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VP8 Flipperless Recreation Basketball Pinball released

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Although I don't know which company made Basketball Pinball Game, I like the flashy, over the top colorful graphics used in this pin toy. While it is rather common as pin toys go, there isn't much imagination or difference in most layouts for such games.

While all the "hoop terms are used, it does seem odd that the highest point cup wasn't used for the illustration of a perfect basket. With the NCAA tournament just over and the NBA's season heating up though their playoff, I dedicate this hoops game to all of us who suffer every missed layup, every foul shot that rims out, and each mounting loss, when we have to face up to the fact that once again, this isn't our Season Of Glory.

As usual, I have tweaked the gameplay settings so that you'll score best by nudging. Simply let the ball bouce where it will, your score will suffer, and you'll that game winner at the buzzer. You can dribble over and get your copy of Basketball Pinball half way down this page: http://www.pinballnirvana.com/index.php?name=UpDownload&req=viewsdownload&sid=10

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Shockman

appropriate at this time
Looks fun, but it's hard to keep up with you, actually, it impossible.

I Like that you do this, very much. I'm happy that you enjoy it, thankful that you share, and honored to be a fellow.

There is nothing wrong with the way you build tables.
There is nothing wrong with the way anybody builds a table, why, how, but enough about Ron.

How does it work for real? You say you tweak it, and it shows. As a challenge they work, as a replica of a toy, tabletop or cabinet bagatelle, I don't think they work right. You can call me on that point though, I can't back it up. I have played a few, but you have too. So it's a matter of,. You know.

I think that you play yours laying almost flat, while I play mine standing up. Still 2 or 3 or what ever is too low for this I think. you have gates where if there was really a gate you would be able to see it in the picture you used. These gates and the rebounders and the nails too are way too bouncy I think.

Somethings VP just can't do. But you might be surprised at what it can do.

Somethings I'm probably anal about, but I think you would like to know about those things, if not The End. Thank you very much. I have liked every one that I downloaded, though I only downloaded the ones that I thought I might like.

Not much pre-rendering going on with these little things is there. I have as many know, a old but well build system, but it's just a 1gig P3.
I can play a 10 ball game slick as snot with these babies.

You can show the ball behind the nails without using graphics.
You can get rid if the solid rectangle that the table is on.
You can hide the VP plunger and animate the graphic one.
You don't have to destroy balls, well not every ball.
You can let more than one ball score, and even be in a pocket that is big enough together.
You could show the table at a angle and not have to see the front wall.
Flipperless needs a high resolution plunger, not so you could make every shot, but so you could miss some too.

You can do these things or not. If you did, would it matter, would people notice or appreciate it. And what if you did not, it would not make you a no talent hack. Anyone that called you that would read from me, I tell you.
 

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tiltjlp

PN co-founder
Shockman said:
Looks fun, but it's hard to keep up with you, actually, it impossible.

I Like that you do this, very much. I'm happy that you enjoy it, thankful that you share, and honored to be a fellow.

There is nothing wrong with the way you build tables.
There is nothing wrong with the way anybody builds a table, why, how, but enough about Ron.

How does it work for real? You say you tweak it, and it shows. As a challenge they work, as a replica of a toy, tabletop or cabinet bagatelle, I don't think they work right. You can call me on that point though, I can't back it up. I have played a few, but you have too. So it's a matter of,. You know.

I think that you play yours laying almost flat, while I play mine standing up. Still 2 or 3 or what ever is too low for this I think. you have gates where if there was really a gate you would be able to see it in the picture you used. These gates and the rebounders and the nails too are way too bouncy I think.

Somethings VP just can't do. But you might be surprised at what it can do.

Somethings I'm probably anal about, but I think you would like to know about those things, if not The End. Thank you very much. I have liked every one that I downloaded, though I only downloaded the ones that I thought I might like.

Not much pre-rendering going on with these little things is there. I have as many know, a old but well build system, but it's just a 1gig P3.
I can play a 10 ball game slick as snot with these babies.

You can show the ball behind the nails without using graphics.
You can get rid if the solid rectangle that the table is on.
You can hide the VP plunger and animate the graphic one.
You don't have to destroy balls, well not every ball.
You can let more than one ball score, and even be in a pocket that is big enough together.
You could show the table at a angle and not have to see the front wall.
Flipperless needs a high resolution plunger, not so you could make every shot, but so you could miss some too.

You can do these things or not. If you did, would it matter, would people notice or appreciate it. And what if you did not, it would not make you a no talent hack. Anyone that called you that would read from me, I tell you.

Thanks for your feedback Phil. I'll try to answer at least some of your points, but first, since you brought up Ron, let's get that over with first. He has the right to do whatever he wishes, but if he releases his tables, that gives me and everyone else the right to voice our opinions. And that's all I'm doing. I don't feel pinball should be used to preach about religion or social reform. I also don't see much sense in releasing a table that is nothing more than a graphic switch. I even released a table with 15 interchangable playfields, since they all used the exact same layout.

Pin toys are very basic, as anyone who has played any will know. So I not only provide automatic scoring, I also include some basic sounds, and even enhanced nudging, none of which are in the hand-held version. On some of the games, when possible, I add more scoring or features, to make the game more fun to play.

There is zero rendering done, since I have zero graphic know-how or ability. I don't leave balls in pockets, because there are a lot of people who have computers that can not handle 10 active balls at one time. Also, none of my more recent table have the outer wall, what you call the rectangle the table is on. Instead, I use invisible walls to contain the ball.

As for the angle the table is displayed, if you don't care for it, just change it in the editor. I started using that viewing angle when Bob and a few other folks mentioned that the playfield detail wasn't readable with a more relaxed view. As for walls and such things being too bouncy, in many cases they are bouncier than the real game, and bouncier than I like, but without that bounciness, the ball will usually always end up in the same two or three scoring pockets every time. Nudging is a much bigger influence in my pin toys than a real pin toy, which in reality aren't all that much fun.

And yes, I could hide the plunger, but the VP plunger doesn't look that much different from an actual plastic plunger used in a pin toy. As for the nails/pins, I have always had them invisible, but I'll take a look at how they might look on at least some tables. It might sound like I'm explaining away everything, but I'm not, I'm explaining why I do things a certain way. But I'm always open to trying new approaches, and will look at some of your comments and suggestions, and will use the ones that seem better to me than the way I'm doing things now.

Would anyone notice? Well, at least you and I would. And while I might not be a no-talent hack, I probably am a limited-talent hack. Thanks for you suggestions and observations, I really do appreciate them, and the time you took to offer them. And no, I won't simply ignore what you've said.
 

Shockman

appropriate at this time
Back to Ron. You called him a no talent hack. That was not feedback, though you are right that you did have a right to say it.

You missed just a couple of points.

The rectangle I mention is from the image, not any VP walls. These things always? have a curved top. You have never used a .bmp, or .jpeg with a curved top. they have a square top and what is shown above the toys curved top is neither toy, nor background, and it is never transparent, it shows as a solid color. look at the background above the toy.

Another is the nails. This is harder to explain. The nail walls, the actual walls that deflect the ball is transparent. One wall is added to each nail (VP wall you have) but it has no graphic applied to it, and you can not see it. It's just a trick to make the ball look like it is behind the playfield graphic. If the ball ins infront of the nail, you will not see the nail. If it's behind the nail you will see the nail. I don't know, Maybe it takes better vision than you have but it works perfectly. Just locks the table to the angle they are applied to. Not a problem, because I apply them at the angle I like. That angle is dictated by the camera angle when the photo was taken. But visible VP walls, texture mapped or not, would look better than the ball showing up in front of the nail when it is not IMO.
The pic I posted is a mod that is almost done. I worked on it two nites while posting here too. The plunger needs rebuilt, and the reset routine (falling nails) need to be done. and I have to move the nail image masks after the change of angle. You could set a variable to the number of balls a pc could handle, but I think most is better than mine these days. If you don't like this method, could I ask that at least you give the kickers a delay between the time the ball hit them and they are destroyed?

I would not suggest my mod as a release to replace or co-exist with yours. It's probably too realistic. Less sounds, no fanfair, steeper, harder, no display, no messages about ebay, etc. Probably less fun.

I haven't got much else done with the catcher because I debugged the bowlers scoring routing after the conversion to ten visable frames. I got all the squaring, or did that need that, and redraw done, the catcher is no longer part of the graphic.The catcher part is a solid color so I might get it to work well without a texture map.

I'm pretty pissed at you right now, but you have given me no reason to believe that it is permanent.
 

tiltjlp

PN co-founder
I don't know why you want to keep discussing Ron, but IMNSHO, he is a no talent hack, and I think the fact that he reuses tables with only switching graphics is a good indicator of that. He also gets upset at feedback that isn't 100% flattering, which is a sure sign of a lack of talent as well as a lack of knowledge of the VP Editor. Every other author, to some degree, has learned to use the VP Editor, as well as script to some degree, so until Ron does so, I see him as a hack with no talent who releases cookie cutter tables.

Now I understand what you mean by the rectangle. I pretty much have to use the images I find, as I find them. I have no idea how to use Paint Shop Pro, other than to make the image brighter and sometimes a bit sharper. As far as I know, the cropping tool I use only works on straight lines, so I couldn't cut that part out of the picture if I wanted to, and yes, if I could I would.

As for the nails. sometimes I do make my walls/nails visible, but if the image has nails showing already, I don't see the sense in making mine visible too. At least some of the things you have mentioned are detailed work which I'm simply not able to do. As for the catcher, there's no rush at all on that. As for you being upset at me, I hope it doesn't last, I'm surely not worth that much bother. And as I've said before, some of your suggestions may well influence my work. I always try to make every table as good if not better than the one before it, and I do listen to any bit of feedback I get. Thanks again for your interest in my tables and for all you suggestions and help.
 
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