Gottlieb Sure Shot (Gottlieb, 1976) problem

[johnr2]

I have a Sure Shot machine which hasn't been used in 15 years. I've solved a few relay issues, but there is still a problem after start-up. The three bumpers work as expected, but none of the lane switches seem to activate any corresponding relays for initial scoring or the associated tracking of bonus points. (On this game. that means none of the bonus lights get activated.)

I don't have any schematics, but would anyone have an idea on where to start with this?

John R.

 

[Coil_Smoke]

Hey John, Are the POP Bumpers Scoring? Is there any other scoring activity? Is your Score Motor running and reset completing?

 

[johnr2]

Yes, the POP Bumpers seem to be the only things scoring, and the score motor is turning. Score board resets to 0000 at start of game.

 

[pinballdaveh]

GOTTLIEB SERIES RELAY

this problem is usually the series relay. replacing the series relay coil fixes this problem. i hope the coil paper part # is still readable. for info on this relay check out pinwiki em repair.

 

[johnr2]

I think you're right!! Just checked, and found the Series relay in the P position. Closer inspection showed one lead broken as it headed into the coil portion of that relay - actually charred a narrow path through the paper covering labeling it as an A9746!

Guess I'll need to track down an A9746!

Thanks for the expert response.

John R

 

[johnr2]

Thanks again Pinballdaveh - getting closer! Replaced the coil, and now the Series and 500/5000 relays are activating whenever a chute switch is closed. Still not scoring except with the bumpers and guides closest to the flippers.

Any "suspects"?

Cheers,

John R

 

[pinballdaveh]

what all targets and rollovers still dont work? does the series relay pull in and score points? do all score reels work properly? what other problems does it have?

 

[johnr2]

Hi Pinballdaveh,

The bumpers work and score, the switches behind the triangular rubber approaching the flippers on both sides work and score. Since the Series coil replacement, all the switches seem to activate the series relay and the 500/5000 relay, and the scoring motor turns - but none of those points ever make it to the scoreboard. This game tracks activated targets with the racked pool balls picture, but only the 7 & 13 ever light up.

The score reels seem to work fine, and reset properly when a new game is started.

 

[pinballdaveh]

the triangles above the flippers are called slingshots. i think they are worth 10 points each. when you hit them 10 times does the 100 score reel advance? the next thing to try is have a helper hit some 500 point targets while you watch the 100 point relay in the head if it pulses 5 times. unscrew and check pool ball rack light cluster and check for bad bulbs and loose sockets. do the both kick out holes score properly with 100's and 1000's ? is there a bonus feature with this machine is it working correctly?

 

[johnr2]

The "slingshots"" do seem to work and score as you describe - 10 points per hit. The score reel does advance properly, through the 100's, thousands, and 10's of thousands. I checked the lights, and they all work when the appropriate switch is closed in what I believe they call the "sequence bank". Only the 7/13 lights of the pool rack ever light up during play (somewhat randomly, but they stay on once activated, and I noticed they do score a thousand points each at the end of each ball played. These are the only bonus points ever awarded. The kick out holes both work well mechanically, and I can hear the switches activate the scoring motor, but no points awarded for the kickouts.

 

[pinballdaveh]

the sequence bank is the next thing to check, and its a big one. the biggest one i ever seen in a machine is in williams oxo, close to the same size used in shuffle alleys. to work on the sequence bank unplug playfield jacks and remove playfield setting it down with the sequence bank up. now its easy to inspect wires, breaks, shorts, and bad connections on the sequence bank wiring. after wiring has been checked or repaired, next un-tighten the 2 wing nuts and the sequence bank should flip up to work on it. tighten switch stack screws. check switch gaps for proper latching/tripping operation. lightly file switch points to clean. re-connect bank to bracket when done. install playfield and test.

 

[johnr2]

Thanks again, Pinballdaveh - all but two of the lights are now lighting up, and the bumpers light up, and score appropriately when they activate the 1000 point system!! (I didn't find any wiring issues on the sequence bank, but did go through the switches as you recommended.)

On the down side, I don't seem to get the bonus points associated with the lit up pool ball rack, and I need to push the ball across to start playing. I found a wire released from its connection on the bottom of the playfield - close to what I believe is the bonus system and coil. Nothing obvious to me as to where it connects. I've attached a picture ......... thoughts?

 

[pinballdaveh]

thank you for the pics of the wire off. actually it came off the black allen head screw next to it. once you loosen the screw you will see the rest of the wire loop. loosen the screws enough to wedge whats left of the connector in between the 2 pieces of metal and tighten down screw. that wire is a common for the all the scoring of the bonus unit.

 

[pinballdaveh]

in one of the pics i see two of the same wire soldered to the lugs of the rivet disc. this tells me that the bonus scoring uses 6 volts to pulse a 6 volt relay. so when each pool ball latch in trips it sends its 6 volts from its playfield insert light to the bonus unit rivet disc, then to each pool ball rack light. the 6 volt relay that gets pulsed might be called something like bonus score relay, this relay will pulse the 1000 point relay for bonus scoring. so if a pool rack light is out the rivet on the disc will not pulse the relay. double check the latch in switches. to continue repair pics of the gear/ratchet side of the bonus unit are needed.

 

[johnr2]

Thanks for the replies ....... sorry I just got back to it! I reconnected the wire as you recommended, and all but the #10 and #11 lights in the poll ball rack now light up when the corresponding rollover switch is activated. So at this point, the bumper "1000 points" scoring activates when balls 1-5 (side bumpers) and 6-9 (middle bumper) are all lit. So all bumper scoring works perfect now.

The Slingshots, as well as the upper 2-post slingshots also score as expected while the game goes on.

Although the roll-over switches (except 10 & 11) now activate their relays and lights, they don't provide any scoring during the actual - only 1000 points per lit ball when each "ball" is completed.

Here are a few pictures from the back of the bonus unit - hope they show what you are after!

 

[pinballdaveh]

all but #10 and 11 are now working. so the rollovers for the 10 and 11 do not latch in their relays on the sequence bank. if you trip those relays manually does all the pool rack balls light? and is the series relay closing its switch for scoring? when the original series relay coil went bad it might have taken a sequence bank relay coil or 2 with it. resistance tests of the sequence bank relay coils might be needed to test for bad coils. thank you for the extra pics, on the second pic the switch on the bottom is a zero position switch and transfers circuit from bonus to outhole.because of where this switch is placed the switch blades should be straight up and down , not bent. the center blade of the switch moves from the right blade to the left blade when the bonus unit advances from its zero position.clean switch contacts if needed.

 

[pinballdaveh]

gottlieb sure shot has a special meaning to me. when i was 17 i worked for a bowling house as a assistant pinsetter mechanic. when the tech's came to work on the pinball machines i would watch and talk to them about what i thought was the problem and solution, most of the time i was right. finally the manager/tech came in to work on sure shot when i told him the solution and after he repaired the machine he offered me a job right on the spot.