Help A question on flipper size

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I came across a small (pun intended) problem doing Sorcerer. The flipper from fizx looked a little small in height compared to the flyer and other images I have. It was rather noticeable on the top flipper (or I should say wasn't noticeable). Not a problem, just raised the height. The williams fizx flipper looks correct as a wpc flipper, it's just a shade under 24 mm in height but i was wondering as the flippers from sorcerer were noticeably higher.

The problem is I can not find the height info on the older style flippers, the only height was listed at 24 mm yet every image I have clearly showed the height was larger. The fp stock flipper, which corresponds to the older version of williams flippers was a bit taller, and I don't think Lio would have made that mistake.

The base of the flipper is a 15mm diameter circle, sloping down to a 5mm diameter circle at the tip. Overall length is 71mm, so the distance between centers of the circles should be 61mm. The flipper is 24mm height. A standard flipper rubber is 4mm thick when stretched around the flipper paddle. That is a wpc flipper size according to the internet, but does anyone here know what the actual height of the earlier version williams flippers were? Is there a fizx version of those flippers in case it bugs me too much? It's not of any importance, was just getting real curious because I was going a little mad trying to figure it out till I finally thought of the height difference...

(In case you were wondering, the return lane top transparent plastics were close to the same height as the top of the flippers, and lower that the plastic height. I'm looking into this to make sure it's correct in how I am doing it)
 
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According to Marco, the same flipper-bat is used in a The Getaway and White water, I can check tomorrow for the measurements.
But I dare say the photo is misleading


Also, the game in the flyer might have been made from spares lying around, A few years before Sorcerer, Williams had used a two-piece flipper bat
 
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Yeah that is the right flipper for the earlier williams and matches the game and other sys9. I have the 3d print file but the height info isn't showing up in my viewer so was just wondering. By eye looks to be 28mm for the older era pre-wpc, and going through all my images for sorcerer and other sys9 tables that what is looking correct.

Was curious as I never knew the later wpc flippers were smaller in height to the previous flippers. (or ever noticed anyway) Does anyone care if I use the fizx flippers instead of the proper era flippers? I've already readjusted heights and different posts to fit anyway.
 
Yeah that is the right flipper for the earlier williams and matches the game and other sys9. I have the 3d print file but the height info isn't showing up in my viewer so was just wondering. By eye looks to be 28mm for the older era pre-wpc, and going through all my images for sorcerer and other sys9 tables that what is looking correct.

Was curious as I never knew the later wpc flippers were smaller in height to the previous flippers. (or ever noticed anyway) Does anyone care if I use the fizx flippers instead of the proper era flippers? I've already readjusted heights and different posts to fit anyway.

I have never read anything about special flippers on the FizX template. I never looked for special flippers on it until just now. I noticed there is an assortment of different flippers in the file named "All In One Example Table - FizX, FLEEP, PUP SSF, DOF (3.30.03).fpt". The one that is used on the demo table is named "Flipper-T1-Williams" in the model manager. It is smaller than the FP T1. I don't know if it is the one you want or not but you might have a look. None of the FizX guides say anything about the different models of flippers. JLou was good at creating models so maybe he was testing them somehow.
 
Already explained george. The fizx flippers are the wpc flippers used by williams 1989 to 1999 (or there about) while sorcerer used the older style flippers that were earlier. I just wanted to confirm the height of those, which I believe to be 28mm. I'm using the wpc type, which means I have to raise them and move the top flipper a couple mm so they become visible in the various camera views, and I have to now readjust the heights of the return lanes and substitute new posts with the correct height to match the wpc flippers. I just need to make double sure of the heights needed if someone knows as I am ready to put the plastics in now. I will discuss this further if need be in a video down the line.
 
Already explained george. The fizx flippers are the wpc flippers used by williams 1989 to 1999 (or there about) while sorcerer used the older style flippers that were earlier. I just wanted to confirm the height of those, which I believe to be 28mm. I'm using the wpc type, which means I have to raise them and move the top flipper a couple mm so they become visible in the various camera views, and I have to now readjust the heights of the return lanes and substitute new posts with the correct height to match the wpc flippers. I just need to make double sure of the heights needed if someone knows as I am ready to put the plastics in now. I will discuss this further if need be in a video down the line.
There are 4 other flippers models in the template that are not from the FP library.
 
I do not know if these flippers are original or have been replaced over the years

Both my Pharaoh and CFTBL flippers are 24mm high, add a little for the bushing (so they do not drag on the playfield)
 
Okay. Is the fp model wrong then? It's clearly higher, with a surface as a measure it showed 28mm, and those are the system era flippers. I do know what you are saying though, several images of sorcerer has notable differences with the brackets and other things. There is no custom parts being reproduced, or even have files like 3d printed files available, and no actual technical info either like dimensions. So the owners just found a different part from some other machine and used that.

I have my wpc flippers in place already, already adjusted so it doesn't look weird, so I will just keep them that way. I have to have a "modded" version to get around the various glitches FP will throw at me anyway, so no big deal when you think about it. This was just for reference down the road for other tables.
 
I am not saying anything is wrong. Future pinball has been around 15 (?) years now, it works.
I can give you all the rea-world dimentions you want from games that I am working on. But you have years of experience with FP and it all works

I looked at the flyer for Sorcerer, the rubber looks high, but on the flyer for Comet, the rubber looks right
 
Amazing how time flies...

I'm pretty sure it's 28 mm in sorcerer, and it's more than likely the same plastic flipper as Comet and other system 9 games. Plastic injection for new parts can be quite expensive so they would use as much as possible off the shelf parts or reuse parts or design parts already done for other games. (Pretty sure the ramp is the same as Firepower2, same designer as well) It's sometimes hard to see exactly from images due to shooting angle, and table owners sometimes modded their machines. For example, I have several images of sorcerer with lightning flippers, which I know was not in the original.
As said before, I decided to use the fizx flippers because they are the model made for it and plays better, and I did find the image that shows the original flippers as a reverse layout. The return lanes look lower to me, so I had to adjust the heights in my build to match the fizx flipper size. That image i'm attaching as a thumbnail. The second is the top flipper, and you can see how tall it was in relation to the top of the plastic. The fizx flipper you can't even see in quite a few camera views, so I had to raise it 7 mm in height and then move it a couple mms forward so it became visible in all camera views.

I don't think people will care that I am using the wrong flipper type anyway. But you never know with some people. :)
 

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20 years the 22 october

Time flies.

Santa Claus What GIF by Freeform
 
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