A Pinball Nirvana exclusive VP development team.

[Shockman]

Having acquired VS.net 2008 and having previous knowledge of C++ programming, and some Windows programming, along with a couple months of looking at the VP source code. I think it would be simple enough to make a couple of derivatives of VP. One, a VP9 version (not to be called VP9) with all those features it has, that is build to run all VP8 tables with the settings they were built with. This version would not be compatible with existing cabinets. Actually they would just be as out of whack as VP8 desktop versions are with existing new VP builds. Another build would be a dual purpose build, also with a new name that is for the building of new tables. and running of existing VP9 versions. So actually a VP9. This dual version will start as simply as pretty much a rebuild of VP9 with full support back for desktop users, namely startshake will be in the program and activated on demand, but default to on, and automatically go off if the table is rotated a full 90 or 270. One feature demanding it, Just one, to pop up, which I don't foresee, but can imagine, and this dual purpose version may or may not any longer exist, but separate versions for portrait and landscape surly will.

In other words with a VP9 based version, dropping cabinet building in favor of full backward compatibility, and another version, VP9 based, Dropping all pretenses of backward compatibility, in favor of endless possibilities, Could surly be in the cards, as far as my efforts.

Don't answer this unless and until I release a build of VP that has
-a nice plunger (graphically)
-a shiny ball
-VISUAL FEEDBACK TO NUDGING What a concept!, I know! I think it will catch on though. It will after all be a smart feature, knowing when to work and when not in or at least soon after the first release.
-A different layout for Table1.

I am working on a solution for making VP. And have many ideas including
-6 custom table templates, plus Standard(4/3 on 4/3), Widescreen(4/3 on 16/9), Rotated (4/3 on 16/9), Rotated (16/9 on 16/9) and maybe rotated (4/3 on 4/3).
-Startshake both scriptable, and hooked into the rotation function.
-much more. A new improvement or feature a week I would think.

If this becomes as comfortable, as any other programming environment I have committed myself to, I would expect in the not too distant future,
-Upgrade of DX.
-A new controller system.
-A new Graphics system, with nothing short of PNG and Alpha transparency.
-New physics like spin, ball weight, ball size.
-Grouping elements of objects.
-In other words anything and everything that I either know, or can learn.

I am going to Idaho for a few weeks in a few days. There is still prep. and setting up I need to get a VP making solution. I have to find the DX7.0 SDK and set it up. Learn the compiling process of VS.net and hopefully that's it. I will try to get a version out before I leave (about 8 days) and the offer will come the day I have figured out how to make it. So maybe sooner than that, maybe later.

It will not be much of course, and I have done so much to the source code of VP without a making solution already, that I suspect I will have to start over with a fresh source. Most of what I have done that I could not test, if you can believe it, is for the cabinet building aspect of it. Trying to get the scaling and offset on the same plane, and redesigning the flippers for a deeper, more overhead look to swing on the table instead of trying to dig through it. At that is surly whack. I also looked into drawing the display to reflect the changes of the rotated and scaled table, that I know is going to create problems.

Suggestions and requests are pointless, because I am not going to make you think that all you need to do is suggest something and I would be willing, or able to do it. Maybe year after next.

 

[unclewilly]

Can't wait to see it.
Just out of curiosity, With all the new features of vp9 such as higher res textures and transparency, what would be the point of backwards compatibility. Vp8 plays the vp8 tables just fine. They will not take advantage of any of the new features. And because of a lot of the added physics in vp9 would all need to be modded to play correctly anyway wouldn't they?

Maybe i'm wrong on this, i don't know, i know the gravity and friction and what not made a lot of the vp8 to vp9 mods i did require a lot of changes.

Anyway......

All the best of luck with your developement, can't wait to see how it turns out

uw

 

[Shockman]

What would be the advantage of backward compatibility? Troubling question coming from a fan on any level. Thousands of tables. No more ball through the flipper, able to import higher res graphics. The changes to default settings changed back.
This will be made possible by putting all the new function and the old function back on the same scale as VP8, because the backwards compatible version is basically going to be a update to VP8 (using VP9 as a base) that will have all the features of VP9. The new VP8 is going to be VP9 set up to match the settings scale that was used in VP8. It will be for playing VP8 tables and building new tables with those settings.

The VP9 version is going to be for playing VP9 tables and building using those settings. It will have support for both cabinet and desktop builds, but at the first sigh of trouble it's going to shift to desktop only support and cabinet support is going to be gone.

Lastly I will work on a version that's sole purpose is cabinets. This one of course will have the new flipper model.

But for the time being I am going to do nothing but fix a bug in visual feedback for nudging, and take advantage of that opportunity to add some things I have thought about for a long time, and to dress VP up a bit, and then study the code learn it, and work on it.

So if you do not understand yet. There is a very real possibility of three versions. A backward compatible version. A desktop version, and lastly and of course least a cabinet version (VPF has that), though the first release will be a dual platform version without the backward compatibility settings. It will be the one that fixes the bug with visual feedback for nudging, and starts the makeover of the default table.

 

[faralos]

a nice patch for the next vp9 would be when we copy objects that the name stays with that object! the nudging too like you mentioned...maybe a handbook explaining all the functions of vp (things like flipbook animation and em reels which are never mentioned)

 

[Itchigo]

Wow, that's a lot to do! I'm all for backwards compatibility even though I have both. It all sounds good to me, good luck.

 

[Shockman]

a nice patch for the next vp9 would be when we copy objects that the name stays with that object! the nudging too like you mentioned...maybe a handbook explaining all the functions of vp (things like flipbook animation and em reels which are never mentioned)

The new version of VP (9.09) has that. I will have only VP8.1 and VP9.0.7 to work from though.

 

[Wizards_Hat]

...maybe a handbook explaining all the functions of vp (things like flipbook animation and em reels which are never mentioned)

Erm...a bit like http://www.pinballnirvana.com/UpDownload-req-getit-lid-1945.html (Flipbook animation - page 17; EM Reels - page 27).

Regards,
Dan.

 

[tiltjlp]

a nice patch for the next vp9 would be when we copy objects that the name stays with that object! the nudging too like you mentioned...maybe a handbook explaining all the functions of vp (things like flipbook animation and em reels which are never mentioned)

As for learning about EM Reels, you can check out our our Tutorials and Support Files section, which has both Bendigo Reels demo and Black's EM Reel Tutorial , plus demos and tutorials on loads of other VP features.

http://www.pinballnirvana.com/index...wsdownload&sid=6&min=0&orderby=titleA&show=20

 

[faralos]

ok I got both animated objects and animated drop wall demos, hopefully I can learn from both of these! I did use basic drop walls for the plunger area in the Medieval pin, but that was real crude and it showed! so I guess more in a row like that?

 

[Shockman]

Wow, that's a lot to do! I'm all for backwards compatibility even though I have both. It all sounds good to me, good luck.

Actually, I never care much for backward compatibility. I would prefer that any program advances enough where no one would.

Backward compatibility is something to out grow though, not turn off.

I might not be able to do this. I might be in over my head. But there is nothing wrong with trying. VP devs at VPF are saying they have no agenda towards making VP's cabinet building features get in the way of general use. But they are using arguments that make no sense to support that. They are rejecting not just ideas, but solutions that would help desktop users, because there is nothing in it for cabinet use. Not having visual Feedback in VP anymore is a bug, or it is sabotage, but it is not a feature, and it is pointless to argue that taking it out was the fix. It is going to be put back if that is the only improvement I am able to manage.

 

[Shockman]

One error stops the make. It is the dx sdk

I have tried about 30 links, many that were given at the source forge site to DX7 SDK and they are so far all dead links.

If anyone has an old book about programming, that came with it on disk, around the time DX7 was actually the target environment, knows of a site it still exists, had a copy, etc then please let me know.

 

[sleepy]

NOTE: I cannot verify whether these files are clean, so be aware.

The filename for DX7 SDK appears to be dx7sdk-700.1.exe
The filename for DX7a SDK appears to be dx7adxf.exe

dx7sdk-700.1.exe appears to be available in various FTP archives, though I cannot verify their existence because my low budget ISP blocks FTP access.
dx7sdk-700.1.exe - Google Search


This page appears to have dx7adxf.exe (DX7a)

http://www.nastyprisms.com/temp/

And this page appears to have the DX7.chm help file (directx7.chm).
If you get the password pop-up, just click Cancel:

http://haje.kaist.ac.kr/~oedalpha/tips/

 

[faralos]

my version of vp9.09 does not copy the object name at all. I must still rename all copies made from one table to another. sigh, some day...

 

[unclewilly]

my version of vp9.09 does not copy the object name at all. I must still rename all copies made from one table to another. sigh, some day...

you copy with ctrl c then go to the edit menu and use the selection paste preserving names.

I see this is about to turn into a cabinet conspiracy thread, I'm no longer interested.

Please begin the ranting

 

[sleepy]

This article describing a Wrapper for DX libraries might be of interest:

DXSmith is a wrapper around Microsoft's DirectX graphic libraries. The current version wraps the Direct Draw 2D graphics, I/O, sound, and music for DX7. No 3D functions are wrapped or used.

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/directx/dxsmith.aspx

 

[Shockman]

It's not. It's just that if there is anything that is going to make desktop usage harder in the least I would break cabinet use in a heartbeat. Cabinets have 9.09 to use. this is a version that is based on 9.07 and it is created to restore lost desktop function. It is also going to test a new default table, but as I said. the only reason for this is for me to learn the Windows Environment for C++ development, and to use that knowledge to fix visual feedback in VP.

Here is the default table I have in my source code. It is a drastic change just for testing, and is a very dirty hodgepodge of various elements.

It has nudging 120, and 240 instead of 90 and 270, a shiny ball, a better plunger, startshake, what I think is a better starting layout.

This should be the default table, unless it overflows a buffer for the script, or fails for some other reason.

But yes, you are not going to find anything held back for the sake of cabinets here. I told you you had no business here UW. VFP has what you are looking for.

 

[Shockman]

I think a wrapper is going to be what I need. The doc. suggests that this is coming from environmental variables, and I certainly don't have dx7 there and never will.

 

[unclewilly]

What do you mean I have no busIness here. Is this your forum. I have been a member at this forum almost as long as you. So don't tell me where I have business to be.
I make desktop as well as cabinet tables and I do have tables on this site.
So unless you have some sort of authority over this site, don't assume you can tell me when and where I can post.

Because you feel the need to say this I will continue to post in this thread weather it's constructive or not.

I guess I should listen to you because you feel I should show you some respect for all you past vp contributions. Well respect is earned and no matter what you contributed. You are very arrogant, hence you have earned no respect from me.

So I appreciate you putting me in my place oh great mighty shockman, I'll only post at vpf because that is my place.
Or I will pollute you're thread with what ever I see fit.

This is just as much my place as it is yours

 

[Shockman]

my version of vp9.09 does not copy the object name at all. I must still rename all copies made from one table to another. sigh, some day...

I told them that appending would make sense. I guess I should have said that not would not make sense, but they should have came to that conclusion. At either rate I believe the only reason it does not have it is because I suggested it does. You can copy one set of elements with unique names, but then you are back where you were. The object is to get a logical naming convention to a paste, so you would know that the second set is appended with (1) and script any number of groups without even looking to see what they are named, because they are all named the same other than the predicable and logical append.

But yes, as UW said, it is there, so get what you can out of it.

 

[Shockman]

What do you mean I have no busIness here. Is this your forum. I have been a member at this forum almost as long as you. So don't tell me where I have business to be.
I make desktop as well as cabinet tables and I do have tables on this site.
So unless you have some sort of authority over this site, don't assume you can tell me when and where I can post.

Because you feel the need to say this I will continue to post in this thread weather it's constructive or not.

I guess I should listen to you because you feel I should show you some respect for all you past vp contributions. Well respect is earned and no matter what you contributed. You are very arrogant, hence you have earned no respect from me.

So I appreciate you putting me in my place oh great mighty shockman, I'll only post at vpf because that is my place.
Or I will pollute you're thread with what ever I see fit.

This is just as much my place as it is yours

In this thread UW. This build of VP is not for you. You are right. I could start up in a cabinet rant at any moment. I could break cabinet use in my version and laugh about it. I can call you the asshole you are and get away with it. What I meant to say is you don't want to be in this thread, not the site. You are as welcome here as anyone is.

 

[unclewilly]

Any vp development is of interest to me. And since you want to lower yourself to the level of a child and start throwing around profanity, so be it. as they say walks like a duck talks like a duck, must be a duck.
Hence this thread is for me and I will continue to post in it reguardless of the childish remarks you want to make.
Please let the forum see how much of a child you really are.
Tell your mom I said hi, you do live with your mom don't you.
Talk to you soon
Love unclewilly =)

 

[rascal]

I use the dxsdk_feb2007.exe to compile VP, but I see there is a slightly newer one (dxsdk_nov2007.exe) here.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FamilyID=529f03be-1339-48c4-bd5a-8506e5acf571

Get it from mirosoft in any case.
Here is the dxsdk_feb2007.exe too.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...8C-24AA-4E0A-BF91-5FEC24C8C7BF&displaylang=en

I know that you are not too thrilled with me either Shockman, but this DXSDK does work. I have compiled the VP source with it.

 

[Shockman]

Thank you rascal

I have been downloading dx7adxf.exe for the last 2 1/2 hours and it's 122mb on a slow server. It has just under an hour left.

It that does not work, I will download the one you are pointing to that is over 400 mb and has a estimated time of 19 hours to download form there.

I have nothing against you rascal. Not anything serious anyway. I just think we should have the right to snap at each sometimes without it me being banned every time. Not that I think you should ever be banned for anything you ever said either.

And I certainly don't think I am owed, as people say they think I feel I do. It's just that I should just get some credit for my contributions that are "PacDude's ball through the flipper workaround", "JP's transparent ramps", etc. etc. Setting the record straight is not arrogance. And I think if people were more independently thinking they would not jump on a wagon that is all about something like not having visual feedback being actually a good and correct thing for VP.

Thanks again.

 

[Shockman]

Any vp development is of interest to me. And since you want to lower yourself to the level of a child and start throwing around profanity, so be it. as they say walks like a duck talks like a duck, must be a duck.
Hence this thread is for me and I will continue to post in it reguardless of the childish remarks you want to make.
Please let the forum see how much of a child you really are.
Tell your mom I said hi, you do live with your mom don't you.
Talk to you soon
Love unclewilly =)

It's actually an extended visit, but yes, you are right. I am living with my mother here in Alabama now, and I am enjoying it. I love her and we have had a great time together. I went years without even getting to see her more than once a year.

 

[Shockman]

I have decided to download the one you suggested just to be sure I install one that will work. It should take less than an hour, I was looking at the dial-up time estimate.
Thank you.