I feel so at home here now...

[faralos]

seems like whenever I log onto that other site all i get are insults and putdowns why is that? it's mostly the same people who are on both sites so why do I get trashed there and here I feel like I'm at home base where I am safe. used to like vpf but lately all I get is trash talk, I try to help people but all I get are insults from the sysops for trying to help. okay my answers may not be all right but there are others there who post wrong things too and they (as far as I know) never get reprimanded over it
I am not expecting any reply just spouting off
just sucks I think...bu to have the gall to toss a new tag in my signature insulting me is too much so i took it out, I don't know of the repercussions I'll get for erasing something a sysop put in but it's insulting, whether it's meant to be or not it went too far...

 

[yogiholzer]

Hello faralos,

I hope you aren't pissed about the intelligence test thread I opened there. Yes, your IQ thread was the occasion, but I didn't make the efford to read and understand all the posts there, so I don't know about the content in detail.

The test I posted is called Ostfriesen-Abitur here. That means Ostfriesen diploma. Ostfriesen are people from a certain part of Germany. From bad jokes that are often made between several ethnic groups in one country (North- and South-Germans, Bavarians, Swabians, Saxons, ...) Ostfriesen got the reputation of to be featherbrained. So the Ostfriesen-Abitur can't be passed by logic and intelligence, but you have to think "different". So or so it's just only fun.

It was no way meant against or to insult you.

About other things that may happen there I'm not informed. I don't read there much, just only some few threads that seem to be interesting by thread title.

Don't worry about small disharmony in atmosphere. It's nearly always everywhere from time to time and it's mostly just temporary for a short period. You aren't save from that here also. It's product of gathering of people.
http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&p=Ci4HO3kMAA&search=group&trestr=0x8001

 

[tiltjlp]

I don't post often at VPF myself, since I feel all they care about is VPM and cabinets, although they deny it. They even have a project to create artificial ROMS for EM tables, which I believe is totally wrong. Altering your signature to add an insult should result in a lifetime ban for whoever did it. I think the old saying about Power Corrupting may apply is that situation. This site has usually been a bit laid back.

 

[faralos]

also I am antsy over my gal having to go into the hospital on Friday for two operations so I tend to get a little snotty with some of my posts esp in the past week she is going in for both an umbilical hernia and a Hiatal hernia operation so i am worried over that too and it may show in some of my posts
and i have no problems with anyone making fun of me... after all I am Polish

 

[yogiholzer]

It wasn't even making fun of you, but it was for fun in general.
If I had the idea earlier, I would have already posted the test.

All the best to your gal.

 

[druadic]

I don't post often at VPF myself, since I feel all they care about is VPM and cabinets, although they deny it. They even have a project to create artificial ROMS for EM tables, which I believe is totally wrong. Altering your signature to add an insult should result in a lifetime ban for whoever did it. I think the old saying about Power Corrupting may apply is that situation. This site has usually been a bit laid back.

Yep. Exactly.

 

[druadic]

seems like whenever I log onto that other site all i get are insults and putdowns why is that? it's mostly the same people who are on both sites so why do I get trashed there and here I feel like I'm at home base where I am safe. used to like vpf but lately all I get is trash talk, I try to help people but all I get are insults from the sysops for trying to help. okay my answers may not be all right but there are others there who post wrong things too and they (as far as I know) never get reprimanded over it
I am not expecting any reply just spouting off
just sucks I think...bu to have the gall to toss a new tag in my signature insulting me is too much so i took it out, I don't know of the repercussions I'll get for erasing something a sysop put in but it's insulting, whether it's meant to be or not it went too far...

Faralos;

You'll find that certain "folks" who don't want you at a particular site will do what they can to either; 1: get you banned, 2: make you leave, 3: make you feel inferior OR 4: constantly attack you until something else happens. It's happened to me in the past but I for one have no desire to start up a "fire fight" once again.

I've learned once thing with VP (which is nearly dead) is that you don't want to help others as much as you possibly can. It will create a backlash from others who just have nothing better to do in life than be cranky, skanky and just plain asses. I say if they want to be cranky then let them wallow in "self pity" and feel sorry for themselves and they'll most likely have no one later in life that they can call a friend. Leave them be - ignore them and be the man. Turn away.

I've done it twice already, once at the beginning of VP and when I just left before. Truly I've had enough but am still working on VP for the non masses. I enjoy it and have more fun keeping my work to myself. I don't have to hear a lot of BS. Those folks KNOW who they are.

Simplistically, ignore them. It's the best policy and you are the real man.

I STILL get emails for my "flipperless" work. Why share them with a community that "shames" them? Give them to the folks that enjoy them only. Why help others when you're being "chased" off? See my meaning? Don't help anyone any longer. Let the "know it alls" be just that and when the time comes and you figure something out that they haven't, to hell with them. Let them think they are "know it alls".

It's like the folks over there that say PCLinuxOS is confusing. Bullshit. It's not tough if you read and pay attention to what you must do to make it run and install right. ANYONE can install this OS and save face when they get the blue or black screens of death via winblows. I'm running more games via PCLinuxOS than I ever did with winblows - winblows AND DOS games. Practically everything winblows runs Linux does as well. Folks just don't want to learn using a REAL OS.

PS: I've NEVER crashed running anything via PCLinuxOS. Winblows is another matter.

 

[Shockman]

I had that kind of thing happen as well. I have been banned for things in my sig that I did not put there. I've been banned for things I did put there as well, but that is beside the point. VPF may stay on line, but it does not deserve to be on line. having double standards is one thing, most people have them to some degree, but banning someone for life because someone else wanted it, after the mission statement Paul posted here, as well as the personal assurances, lowers himself to a place he seems comfortable with, but should not. I doubt that all the authors independently stopped mirroring the tables here, given how Paul openly expresses his feelings for this site. This site has dropped the ball as well by not posting the latest VP9 here but instead a more bugged (I assume, as I have never had the chance to try 9.12 or what ever the latest version is). And Pinball Nirvana is a link on Wikipedia's VP section, so it should make some effort to be current. I cant find the latest tables anywhere either except for VPF where I can not try them either.


I disagree about the trouble makers there being here as well though. They are normally not here.

VPF has a right to be exclusive, as far as content or membership, but it does make Paul a liar when the membership is exclusive to any degree.

The remarks that VP8 is dead (It's used, so it is not), The ball through the flipper work around is the worse thing to ever happen to VP (pure bullshit), VP9 nudging is better than VP8 (VP9 does not work at all unless you buy into a sponsored product there), etc. suggest if not make obvious the fact that what Paul said here (and there) about VPF was then and is now untrue, and not in the best interest of this community.

Both are small niches though, PN and VPF with PN not keeping up with VP and VPF switching to UCVP and declaring VP for the desktop computer 'dead', and doing nothing to make VP work as good as it once did in that environment.

Cabinets make the tables look flat, and unreal, but they have made strides to change that, yet they say making a key activate the nudge function is too much work. No one could believe that. It's almost like VP8 never existed, and the people that pioneered VP don't exist, or that they were instead just fucking up VP. That is what was said about the ball through the flipper work around, that is should have been marked with a big flashing light saying this does not work. We all know better than that. That upset me. But it was just the start. "It stopped VP from ever being fixed" (untrue because according to Randy, he never say the problem occur), yet VP9 nudging using a keyboard (though it does not work at all with a keyboard) is better than VP8... These people are not idiots, so they are just mean and assholes.

Don't you dare stand up to them, especially if you are right though. Not if you want to remain a member there.

I regret being banned from VPF though. It is the only place to find most anything current regarding VP after all. I don't regret being excluded from a few there though, because I would always want to be.

Paul could have said 'Destruk don't want you here and I need him here' though. That would have been stupid, but it would have been honest. It surly would have been better than saying stupid things like I was the reason VP8 was never fixed proper for the ball through the flipper problem, or my suggested speeds made the downswing instant when they in fact made them about correct speed, or that gravity is what causes flippers to return in real life, and other stupid things, though nothing as stupid as that gravity point in a campaign as it turned out, to upset me into being rude enough to give them an excuse to ban me. Fuck you destruk, you are lowest form of life this world could sustain, enjoying a site your successful campaign caused my exclusion from, yes, even if my own reaction to it it sited. Paul, you know what you are. If not, re-read VPF's mission statement here and you will be clued in.

seems like whenever I log onto that other site all i get are insults and putdowns why is that? it's mostly the same people who are on both sites so why do I get trashed there and here I feel like I'm at home base where I am safe. used to like vpf but lately all I get is trash talk, I try to help people but all I get are insults from the sysops for trying to help. okay my answers may not be all right but there are others there who post wrong things too and they (as far as I know) never get reprimanded over it
I am not expecting any reply just spouting off
just sucks I think...bu to have the gall to toss a new tag in my signature insulting me is too much so i took it out, I don't know of the repercussions I'll get for erasing something a sysop put in but it's insulting, whether it's meant to be or not it went too far...

 

[yogiholzer]

Damn, now I feel taken back to some or more or many years ago. Thanks for the unwanted time travel, Shockman. No!

Edit: Too much discussible content removed.

 

[Noah Fentz]

You know what, Shocky, I'm really, REALLY tired of your bullshit, conspiracy theories, and misinterpretations. First, you were banned because I wanted you banned. You harassed the shit out of me on the site and in emails. I'll say this one more time for the benefit of everyone ... When a member is ruining the enjoyment of the site for me, they have to go. I'm the guy putting in all the hours maintaining, updating, fixing, supporting, and everything else I do. Second, when you say my mission statement included no one was banned from there, only a moron would interpret it the way you have. It didn't mean no one will ever be banned, it meant that no one currently banned from AJ's is banned at VPF. You make your own history at the new site, and you did just that. Third, VP8 is not dead. Just the other day, I suggested someone use it, instead of VP9, due to hardware limitations. Don't confuse the stance of the majority of members as that of the administrator. If I thought it was dead, the content would be removed. Fourth, I read your post about who do we think we are and what gives us the right to host ROMs. Well, I'll tell you exactly who we are. In particular, I am the guy who has worked very hard to legitimize what we do with the right people in the industry. You know, the guys that actually HAVE the licenses and/or ownership of the ROMs to allow us to do so? Destruk is the guy who has put in COUNTLESS hours gathering, organizing, and verifying those ROMs. So, yeah, we have every right. Get your head out of your ass. Finally, you are one of only THREE people to ever be banned for any duration, so your "Don't you dare stand up to them, especially if you are right though. Not if you want to remain a member there." line is a load of crap. Many a member has 'stood up to me', and they are all still there. It's all in the delivery, and yours sucks. I gave you every chance, exchanged nearly a hundred emails with you to try to work through your quirky personality, and yet you still insist on running me down. The problem with you and VPF is you, man. Get it straight.

 

[druadic]

Honestly, Paul has every right to be online - it's his site and he's paying for it. Paul and I have never really got along but over time we finally agreed on just about everything. I do admire all the work Paul put into that site - his hard work and dedication. He's busted his ass to make that site what it is today even though a LOT of it has no interest to me.

There are certain folks (users) at VPF that have driven me nuts. To this day they still do but it's nothing against Paul or VPF in general.

Yes, I feel VP has taken a back seat by 95% of the users over there but it just doesn't concern me any longer. I don't care. I still enjoy VP and still make stuff for it but not for the masses.

MANY folks have called PN "home" for several reasons. You have no idea how many times I've heard this Faralos. It's mind boggling.

Why folks can't find newer releases in other sites besides VPF is weird. More than likely most folks don't know about IR Pinball and PN allows uploads of older as well as newer tables. Of course just placing your work in VPF and nowhere is else is a bit selfish but it doesn't bother me.

As far as I'm concerned, VP is gone. I never got into VPinMame but that doesn't mean it isn't good. Future Pinball BORED me to death; graphics do NOT make a game, gameplay DOES.

Shocky, I've been badgered, bothered and irked by many folks not only at VPF but here as well. What is funny is that everytime I post there are a TON of reads in threads. I have no idea why or what is up but it no longer concerns me any longer. A word to the wise: just ignore it. That goes for Faralos, Shockman AND Paul. Ignore each other, quit being a pain in the ass to each other and forget it. It's helped me since I don't post much any longer anyway.

Faralos; I have quite a few friends that are Polish. I'm Native American so trust me, I know where you're coming from. By looking at me, you'd swear I was a normal looking white man. :)

 

[Shockman]

I did not say that. Personally I did not assume it meant no one would ever be banned. Banning is a tool that is needed to hackers, spammers, bigots, thieves etc. away.

I was only talking about what you said about everyone being treated the same and everyone that wanted to continue to be a part of the community would have that chance. My only chance obviously was if I was willing to take whatever was said about me, and it was about me, and give no response. Banning someone down the road after saying that does not make you a liar, and I never suggested that.

Telling me my contributions were bad for the community, does not work, and putting some unfounded number in the argument ruins some of the enjoyment for me as well, but that don't matter to you. I said nothing I did not believe to be constructive, or have changed my mind about, about the direction VP has taken, and the apathy towards those that wish not to buy the expensive hardware that makes VP look worse in some ways, but is needed to make it work as UC engineered it to work, and I did not even mention that until things were said to me that I can not believe were even believed by you and destruk.

If our roles were reversed in what was said, I'm sure I would have been banned for life as well, but I would not be so sure that I did not deserve it.

"The problem with you and VPF is you, man. Get it straight." If you believed that to be true you would have something to say about it. You are good at pointing out this or that when it benefits you, but this and that just does not exist when it should be benefiting me. What did I do before the attack and lies about my flipper problem work-around? What did I say afterwords that was as bad or worse than my being told I was the reason VP8 was never fixed, or it just don't work, or it just improves it by another 4 out of a hundred saves, that it was instant, that it did not simulate the real life gravity fed return, that it should be marked by a big red flasher and say this is not right, or that it was the worse thing that ever happened to VP. I was not standing up to you, or destruk that said most of this stuff, which you defend. I was standing up for myself, as a member of the community that trouble-shot some of VP's most nagging shortcomings, helped many others in their work, and contributed some of my own.

I know I did nothing to rub you the wrong way. If I am missing something, then what is it? I did nothing to rub destruk the wrong way either. I kept everything under my hat up until it was clear that our getting along was going to rub others that I had gone around with in the past the wrong way. I did not do anything to VP that was not appreciated as improvement, needed, impossible, or constructive. I was not the reason VP's flipper problem was not fixed. Ask Randy. It's another point that you continue to fail to address, unlike those that benefit yourself. He will tell you that he was never able to replicate it or produce the effect in his playing. He was aware others was plagued with it, but he was not.

It was not a problem though, until .org got a hold of a version with the fix, then all of a sudden the work around was the worse thing to ever happen to VP, in some of the more benign statements of one of your mods, to just plain not working in your own words. "nothing can be done about it. never was and never will be". But for me to then share that VP should be debugged, or tested better as to stop breaking existing stuff to get the niche hardware working better is some how personal? Caused you to loose enjoyment?

Misinterpretations. Do you mean missing your interpretation? Is there really only two sides, yours and the side of the wrong?

That which you call conspiracy theories is just me wondering out loud. I do wonder why VP 9.12 is not here. I wonder why all the authors stopped mirroring the new tables here, or anywhere that I can find. I have searched for the new build, and for the new tables and can not find them anywhere. My theory is that all the mirroring by all the authors would probably not have happened without conspiracy. If it is not the case that it was discussed then my theory, is wrong. What is so bad about someone being wrong? Or do you think the wrong part of it is that I would give my theory, it being right or wrong?

How could I be the worse thing to ever happen to VP and destruk say Pacdude was responsible for the flipper work-around? It could not have been the worse thing that ever happened, or even so bad at all if someone that would say such things does not even know. What he does know though is that it irks me that Pacdude had taken credit for it. This is what you are defending, not the coolness of your website.

I did not say you have no right to host roms, I just said it was at one point taboo, until you did it. I said you created your database by uploading tables without authors permission which was at one point taboo as well, and still is if it is not you doing it. I can read posts at VP and will until and unless you enhance the ban with an IP block or something. I think VPF was a disingenuous name as well. These things I did not bring up. I don't expect perfection from anyone, and I expect no one to think as I do. You on the other hand demand it, at least from me. I don't hold your reactions to anything against you. My reactions on the other hand is where it all starts in your mind.

You are not wrong to ban me from your site because you don't want me there. You are just wrong about every reason you give for doing so.

 

[Noah Fentz]

You're truly hopeless, Phil. Pardon the intrusion, once again. I just have a hard time remaining silent when someone is throwing false accusations and slanderous delusions out there as if they are fact. They are nothing more than the rantings of a stubborn, paranoid delusional. Good luck with that.

 

[Shockman]

A permanent ban of a member that has been there for the duration is just silly, especially when there is nothing you can site as a reason. I'm stubborn, paranoid of you only, but not delusional in the least. If I did anything out of line please state it for me. I would prefer you refrain from stating any exchanges that I was involved in but did not start, but if that's all you have, that will have to do.

You are welcome here. It is no intrusion to converse. I truly wish you did not have that mindset because it obviously swings both ways.

 

[Shockman]

I would like to try VP9.12 with the latest fixes, and I would like to try Flintstones Roadshow and some other later VP9 tables. Does anyone know where VP9.latest and the new tables can be found without a membership to VPF?

 

[Itchigo]

Since this is Faralos's thread I'll say it here. As your friend Faralos sometimes it looks like you post for the sake of posting rather than an interest in the thread. That's why you have so many posts. You also seemed to have the same revolving answers. Your a good friend and a nice guy, and I can understand being at home all day with your health and not really having much to do. If someone attached something to your signature- that's wrong and they should get in trouble for that. (I didn't know it was even possible).

I'm not going to say anything about the ban thing as I have no knowledge to say anything other than Paul's always been nice to me.

About VPF being cabinet oriented... I think it is getting more focused on cabinets- but more people are building cabinets, so you have to go with the flow. You have to go with what people want, and right now, a lot are building cabinets. There are a lot of die-hard 4/3 users like myself still out there. You can stick to the 4/3 purists but if you're in the minority then you're limiting yourself. My cab (which really is an oversized controller) is a one screen 4/3. The cabinets still look flat to me- even the best tables, so I'll stick to what I have.

Just my two cents.

I'd put up a copy of 9.1.2 for you Shockman but I can't find the attachment thing. Maybe my membership expired. I tried Pinball originals also, but I get a blank page. Maybe Faralos could put it up, I do find it odd that the last version I see here is 9.07 (one of the best in my book).

 

[faralos]

vp9.1.2

I could not figure out how to add link either so here it is in zip format. the freeimage file must stay in the same folder as the vp9.1.2 program. This is the minimal version. If you download the full version ALL your tables get defaulted to open in vp9.1.2 with the minimal version you get to pick what opens with what. (at least I think that is what the docs meant with each version!)
Itchgo, yeah you may be right with that. I happen to log on way more often than I really should and like to keep my two cents in (Yup I am a nosy dude) you are right I do tend to post just for the sake of posting at times so from now on I'll try to limit them a bit to more important topics, rather than to just spout off!

 

[Itchigo]

You don't have to log on any less. I'm on probably as much but do a lot of reading. If I can't contribute via knowledge or otherwise I just move on. That's all. Vpf and PN are great places, if you tone it down a bit you'd probably be ok over there. That's one of Noah's buttons by the way in his VIP thread, drama free as he put's it. (Maybe that's why he promoted me, I know it wasn't my good looks or my knowledge of VP).

By the way, for the record, I like both sites even if I spend a bit more time over there, and will continue to to contribute to BOTH sites.

 

[Shockman]

When and if it ever becomes lie free it will be a great place (VPF).

That statement you just quoted is another in a very long list of examples. The idiot, and I am truly feeling today that that is the best description, Honestly, and I believe this, does not understand that drama is not only drama if he is effected first hand of the drama.

What was said to the member about the flipper 'fix' never existing for VP8 is a lie and it was intended to create drama. All the rest that was said to and about me was drama.

Sure Paul does the work on the website and that part is included in every post. BUT What makes VP great and yes, VPF great is the members. The best crafted website as far as features and content in the world is actually the worse website in the world if there are no members. And that is doubly true when the members are providing the content. He has a large membership, so this is not the case with him, but the point is, and the point is that the members are what makes the site a success, not the work he puts into it.

What makes the site great for the members is that they are members. What makes the site great for Paul?


Thank you faralos for the file.

As for the PMs from other members of the community, I appreciate it, but I am not desiring covert operations. If it can't be done in the open then perhaps it should not be done.

What is needed is for members of VPF to ask VPF why the mirroring has stopped, and what would be the point of making this work obscure to the point of being at only one site.

Those emails Paul is talking about was all done during a ban, and I have about the same number from him as he has from me. This is not harm to any website, nor is it drama for any website.

 

[Shockman]

I really don't have a huge desire to be a member of VPF, though I do the community, but I also would like access to VP work that can be found nowhere else. I know this is possible, to allow limited access. He does not like to hear what I have to say if he disagrees (though he had no problem when I was beating the drum for his desired policy on table upload and other things). He does not tolerate harassment (I gather), but he had no problem involving himself in the harassment of other members (if only me).

VPF may be great, but it is fucked up.

I have did nothing to damage it in any way. I only gave my opinion of the bugs that were introduced by converting focus to only the sponsored hardware devices, which is true, and would be better if not, called cabinets niche hardware, a small niche, which it is. Cabinets are not majority, and if it becomes so, which it may, it will be because cabinets and VP will be soft and hard linked and the non cabinet niche and support will not exist. That is the only way. So if VPF membership becomes even 100% cabinet users, it would not be a sample of the possible base, but still a niche. Do not confuse for example only one brand of soda being available, as the majority favorite, if everyone that wants to drink soda drinks it.

How long has VPF.org been active? Over two years isn't it? And still you can not nudge the ball with the keyboard? With progress like this, who needs progress? Still cabinets are a niche (as is desktop use) at VPF and traditional builds do exist, and there are though restricted, ways to make the keyboard better for nudging, but no way in hell to make it as good as VP8 through tweaking the existing builds. I am a piss poor C++ coder and I have got some of this keyboard function back, so I know the coders could have a VP build with Keyboard control in less than a day (if they wanted to, or were allowed to) I say allowed to because it has been driven home that if it breaks the sponsored hardware function it can not exist, even as a separate build) another thing that my disagreement with makes me a problem for some reason. Though I can understand where a fully functional VP as far as being useful to everyone without a cabinet would give them a choice to maybe not buy a cabinet, and this would not be in the best interest of Paul and Virtual Pin, it would be best for the membership as a whole, and would be the best way to make the membership thrive. VP9 is not as good as 8 or even 1 in some very simple and basic ways, no matter what anyone says. This is often confused with a desire for 8, but it is merely a desire to have that basic function put back. There is no possible way a subroutine linked to a key press could have any effect on a subroutine linked to the hardware. This basic function is therefor not wanted, not difficult or impossible. It seems to me that after 2 years that it may actually be taboo. I would not wish Pauls hardware business to fail, but I can't help to feel it would be the best in the long run, if it is the only way to make him realize that VP has a tradition and a base that is being stripped for this purpose.

So my question, linking to the topic, is is this two sided? Is VPF going to have an exclusive on cabinet table builds, and horde the desktop table builds for some reason, and PN exclude cabinet builds and generally VP9? It sounds more like 8 vs 9 than hardware vs traditional use. Both seem selfish to me, as it should be based on members product, instead of any categorizing of the product.

 

[faralos]

You don't have to log on any less. I'm on probably as much but do a lot of reading. If I can't contribute via knowledge or otherwise I just move on. That's all. Vpf and PN are great places, if you tone it down a bit you'd probably be ok over there. That's one of Noah's buttons by the way in his VIP thread, drama free as he put's it. (Maybe that's why he promoted me, I know it wasn't my good looks or my knowledge of VP).

By the way, for the record, I like both sites even if I spend a bit more time over there, and will continue to to contribute to BOTH sites.

Me too! I like both sites, here it feels more adult oriented, there it feels more kid oriented, but both have good things to contribute to the pin community! That is why I continue to cross over to keep my foot in the door so to speak and will always post my tables on both sites! And I know some people here can't or won't cross over so this way they too have access to my tables and stuff. Sure vpf is starting to go the way of the cab, I start to see more and more posts on them, but hey if this is what people are doing to play vp then so be it. Not me, I prefer desktop playing with my regular NON rotated monitor but to each their own. and some of them are so innovative and imaginative too that they should have their own forum or site to spout off on what they can accomplish, given a thousand dollars and a garage full of wood and electronics! If I had the expertize i too would have tried to build one if only for the fun of actually making something (i am an artsy-craftsy type of guy but draw the line on electronic devices, those I leave to the experts!)
But I am happy both here and over at vpf, yeah I tend to step on toes at times but there are many of us who do and I get reprimanded when I step over the line (as well I should be!) so all in all in the long run and all that, I am very happy with the way I have been treated both here and there.
So back to playing pinball...