Testing the Matrix?

[StevOz]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/techn...-from-the-future/story-fn5jhv6y-1226536251540



What to do, if we are just a computer simulation?

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

i've had that open in another tab for a day or two... need to sit down and read the mofo.


but, yea... totally. it's definitely a simulation, no matter what. the 'meta-computer' consists of the particles / waves and a host of exacting rules to govern them all, including the governance of all other phenomena, such as the dimensions of space and time. and the solid notion that all further dimensions, even if we barely comprehend them, are still just as exactingly governed by the rules of nature. clearly a simulation.

only question is- is there any kind of intention behind it? i'm sure we'll never really know. then again, that's what the study aims for, non?

i was watching a short presentation from an astrophysicist a couple months ago in which he noted that by, um... doppler shifts and mass spectroscopy... that the speed of light is clearly not a constant. i mean, independent of particle collisions and gravitational wells, such as black holes. rather that as the universe expands, cools down, and becomes more scattered, the speed of light is altered by those factors independently. light, as well as quite probably other of our cherished 'constants'. still, the same idea is still thought to be true even as those things happen-- that there are still exacting natural laws that determine how and when the constants are altered.

way over my head, but still fun to BS about. :D

and i still gotta read that article!


EDIT: and what to do...? um... i would think, exactly the same as we're doing now? what really changes in any case?

 

[StevOz]

I suppose what really changes is as they infer a possibility that we maybe able to mess with the program, then the improbable would seemingly be possible, faster then light travel a little tweak here, magic a little tweak there? Any mistakes, oops well that proves the big bang theory...

Most recent research suggests as you infer that the universe is on an ever expanding and cooling path to it's eventual demise. Though perhaps it's just a case of the battery in the main super computer that simulates the universe needing a recharge or replacement? Which should reverse the cooling expansion of the universe.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

well, the material of the known universe is not only flying apart from itself too rapidly to entertain a "big crunch" as we supposed at one time, but it's continuing to accelerate such that even "the big cool down" is now in doubt. instead, we seem to be headed towards "the big rip," in which the four basic forces of the universe will eventually fall apart. d-day is a few billion more years IIRC, or significantly less than the known age of the universe (13.5B years).

I suppose what really changes is as they infer a possibility that we maybe able to mess with the program, then the improbable would seemingly be possible, faster then light travel a little tweak here, magic a little tweak there?

hmm.... well speaking in general, we didn't really need to prove or disprove the idea that the universe is a simulation in order to mess with those things, did we? we've already been messing with everything we can as soon as we realised such was possible AFAIK.

 

[StevOz]

To be honest I have little belief in the whole simulation theory, the whole universe is vastly to complex and unpredictable, also most facts in the realm prove stranger then fiction.

I tend toward the idea the theory which seems to indicate a dying universe is missing some inconvenienced and unimagined pieces or improbabilities.

Interesting you refer to WE, that I believe is the case WE being the universe, nothing exists in isolation and WE will continue to mess with it until WE/The Universe can reconcile US.

Which ultimately brings us to infinity, a concept which we readily accept ( x / 0 ) makes perfect theoretical sense and at the same time is a complete nonsense in reality, yet is in the foundation of all such concepts, undefined and undefinable, at the very least we may have a billion or so years to comprehend that.

That's one quote I've always liked...

To infinity and beyond

Strangely enough, as far as I can find, is only attributed to the fictional character Buzz Lightyear with no references I've found attributing it to any creator?

 

[StevOz]

Then again upon examination does zero/nothingness really exist or is it just another irrational theoretical construct? Thus rendering infinity to the realms of the Earth being flat and the centre of all creation?

 

[faralos]

all I want to know is should I take the red pill or the blue one?

 

[StevOz]

all I want to know is should I take the red pill or the blue one?

Why not both!

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

i need to reread "cosmic trigger" by robert anton wilson. that was one gifted, intensely curious dude who knew how to entertain an idea, no matter how wild.

i do not believe in anything! ...My own opinion is that belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence. The more certitude one assumes, the less there is left to think about, and a person sure of everything would never have any need to think about anything and might be considered clinically dead under current medical standards, where absence of brain activity is taken to mean that life has ended.

 

[sleepy]

I am A Private Variable, though there are Viruses all around.

 

[Shockman]

Then again upon examination does zero/nothingness really exist or is it just another irrational theoretical construct? Thus rendering infinity to the realms of the Earth being flat and the centre of all creation?

I think it's a rational construct.

 

[StevOz]

What I was inferring is that zero or nothingness does not exist in reality. Even a perfect vacuum is most likely to contain some particles and if not light passes through it and is inside the vacuum for a time also, then there is perhaps the cosmic ether which is supposed to be everywhere.

 

[sleepy]

Rational = ration, proportion, consideration of all parties and properties.
In touch with reality, or best case.

Irrational = without consideration of any parties, properties or proportions.

 

[sleepy]

Wouldn't that be that the photons of light exist within a space.
But a vacuum is nothing but for the pressure exerted by materials surrounding the vacuum? Like the sea against the hull of a ship, except as Negative Displacement.

 

[StevOz]

Fair enough wrong wording, how about with consideration of all parties, properties or proportions.http://www.pinballnirvana.com/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=94756

 

[sleepy]

Interesting. Thinking through the vacuum reference and trying to make some sense, it looks like the vacuum is an Energy. Probably nothing new *in theory*, but a better example would be that of a car moving down the road.
As the car moves, it displaces the air at a rate of volume equal to the dimensions of the car, at some equality to the mass of the car.
As the car moves on and out of the dimensional volume of the car, the displaced air then moves in to fill the space left by the car.

If the air is prevented from filling the space left by the car, then there is a vacuum.

So it looks like the car in motion represents Mass * Speed, and a vacuum represents Energy - Mass.

EDIT: Or, "the Energy of the vacuum" is actually the energy applied to the displaced air which originally occupied the space, which then increases the air pressure surrounding the vacuum.
In that case, a vacuum is nothing, though energies or materials may occur within that space.

 

[faralos]

and let's not forget Dark Matter
if that exists then there is no such thing as a complete vacuum
since it would be filled with dark matter and therefore not be empty at all
so a black hole where nothing is supposed to be
would actually be crammed full of dark matter!

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

RE: empty space,
i agree that there is no such thing as a complete, empty space vacuum. at least in theory. in theory, there would still be activity, such as the occasional neutrino whizzing by, subatomic particles popping in and out of existence due to quantum effects, and maybe / maybe not dark matter.


and let's be clear on that- dark matter is a hypothesis made to specifically explain why galaxies hang together... based on the fact that there is insufficient black hole and star mass to do so on their own. but dark matter in deep space? still very much an unknown AFAIK. or maybe i'm wrong about that last part-- not totally sure.


but even if you could isolate units of space that temporarily contained no passing guest particles of any kind, the space would still contain foreign matter, namely space itself. the reason that i say that is due to the theory that the universe, as it expands its mass, also expands its space. i.e., at the moment just before the big bang, our universe had no dimensions of space, and those dimensions were only created as business partners with matter itself. which leads to another interesting subject-- that our universe is clearly positively-biased. i.e., if positive matter and negative matter had completely equal weight across the board in the mathematical sense, then all matter would have cancelled itself out in our model, and we would not be here today. instead, for reasons we don't understand, a small fraction of positive matter did not get cancelled out by corresponding negative matter, and that small remnant is all the stuff that our planets, stars, galaxies and even dark matter is built of. that, and nothing more. nevermore!


RE: black holes are full of "nothing,"
strongly disagree. black holes by their very nature are filled with enormous amounts of material that they've absorbed. in fact, if matter had been spread completely evenly by the so-called big bang, then a mega-meta-super-black hole might have been formed as a result, and all matter (and space) sucked back into it... and therefore no universe, and therefore no PS3 games.


on a side note, black holes contain so MUCH loose mass that stephen hawking's greatest theory AFAIK is that of "hawking radiation"-- that black holes emit a radioactivity of particles over time, slowly spewing the contents of their enormous guts back in to space time as we know it. i.e., the most greedy and cutthroat rockefellers of this universe turn in to the biggest charitable donors. exhibit A in our world? see bill gates.

 

[Shockman]

I take the existence of dark matter as all the astronomers now do, as an axiom. It can not be viewed directly, but It is being mapped as we type. To maybe help convince you, you know how with a strong telescope you can see bodies behind other bodies because the gravity bends the light around them? Well it is not looking at the objects when mapping dark matter, but the bending of light when no visible object is there. Hubble images clearly show both instances. Dark matter is matter in the sense that gravity is matter, meaning something is there but the particles are the size of quarks at most. It will be seen and touched around the time gravitrons are.

You have read up on the theories of matter in black holes. A new theory is that this matter is condensed at a single point and when it reaches a point a big bang occurs on the other side. This theory has spawned the idea that our universe, as well as all others (if the theory is a fact, all the black holes have universes on the other side) are, the big bang, the opposite side of these things which still exist. This would suggest that somewhere in our universe is a black hole that would make the super massive ones like are in the center of the galaxies look like hand vacs being compared to an average black hole.

 

[Shockman]

This is the real theory. Gravitrons and dark matter may not even exist until the big bang happens. You know you get brand new particles when you collide existing ones and the properties of these particles don't exist in their creating particles. There may not be a black hole like the one I described if this is so. Just a point of pure energy.

The only theory of dark matter is the particles themselves, and I don't think there are really any theories about that. Just a fact that it exists, and a fact that no one knows or has any idea what it is.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

...A new theory is that this matter is condensed at a single point and when it reaches a point a big bang occurs on the other side. This theory has spawned the idea that our universe, as well as all others (if the theory is a fact, all the black holes have universes on the other side) are, the big bang, the opposite side of these things which still exist. This would suggest that somewhere in our universe is a black hole that would make the super massive ones like are in the center of the galaxies look like hand vacs being compared to an average black hole.

or one universe's grade of matter / energy has completely different size / mass properties in another universe. this would be make it possible for the 'ordinary' supermassive black holes in the middle of every galaxy to each spawn their own universe.

regardless-- fun theory that i hadn't heard before; thanks.

along those lines, this was a fun read from a couple weeks ago... "5 Reasons We May Live in a Multiverse":
http://news.yahoo.com/5-reasons-may-live-multiverse-205118857.html

 

[StevOz]

I question infinity exists and zero, trice so!

Which renders all such theories to be theoretical approximations at best.

 

[faralos]

so in essence a black hole when viewed from the other side
may appear as a white hole
meaning it is spitting out the crap it sucks in on 'our' side of it
and making more universes on that side
oh the possibilities of it all!
and I don't know if the universe can handle any more 'me's'
isn't one enough?

 

[Shockman]

That is one that I will never buy into (not saying you do). I can believe in multiple universes, but not parallel, or mirror, ones. It suggests a predetermined plan, not to mention the absence of randomness and chaos. There is one theory, related to string theory that supports the possibility, having to do with planes existing with the strings, but it's way out of my understanding.

 

[Itchigo]

Multiple universes are an interesting concept, but more a "state of mind" thing.

As for the vaccum thing , if there's a vaccuum involved, my mom will be there.....