instead of you, and also receiving all the money for it as well if UC decided to do that. Very generous of you I must say.

BTW, they used my graphics, and some were custom made as well, not images from the flyer. Don't remember giving them permission to use images I never released publically.

so, if that's the case, and you are saying that say those guide lane red plastics are not mine, then why do I have the orginal images on my archive storage disk I made 3 years ago, and dated as a file from nearly 5 years? Hmm? I never put a texture on my ramp, but they did with theirs, so what. They still used the same metal images I did though, not PacDudes. I guess that gives me the same right to steal and use their images as much as they have the right to take mine.

By the way, a lot of the stuff they used from my table isn't part of the williams copyright, the layout and the work involved is not automatically part of the williams copyright either. It's artistic copyright, but it would be too much to explain to someone like you, especially since you are gonna argue no matter what.

BTW? Didn't you just break your word about not posting the same old subject in a forum other than the one given you?

 

[shiva]

I've suspected this too from the very beginning. I was apprehensive because of Foley's past business dealings, especially those surrounding his fraudulent attempt to trademark MAME. I was wondering why Foley's and BMath's wording seemed very "purposeful" and "legalistic" for lack of a better term. I directly asked, multiple times, for official assurance that there was nothing in the licensing agreement between UC and Randy that prohibited him from releasing an updated VP back to the community. No one from UC/GVR ever bothered to directly address my question. I also found it very strange that while they were able to initially contact Randy to sign a licencing agreement, but yet they have been unable to reach Randy so as to help facillate a public release of a updated VP. Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

Tom

Not that hard to figure out. I doubt that any company would have accepted paying for less than complete rights, and that's any type or kind of distribution. We are not just talking a company here, but a arcade company, no less. It makes no sense that a company would pay the money, and then turn around and just give away a free version out of the kindness of their hearts. They wouldn't have negociated a deal like that, the best we can hope for is a provision Randy insisted on, but I have no doubt that the intention was to sell a retail version from the beginning. Either a boxed version, or, a version that is crippleware, and requires their U-Shock controller to actually be purchased so the program is playable.

BTW, isn't U_shock just another word for force feedback, or rumble in controllers. Sure sounds like it.

Seems kind of strange, we all know that Randy is shall I put this.... rather shy... but it seems just a little strange that he doesn't answer back to them. Randy does have the UC version, has had it for 2 months now, yet nothing? I don't buy that, because if he in fact has retained his rights even under a contract status, doesn't that mean that he has to aprove any release of his product, and that would include the Ultracade release as well?

If that is true, then why is UC selling and sending their games out right now if they can't get in touch with him? Very very strange.

 

[Shockman]

That forum was taken away, and so the 'deal'.

 

[StevOz]

Given your thoughts on the matter shiva, if Randy had sold VP off no rights reserved then why haven't they attempted to close down all VP sites?

I think the truth as usual lies somewhere in between. I've looked at the issue, to me the ultracade version seems not to resemble either table, bits seem as if they may have originated from one table or the other, though the end result resembles neither. Actually to me it seems somewhat slapped together, those lights are not PDs faders that's for sure, they do look to be 'lifted' from your table and those posts, wtf were they thinking, just straight cylinders, when we know the real machine had much differing posts, not exactly rocket science to recreate in VP with multiple walls.

As for Randy approving a release, I'm sure he does hold that key, others already have beta versions of the ultracade VP, thing is it's not designed for PC use and would require extensive changes to run on any PC/resolution as VP7 does. As we know Randy takes his time about such updates and by all account the ultrcade VP mods are still not final.

 

[shiva]

For the very simple reason, if they start closing sites, all they are doing are annoying their own customers. Same base to work with here after all, not exactly a huge consumer market.

That's the way the game was, it is 5 years old after all, and I never saw the need to update it since. The fact they never bothered to make a better product themselves is rather interesting in it's own right.

I am also thinking that it is almost impossible for them to have made a honest mistake. Anyone can grab the wrong version (Mind you, there's nothing wrong with it even at 5 years old) but how could they ignore the main screen, and the copyright within the script, which they would have to make changes. Surely, if they used PD's main graphics, it would have occured to them there was something wrong, because I extremely doubt that PacDudes graphics would line up perfectly with my layout. Interesting huh?

I'm beginning to wonder if there's any of PacDude's stuff in there at all now as well. They had to sign him because of the custom scripts he had done, but there was no way they could have made the mistake of confusing versions like that. His Game is completely different, and they made no attempt to use his techniques. Those are my lights, not his fading lights, and I'm sure he is real happy about it now as well. He may have his money, but it's my table people are playing, not his. Sure that really thrills him.

Randy may or may not have control, but I doubt they would pay that kind of money without retaining control. How are they able to release their product then without his approval if he retained developer control?

 

[Shockman]

GVR might own it now, but they didn't build these things, UC did, and those guys can be found at VPF. You should ask them there. I'm sure they could answer the question of where they got the resources to build that table, and I doubt that they would hesitate to answer.

if he in fact has retained his rights even under a contract status, doesn't that mean that he has to aprove any release of his product, and that would include the Ultracade release as well?

If that is true, then why is UC selling and sending their games out right now if they can't get in touch with him? Very very strange.

No. The license is not for looking at or playing with Randys' and the Pinball machine holders work, but for releasing work that includes Randy's and the holders' work. Why would they or Randy even wish to approve the release? What do they care about the quality of the damn thing, or the exact avenue taken to procure those resources?

You want to wonder about something? Wonder about this. Wonder how it is that the holder of these actual pinball resources (the real tables, graphics sound/music and rom code) would license their work to be used in any form of VP. Seems to me that a legal step that had to be taken first would be for them to provide a legal license to Randy/VP, otherwise they would be licensing their work to be made available illegally. They would want to know what was going to be created using the resources they licensed, but that would probably be all. Of course if UC disclosed that the plan was to also release a windows version for the home PC, which my bet is they did not, my next bet is that the unfinished contract would be ripped in two in front of them and they be told 'Let's start over then. About the fee...'.

 

[shiva]

Talking legal stuff gives me a headache. One small correction, Randy made the program, but it was not intended to make actual arcade versions, because it can't. VPinMAME though can, because it uses the actual rom, and that is what UC went after and got for rights (For free as well!) They don't need to licence it for the actual tables, they just wanted the scripts to run their product on. Why is MAME still around then, and that was made specifically to run arcade roms. Same thing I would guess. I think David Foley would be able to explain that a bit better from first hand experience.

From a table author prespective, in actual fact, we control the rights to certain things, whether the companies like it or not. Raster Blaster, Davids Midnight magic, remember those? Same type of idea. Sure they were actually BK and Firepower, but they didn't get any flack either, mainly because the companies couldn't do anything in the first place. Their authors though retained full rights, maybe because though it may look like the actual table in design, it's still considered a orginal creation.

Since UC used a completely different set of graphics from the actual table, even if it could be considered copyrighted for a 20 year table, they also removed any excuse they had with my version, because they just used the layout, and only my custom graphics are in there. They never used any of the actual images I made from the flyer, and considering they were hand redrawn over completely (I think the orginal image is not even in my master) they may have a bit of a problem as well. Other people have released artwork, and never got into problems. Of course we could be chasing our tails for weeks over the concepts, and I doubt either one of us are lawyers.

Your reasoning is sound about the actual licence holder (Guess that would be Williams) but then they have also sold licences to other companies as well. My guess would be UC bought the Electronic licence, and since none of us know what that actual agreement is, then you may be right, but as well, you may be wrong. They could have just as easily already have clauses in there already that cover all possible situations.

About VPF. I'm pretty sure the people at UC already know about all this, and why should I have to go to a place I do not wish to step a foot in? I'm not the one that did anything wrong.

Just be glad you don't have the headache about all this, though I am pretty sure you will appreicate the irony. Think about this. UC broke not just one of the major rules in the community, but 2. Unauthorized use of a table, and selling that table. The 2 biggest no-no's there is.

By the rules that were written at VPF, by the people who run the forum, and since the admins there already know about this, those people should actually be banned. The rules are very very clear are they not? They have taken my layout (and Joxers script as well, as he is the co-author) made it into a product, and have actually distributed and sold it, without my knowledge or permission.

They have banned people for a lot less, and no matter how they slice it, or try to justify it, they can't. This is one of the most serious breaches of the rules I can ever remember in 8 years, and it's pretty clear cut. I don't expect them to actually do anything, and from my point of view, they are not the people I would complain to anyway, which is a good thing because I doubt they will do anything about it based on past history.

 

[Shockman]

There our disagreement ends. They have never acted as moderators, they have never followed their own rules, and they lie about everything they don't want to face. They have nothing against the UC team though, so they are not inclined to follow the rules they made. you have got to get on their bad side on a personal basis for them to take action. They say one thing and do another. One can do no wrong, in the eyes of the others, no matter what they do.
But the fact remains that you are most likely not going to get your answers here. And who would want second hand information anyway. See in UC still has a web site, or look for an e-mail at VGRs' site. I think everyone should raise a big enough stink over the few that is promised money out of this that it would be impossible for anyone to get any. I'm sure that you are not the only one that has contributed things that are being claimed by others. 100% sure.
Me, I protest in another way, because I don't want nor deserve money, as I feel the same about all of us. But if someone does claim to be the owner of anything I have done, and gets money for it then I will hunt them down. I will just go on removing PacDude's name from his work and releasing it at my savefile.com/projects/(sig) site, as I have found my work in each of those tables. RoadShow is almost ready, with advancements to my flipper technique which work all the time now, and has better aiming, better ramps, drop wall lighting that is not cut out aroungd the lights (I thought everyone knew that all you had to do was set then above the damn dropwalls, and separate keys for each plunger. I'll also try to fix that horrid mess above the white pop. When I have enough, I will sell CD's on e-bay or elsewhere with everything set up including roms, I have only took the word of the VPF staff that that would not fly, and because they have never kept their word with me, I have to think the opposite is true. I think I will start putting the roms in my savefiles project as well. Going to do nicolas.b's up close or what ever he calls it version of mars attack, it needs a lot of work.

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

shiva, before you get worked up over money, I would suggest you check to see if the 'official' authors have recieved any payment

 

[shiva]

As I said before, I may agree with some of your message, I disagree with how you go about it.

I also can point out that this is not the first, second, or third time that rules seem to be applied differently, nor is it the first time that they totally ignored a issue just because it was me. That would be one of the reasons I refuse to go there.

Seems authors are in pretty short supply and considering other things, they have themselves to blame. Some retired, some where chased out, and I find it very interesting that a very large group of authors jumped to FP despite the fact it's a inferior product in quite a few areas compared to VP. Most of them are not even posting at VPF from what I understand. That speaks volumes. I suspect a few of them may feel the same way I do

As the expression goes, they made their bed, they can live in it. They made their intentions very clear to me, and that's fine if they are happy with just PacDude and his pack of mini-me clones. I don't actually need to deal with them directly unless I want to, and at the moment, why waste my breath when there are other ways.

Maybe best to end the subject, it isn't really worth talking about anyway. They are in my past, not my future.

 

[shiva]

Ah, someone actually speaks. Maybe the authors didn't receive any money, but that's not the issue is it, GlobalVR has received money.

Nice try to skirt around the issues though, trying to deflect the issue from the people who caused the wrong, to people who have no issue because their work wasn't Taken (as nice a word as I can put it), and then sold. I already stated that any share I am entitled to from the released units already be donated, I would prefere the Pinball hall of fame actually.

I fully expect them to tell me tough. That's a pretty clear message to quite a few questions that I bet people are asking, about what their true intentions actually are. Of course they will try and get me to sign over my rights, and I bet you it will be a blanket one at that. I'm not gonna do that, why should I?

They are in the wrong. Period. So I'm wondering Mr Admin, protector of the "community" website, what are you gonna do about it?

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I am going to poop in a paper bag and leave it on their doorstep

I think that this action will be just as effective as any other

 

[Shockman]

That would be as good as your word, and worth as much, Pope.

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Hi Phil

@shiva, I am not seeing the similarities that you see
yes the posts look like cylinders, like yours do,
but the flipper feeder lanes have a different look to them

UltraPin has the right to sell VP and some tables
to the question as to if Sorcerer is your work, PDs work or the work of UltraPin..
who can tell?

 

[shiva]

jeez phil, then you are blind as a bat, or maybe you don't want to have to see it. The entire layout, minus any graphics. It's exactly the same, right down to the little posts I used for acorns, in exactly the same location, even if they were not part of the game itself. Same with the little metal brackets, like the one above the kickout (missing from PD's version), all the posts, all the rubbers, which happen to be the exact same width I used, as well as oddly enough the exact same graphics for the side metals, and the exact same graphic for the plastic red tops, which I never released publically. The exact same target images, including the demon targets, which PD had wrong in his version. They made their own bumper caps, I guess PD sent them the graphics, but that's was the wrong graphic as well. Whoopee, they added wire triggers, part of the image for the playfield they replaced.

Also, the exact same lights, and the exact same lens, even though PD's version used drop walls. You remove their graphic additions, and what do you get? Of course, you can see for yourself, my version of sorcerer has been available at your site for 5 years now.

Scratch that, you know they did. Guess you just don't have it in you to admit it.

As to what you said you would do. Nice to see you take that superman cape you always put on whenever PD has a problem and show your true colors, just like you did several times before. As I said, not surprised, the only reason I asked was so I can save the price of a stamp.

As to the authors, if they were upset in the slightest, don't you think they can post for themselves? A couple have seen this, but no comment. I guess that after a year and a half of waiting, they have a few questions themselves, especially the ones that had their work announced before they ever saw a contract, or were even contacted.

BTW, take my version, make the top metal bracket invisible for the top wall, (but not the sides), and then change the angle to I guess 40/40 or 40/45, and then compare it to the UC. Look familar? even right down to the shape of the top of the posts.

At least that's what they did. PD's version doesn't even have the top brackets.

Care to change your tune before you look like a complete self serving moron in front of everyone? I'm not playing around this time, since nobody stood up for me before, then I don't have to stand up for anyones interest anymore either, especially for those that are more than willing to take the paycheck despite the fact they know that someone's rights are being trampled all over so they can.

I guess it's perfectly acceptable to everyone, till it happens to them that is. I fought like hell to prevent this from happening for 8 years for other people, and now I find myself having to do that for myself. I can't help but note that it's alone. Guess what? Expected that as well.

I'm not mad at the community, I'm ashamed for the community. Talk is cheap, but when someone waves money in front of your eyes, or offer the chance of something that profits you personally, morals and big talk seem to just fly right out the window doesn't it? By the way, I do have one question. After a year and a half of promises from UC to the community, and assuming from what you say, none of the authors have actually seen any money, have any of those promises actually happened yet? Just curious.

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

shiva, you can blow and bluster all you like
I have no control over ultrapin or their product

I have never recieved anything from the company

from what I read, no-one from VPF has recieved a cent from globalVR, and they had signed contracts
If you had gotten off your highhorse for 5 minutes and done some research, you would know this

nor do I know how much they expected to recieve

@Shockman, I have no idea (as usual) what you are on about
and if you had 5% of the brains you say you do then you would know that I have zero ability to add/change/remove screenshots