Nudging again

[Shockman]

I think this table could act as a base line for simple and basic nudge physics.
One ball will sit in a dip in the center of the wall. Of course a nudge would be plenty enough force being directional to knock it out of there, but the recoil will have to prevent that for the physics to be acceptable, in the least. A launched ball will come to rest against the left wall. A nudge being set strong enough to for demonstration will knock it into the ball in the center taking it's place there and knocking the other ball to the right wall. This showing that the action is acting on the table and not the ball, as evident by the table knocking the left ball to the center, and not hitting the center ball resulting in different ends to the same means.

Nudge again, before the ball hits the center ball and there will be slight hesitation as the table moves under the ball resulting in friction that effects the ball. This ball must for the most part. In all in term of human perception, not loose it momentum because of this. It should be on it same course with the same velocity as far as we can tell, afterward.


Until someone comes up with physics that do what is described on this table, then even in the most basic sense, VP has no nudging physics.

This table is scripted to make the described action work. You will see it's success and failings. But compared to VP9 and the default settings, it's nudging, vs a fucking joke.

The timers should not exist though, they do not work good and should not be needed. VP had nudging with a recoil all the time, from the start up until and not including VP9. It needs it. It's important.

There is some attention these days at VPF.org, which is good, but a core.vbs fix is not good enough. The core.vbs file is not even used outside of running VPM.

 

[tiltjlp]

I'll check it out Phil. Any improvement would be a big plus over what we have now.

 

[Neo]

I'll check this out when I get a chance. What passes for "nudging" in VP9 is equivalent to pulling off the glass on a real machine and just pushing a ball up the playfield. I'll confess I hadn't really noticed the nudge issues in VP9 before a couple of days ago, though I've read that people aren't happy with the implentation in VP9.

My question is: Why did they change the nudging from VP8 to VP9? Granted VP8's nudging isn't perfect, but it makes more sense than what's in VP9. Did they do that just for the cabinet folks?

I don't notice it quite as much on my own tables that I'm testing for VP9 because the tilt checkers usually kick in before it gets too bad. But I did notice on a blank table that I could just nudge the ball all the way up to the top of the playfield. I never took physics in school but even I know that's not at all right.

Take Care

 

[Shockman]

Yes. That is the sad part. In answer to your question, the nudge routines which were written for keyboard control was recoded to work with the cabinets. If this was done by VP devs the new devices would probably have gotten their own code set, but it was done by UC devs which had no reason for concern. The VP devs have left it that way though.

VP9 is a POS for keyboard nudging. But VP was not always that way. This nudging is a new feature that has existed the whole 9 cycle. I really hope nudging for cabinets is perfect. I hate to think nudging was sacrificed for a device and is not perfect for those few.

Ideally almost the entire action should be in the table movement. And that is what I am looking into in the code.

Everyone (except me, I am banned from there) should bug the devs over at VPF to fix this. Pin them down. Ask them if they are going to fix it or not. There is no reason for example that it could not be put back into at least VP8 standards. That is THE reason I am banned I believe. I would do that if it broke UC device usage. Fuck. UC device usage if UCVP is going to be the VP community's new VP should have it own fucking code. I know, Bob. They don't have to. But that's not the point.

 

[tiltjlp]

Why bug them about fixing nudging when they aren't going to do anything about it? All that would accomplish would be a lot more of us getting banned. It's a matter of picking your battles, and I for one don't see the sense of battling for something that just simply won't happen.

 

[Shockman]

Sometimes I still think of VPF as THE VP community. But only for a second or two at a time anymore.

 

[Neo]

I had a go with this, I put it into the VP9 version of Initial D I'm working on and it is an improvement over what's in VP9 by default. It's way better than anything I could come up with (I personally wouldn't know where to begin to compensate for the disgrace of a nudging system that is in VP9), so I'll probably implement this in all my tables I'm converting or building to use in VP9.

I like the gate image in that demo table, and if it's okay, I'd like to use the gate images in my own tables.