VPinball.com closes

Ian (WVP) · Apr 2, 2021

Message from VPINBALL.COM

I feel this HOBBY has gone to a lot of peoples heads in a bad way! Its actually very sad to see and i'd even say embarrassing! So i'm closing this FREE site down. Sorry but I just cant watch this hobby i have enjoyed so much being turn into commercial cabinet/software sales. Sorry to all the VPB authors, contributors, members and moderators.

Isaac Sauvage · Apr 2, 2021

oof, wow. So... not just an April Fools thing, eh?

You know, after a long time not being very involved in the pin sim side of the scene, I was slowly starting to get a feel for VPinball.com and enjoy some of the stuff there, like Rothbauer's excellent works. We saved his Jive Time here, and maybe more VPinball.com can be archived, too.

But yeah, sounds like Randr was another victim of the hobby feeling too much like a job, especially since he was doing it for fun, while a bunch of people were seemingly poaching the site's resources to make money from. Not to mention the DDos attacks.

A scary aspect of this stuff is whether the freeware pin sim scene has become so lucrative that sites like VPU and VPF might be targeted next. And of course, the more PN tries to play catch up with those big boys, the more we might become a target, too...?

Gimli · Apr 2, 2021

Ike Savage said:
oof, wow. So... not just an April Fools thing, eh?

You know, after a long time not being very involved in the pin sim side of the scene, I was slowly starting to get a feel for VPinball.com and enjoy some of the stuff there, like Rothbauer's excellent works. We saved his Jive Time here, and maybe more VPinball.com can be archived, too.

But yeah, sounds like RandR was another victim of the hobby feeling too much like a job, especially since he was doing it for fun, while a bunch of people were seemingly poaching the site's resources to make money from. Not to mention the DDos attacks.

A scary aspect of this stuff is whether the freeware pin sim scene has become so lucrative that sites like VPU and VPF might be targeted next. And of course, the more PN tries to play catch up with those big boys, the more we might become a target, too...?

I wonder if gopinball spam attack constitutes a ddos ?

Paolo · Apr 2, 2021

what is this ddos?

Isaac Sauvage · Apr 2, 2021

Gimli said:
I wonder if gopinball spam attack constitutes a ddos ?

@wild
A typical DDos attack involves jamming a server with network request packets such that it's totally overloaded and unable to function. This is frequently accomplished with a BOT-net from what I understand, meaning the attacks are coming from multiple machines that have been compromised by some kind of previous hack. So the machine owners conducting the attack don't even know they're involved in anything. It's some scary shizzle. I first read about this stuff in the early aughts.

So it's usually highly-targeted towards the victim site, therefore malicious and intentional. My understanding of what happened with GoPinball is that it simply failed to do reasonable upkeep & self-protection over the years, slowly becoming overrun by spam bots trying to push products / malware.

Isaac Sauvage · Apr 2, 2021

Btw, The Web Archive looks like it only has the first page of VPinball.com archived, but Google seems to have the whole site cached as of yesterday.

In order to see the page you want, you have to enter the address in to google, then choose the vertical ellipticals (three dots), and choose "cache." Example page:

rothbauerw – VPINBALL.COM

webcache.googleusercontent.com

If you're not sure what the URL is, google "site:vpinball.com" and whatever terms you're looking for. Then pull up the cache from one of the URL's it gives you.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much real content you'll be able to get that way. Threads, tutorials and imagery I think so, but downloads, probably not.

Gimli · Apr 2, 2021

Ike Savage said:
@wild
A typical DDos attack involves jamming a server with network request packets such that it's totally overloaded and unable to function. This is frequently accomplished with a BOT-net from what I understand, meaning the attacks are coming from multiple machines that have been compromised by some kind of previous hack. So the machine owners conducting the attack don't even know they're involved in anything. It's some scary shizzle. I first read about this stuff in the early aughts.

So it's usually highly-targeted towards the victim site, therefore malicious and intentional. My understanding of what happened with GoPinball is that it simply failed to do reasonable upkeep & self-protection over the years, slowly becoming overrun by spam bots trying to push products / malware.

At go pinball it gets blitzed with 1000 viagra adds in Greek per day

Isaac Sauvage · Apr 2, 2021

Gimli said:
At go pinball it gets blitzed with 1000 viagra adds in Greek per day

I don't know enough about overall spammer strategy, but sometimes I get the sense that the worse a site does at spam protection, the more it will get targeted over time. As if its known weakness against spam gets shared (or sold) amongst other spammers.

Not unlike when we share our telephone # / address with the 'wrong business,' it will then get sold to others.

Popotte · Apr 2, 2021

For GoPinball, the problem is clear. Old version, non updated, so spammer just crawl with a lot of spams. During 2-3 months, I deleted all the spams, but 100 spams, then 200, then 300, then ... per day for a single man, it's too... So, the 4 november, I just stop to delete spams.
The situation:

So, about 196 000 spams, so about 1 300 spams per day.
And here you don't have all the spams...

druadic · Apr 2, 2021

I have no idea what this site is and never visited it. I never knew it existed. Of course not many folks are fond of pre war tables and skill machines. Oh well, this is kinda sad actually, never like to see a site go off.

AnonTet · Apr 2, 2021

@druadic

Just because one might not enjoy something it doesn't mean it shouldn't be preserved. Just look at M.A.M.E critics on hardware that it emulates that "no one gives a crap" about. And it still thrives.

Personally what you do is important and it should never be forgotten because it is history. Thank you for that.

Paolo · Apr 2, 2021

Popotte said:
For GoPinball, the problem is clear

I am saddened by this, I do not understand why the administrators do not do something ... I made an appeal some time ago, putting many entries like this: administrators where are you?
but no answer, I can understand that there is no time and desire, but at least a small intervention to explain .... I wonder if it continues like this, ends up that could close this too?

Now,also...pinsimdb.org,it became very slow.

Isaac Sauvage · Apr 2, 2021

Okay, I got permission to share this one; hope there are many more of these VPinball gems to come!

VPX - Gottlieb - SS - Recreation - Tee'd Off (Premier, 1993) VPX

Tee'd Off (Premier, 1993) VPX v1.2.5 [DT, FS, B2S] IPD No. 2508 With the unfortunate demise of VPinball.com, I thought it would be nice to feature some of their excellent hits on PN, as a sort of tribute. William had previously agreed to share...

pinballnirvana.com

druadic · Apr 2, 2021

As for the very top post, actually VP was created for computer users in mind and this was for years. Nothing wrong with making cab machines for this program but I do see where he's going with this. I personally do not see the excitement of having a whopper of a machine standing there when you have a computer that can do the job just the same, but yes I get it - folks want a better experience so they made machines that look and feel as best as possible as a real machine. I understand.

Ever since the "cab scene" things went from just a basic computer pinball paradise to something I'll never understand. If you like cabs, great! Enjoy yourself. I'll simply post if you like this then have fun. I for one don't see the point of blowing money on something you already have: a computer. Perhaps it's the fun and joy of having what is pretty much like a real table which is cool, but I for one don't need it - I have my computer and can still play the same thing a cab player does. Cool both ways. Also the factor of having a back glass on another screen is kind of interesting to say the least. Like I said, I have nothing against cab players or users.

I've never used that site and just now heard of it. I can see this as a kick to the gut sort to speak for many folks who used the site but like I said, I can see where he's going with this.

Over the years MORONS would take tables (mine as well) and sell them for profit. This hobby is for everyone to create, share and just enjoy the virtual world of pinball. I remember over the years how many jackasses really started playing around with this and ticking off authors. If I could personally find each and every single one of these LOSERS I would be cracking skulls. Of course there are those who have no respect for themselves so they have no respect for others. I always remember KARMA will find them and give them the justice they deserve.

My tables ARE NOT MADE FOR CAB systems. It's the reason I make what I do and release them - the desktop computer pinball user has pretty much been kicked out of a huge loop for tables. I have no idea how many other authors that are out there that focus on desktop tables but I hope there are many more. I LOVE to play anything on my computer screen, especially pinball even if it isn't like the real thing. It's just fun, you already have the machine you need and all you have to do is download a table and place it in the tables folder. Simple and fun for everyone.

What used to grind my gears is all the work authors put into tables FOR FREE and get no feedback - not even a post. Not even that is needed. Just rate a table. If folks have time to download a table you have time to post to an author. Over the first years of VP I cared about this deeply and even begged folks to tell me what they liked, what they hated. Not a peep. I'm now not caring as much about this since I know if folks download something I know they liked it enough to even look at the screenshot and took the time to download the author's work. That's pretty much good enough for me - I know there are folks out there that like my tables and that's great and all I can say is have fun.

Oh yes you can blame my "pre war pin machines" releases for being what you hate. I've heard it over and over during the years and I just laugh back at those folks. I'm happy you hate the machines that made pinball what it turned into. I'm a VERY BLUNT guy and just have to say I now know where the saying "ignorance is bliss" is coming from.

Then came the "cab" scene. "Let us build a cab for you". "Buy parts to make a cab". Download "table packs" (and pay for it). Places started to pop up all over the place and it was VERY EMBARRASSING. Even Ebay was crammed full of table packs. When all this started the VP community started to fight back and for good cause; VP and it's tables are free.

I've said my piece and stand by it and you can troll or punish me in any way you see fit. I've been working with Visual Pinball for 20 years; I was here when the first release was put out and Randy Davis put the program out. It started as a very much promising and blossoming hobby and just got more interesting as time went by. Things were VERY rough at first and authors starting to figure things out and things got much better, but when the "cab scene" hit things really changed. I personally don't want to know about most of this came to pass, but I do know I prefer tables that don't require "other hardware" to play games that can be played on a normal, basic computer system. It's what VP was all about.

I can only wonder what Randy Davis thinks about all this. My respect to those folks who still make VP what it is today and yes, I am thankful for you guys as you keep the pinball fire burning.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, but I for one have no desire to make anything for cabs. I just don't care about them.

AnonTet: Thanks for that post. I think everything authors do are a way of preserving what the folks missed through the years as pinball pretty much curled up in a little ball and disappeared. I for one was one of the lucky ones who actually got to play numerous machines though the years, but had a very deep fondness for the founding fathers of what we call "pinball". The simplicity, the art, the basic non electric usage of "pre war pin machines" are what drew me into the scene since so few were working on them. Don't get me wrong, I played flippered tables and even went to the pinball expo at the Mariott in Chicago and had a lot of fun but it was those "oldie but goodie" machines that just grabbed my attention. I even got the honor of visiting Mark Weyna who worked for Bally for MANY years and got to see a treasure trove of pin machines from the past. I couldn't believe how many machines he grabbed over the years; there must had been over 300 machines in that basement. I even got photos of quite a few "pre war" machines as he took the machines out for me to take pictures of them. Mark was and is a nice guy for doing all that for me. I know he had a Gottlieb Speedway that just blew my mind and it's where I got the first pictures. He also had a "Baby Leland" and many others like Bally's Heavy Hitter. It was truly mind blowing to mess around with all these.

TerryRed · Apr 4, 2021

This is how I deal with things. The focus was about giving thanks to randr... addressing the appearance of my clone... and supporting the vp sites.

Isaac Sauvage · Apr 17, 2021

@TerryRed,
Whatever happened with the 'clone' thing, assuming it got semi-resolved?

TerryRed · Apr 17, 2021

Ike Savage said:
@TerryRed,
Whatever happened with the 'clone' thing, assuming it got semi-resolved?

Oh he's still out there... just not acting as my clone anymore because everyone knows who he is. He's ben booted from various sites and groups from what I've heard.

VirtualPinball · May 2, 2021

MATE

TerryRed said:
Oh he's still out there... just not acting as my clone anymore because everyone knows who he is. He's ben booted from various sites and groups from what I've heard.

LOL

TerryRed · May 2, 2021

VirtualPinball said:
MATE

LOL

Interesting...because I didn't post anyone's name whatsoever in that video (just posted the pic of the post showing the fake account)... nor have I made reference to any person whatsoever on any site regarding "who" it is.

As for the video.... it certainly isn't showing anything to do with anyone's "business". If that web site is your business's website... then you may want to rethink that, as you are then admitting to using it for promoting the inclusion of the content on there, and possibly the sale of such.

That said... I was actually planning on taking that video down, as I want to move on from the closure of VPinball.

VirtualPinball · May 2, 2021

TerryRed said:
Interesting...because I didn't post anyone's name whatsoever in that video (just posted the pic of the post showing the fake account)... nor have I made reference to any person whatsoever on any site regarding "who" it is.

As for the video.... it certainly isn't showing anything to do with anyone's "business". If that web site is your business's website... then you may want to rethink that, as you are then admitting to using it for promoting the inclusion of the content on there, and possibly the sale of such.

That said... I was actually planning on taking that video down, as I want to move on from the closure of VPin

There is nothing for sale at all on my website forum we are dedicated to the data preservation of virtual pinball. Virtual Pinball download forums

CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler · Jul 8, 2023

I don't see anything wrong with pinball cabinets running VP tables, unless they install a coin slot to run games for money as an actual arcade machine. Bolting a 4:3 and a 16:9 flatscreen together and hanging an upside-down analogue joystick as tilt pendulum underneath does not harm anybody. (IMO also flipperless VP tables need to have simulated tilt sensors, but set insensitive enough to still permit moderate nudging.)

I am playing here VP8 on a 22'' Trinitron CRT and currently my Win98SE mainboard (dual PC case made from Highscreen Colani bigtower), which is as far from cab stuff as it can be. And yes, I do enjoy EM (eons ago I owned a Bally "Champ") and flipperless stuff.

20degree · Jul 9, 2023

It sad that vpinball close. I still remember Gopinball and Pinsimdb that my self and many users loved soo much. I do hope that Pinballnirvana will stay for many many years. It help so much peoples to create there own pinball games, beside the great ressources it have here. I always find hard that great pinball websites get out, because it is part of the peoples history; and it is still of peoples history.

The amazing pinball creations of many users, that show the many great good talents from peoples. There are peoples that are talented in sound, in graphics, in scripting, in logics, in designs. I can imagine the so many talented users of vpinball, this beside Gopinball, Pinsimdb, Ravarcade, Terry, Christopher; peoples here on Pinballnirvana. Yup it sad that there are pinball websites that close for multiple reasons.

CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler · Jul 9, 2023

Eons ago when I lived in a shared apartment, I had bought a broken and beaten up "Bally Champ" EM pinball machine and got it back to work (had to wind a burnt flipper solenoid coil etc.). Eventually I sold it (the moist cellar wasn't good for it anyway), and where I now live I have not enough space for a pinball machine. My main PC is a Highscreen Colani bigtower (AMD K6-3@550MHz, 768MB RAM, GeForce 3 TI 200 graphics, 2 genuine ISA soundcards, DFI K6 BV3+ mainboard, Win98SE/KernelEx and old Linux on 160GB HDD). As a collector of vintage electronics I had heavily misused the old system for storing huge quantities of downloaded HTML pages (schematics of music keyboard hardware etc., some 10000 old eBay pages etc.) until FAT32 became too clogged for gaming. In 2008 I had lost most of the game and emulator installation in a filesystem crash by too old mainboard drivers anyway, so I had no pinball games on it anymore and lost interest in VP forums.

Not least because Win98SE could not run modern webbrowsers, in 2018 I finally dismantled and heavily modified the Colani bigtower case (took me a year, also for adding TEMPEST-style RF shielding) to install an additional modern PC mainboard (Ryzen 2400G, 16MB RAM, AsRock B450 ITX mainboard, 8TB HDD) running Linux Mint and Win10 on the 22'' 4:3 Trinitron CRT monitor. Now I am reinstalling many of the old original games and emulators. I still have >440 downloaded VP6 pinball games and want to make them playable again. On the old 550MHz CPU some VPinMAME stuff ran slow. So it would be best to install them now on the modern mainboard (but WINE yet has some issues with VP8 and earlier). Ask me If anybody needs older versions of VP tables or the EXEs.

1st2MprovFIRE! · Jan 24, 2024

CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler said:
Eons ago when I lived in a shared apartment, I had bought a broken and beaten up "Bally Champ" EM pinball machine and got it back to work (had to wind a burnt flipper solenoid coil etc.). Eventually I sold it (the moist cellar wasn't good for it anyway), and where I now live I have not enough space for a pinball machine. My main PC is a Highscreen Colani bigtower (AMD K6-3@550MHz, 768MB RAM, GeForce 3 TI 200 graphics, 2 genuine ISA soundcards, DFI K6 BV3+ mainboard, Win98SE/KernelEx and old Linux on 160GB HDD). As a collector of vintage electronics I had heavily misused the old system for storing huge quantities of downloaded HTML pages (schematics of music keyboard hardware etc., some 10000 old eBay pages etc.) until FAT32 became too clogged for gaming. In 2008 I had lost most of the game and emulator installation in a filesystem crash by too old mainboard drivers anyway, so I had no pinball games on it anymore and lost interest in VP forums.

Not least because Win98SE could not run modern webbrowsers, in 2018 I finally dismantled and heavily modified the Colani bigtower case (took me a year, also for adding TEMPEST-style RF shielding) to install an additional modern PC mainboard (Ryzen 2400G, 16MB RAM, AsRock B450 ITX mainboard, 8TB HDD) running Linux Mint and Win10 on the 22'' 4:3 Trinitron CRT monitor. Now I am reinstalling many of the old original games and emulators. I still have >440 downloaded VP6 pinball games and want to make them playable again. On the old 550MHz CPU some VPinMAME stuff ran slow. So it would be best to install them now on the modern mainboard (but WINE yet has some issues with VP8 and earlier). Ask me If anybody needs older versions of VP tables or the EXEs.

I ran into a situation some-what like yours recently. As,I found my old XP PC that had been my VP8 "security-vault"(rendered offline & all),in-operable last week,or so. Which,is why I'm here,again(I used to belong in 2012). Trying to get back the core system files I was unable to save,at the time...

That is,when I finally prepared to save everything,it was /just/ before the end-of-service for XP & I NEVER expected I wouldn't be allowed to copy the VP/PinMAME files. So,I lost the chance to save them. I mean,I was reading about how incompatible ppl were finding VP8/9 was,w/ Win7(also 8,but that didn't affect me)& my new PC was on Win7. So,I would NEVER risk erasing it from my XP,in order to migrate it over. I mean,I might've lost EVERYTHING if I couldn't get it working properly. So,I left everything that I was unable to save,on the XP & relied on it for playing VP...

On top of that,I had nearly /every/ VP1-VP8 file possible,on the old XP. So,it would've been a MASSIVE amount to recover,if something like that /had/ happened. As,the only VP tables missing,were some early/obscure originals I could never find /anywhere/ & a few ROMs I forgot to grab in time. So,I focused on just thinking of everything as complete & locked-away safely on the XP PC. But,after playing the tables so extensively the first several years,I kinda missed my other games & I was also worried I might be over-using my only source for playing VP. So,I put things aside,until very-recently. When,I started getting the urge to get back into everything(I had been meaning to before now,but something always distracted me from doing so)...

However,(coming back to the present)I nearly couldn't find that Flash Drive,when it /finally/ came time for it to be needed,to continue w/ my current PC(I had to get another,w/ Win7 losing support,as well). So,that's what I really meant,by what I first said...

Also,I can't believe SO much has disappeared from these sites & that VPX is so heavy w/ the graphx requirements! I mean,I'm still fine w/ VP9. So,I haven't checked to see if my Win10 can even handle the recent VPX7.2 that EVERYONE seems to be making tables w/,now. And here I thought basic VPX was impressive. I mean,I really wish VP9xx still had /some/ support...

But,it looks like no one else is using low-end equipment,anymore(your new rig blows mine away,entirely). It's actually strange tho,considering how ppl back in 2012 were still using Win2000,sometimes. I mean,this seemed to be a thing that was gonna remain easily-accessible to even those w/ 10yr-old PCs(like mine). I mean,I thought some of the VP9 tables were about as good as we might /ever/ see...

What's even more surprising tho,is how some VP8 tables are STILL the only known versions of some tables! I would think making-sure ALL tables were VP9.xx-quality would've been the focus,all this time. Rather,than it be about picking certain tables to be constantly-upgraded to look good on UHD screens(especially,the "original" designs)...

Anyway,sorry for the length & griping. But,it's a shame that it looks like some tables are going to remain barely-VP8 quality,while everything-else is being upgraded to look like they're made for the PS4,or something...

BTW-If anyone actually reads this far,somehow(I know it's not likely

),I also offer my old VP files. So,if anyone wants to know what it was like for us,a decade-or-more ago & has the patience to wait a few days after msging. As,I'm not online much,normally. PM me,if U want,as well...

CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler · Jan 24, 2024

Even MAME has started to increase hardware requirements to partially insane levels. E.g. Sega 8-bit arcade games with analogue sounds and speech synth (mostly vector) need now highend CPU, else they stutter at something like 10% speed because apparently the mixing of analogue sound and speech chip is emulated in a terribly inefficient way that nobody intends to fix. Although It uses the netlist analogue circuit emulation (which generally needs more CPU power), other games with similar sound technology aren't that slow. Also some other parts of MAME seem to be not services anymore, which broke some games/systems those on old MAMEs worked ok. The problem is that when hundreds of programmers had contributed to the platform, many have left (or died) and either took their knowledge with them or others simply don't care about that particular system. Therefore it must be the human right of culture preservation to keep old software runnable (e.g. by a nested emulation layer) and not to drop support once commercial interest or most of the fanbase has disappeared.

I am e.g. interested in the history of driving simulation, which is even more a special interest nerd topic than pinball, and many facts (e.g. that first person racing games were invented in Germany, by VW (first computerized driving sim ever) and Foerst (the "Nürburgring" arcade machines, those several versions were in early 1980th as popular as "Pole Position") are mostly unknown and films or screenshots very hard to find or lost forever.