did drought and pandemics wipe out ancient civilizations

[pinhead1]

We are all more than aware of the global climate changes with heat, drought and pandemics.
The planet has been going through cycles forever.
There has been countless pandemics and drought with desease.
Have you been keeping up with theories to what has happened with distant past ancient civilizations?
The new theories is that the ancient civilizations like the Mayas, Romans, and every other civilization that seemed to be abandoned or disappeared were victim to the same problems we have had including war, drought and pandemics. Same old.
There seems to be no explanation or little evidence why ancient civilizations abandoned their cities and disappeared. Machu Picchu and the Mayans are just a few examples that disappeared.
There has been countless others.
Maybe war, pandemics and/or drought wiped them out forcing them to abandon their cities where they lived for centuries maybe thousands of years and migrate to find somewhere else where they could find enough water, to live and grow food.
Way back then droughts and pandemics could have easily wiped a civilization because there was no medicine and science to solve food problems from drought.

 

[pinhead1]

no thoughts or other theories??
droughts and pandemics have always been with us.
i should have posted this in my original post.
i found it on a google search.
what we need is for somebody to come back and tell us what really happened.
all we have to go on is what historians are telling us.
read the "people also asked" links.
history is telling us there was a drought around the time of the Mayans.

Google Search

www.google.com

"A major drought occurred about the time the Maya began to disappear. And at the time of their collapse, the Maya had cut down most of the trees across large swaths of the land to clear fields for growing corn to feed their burgeoning population. They also cut trees for firewood and for making building materials.Oct 6, 2009"...................

here's is something on Easter island if interested.

what happened to easter island - Google Search

 

[xenonph]

It was them damned aliens that took them all away to work as slaves on their home world.
Proof?
Recent UFO whistleblower explains that when they recovered UFO's, there were pilots of the UFO's that were also found, and they had non human biologics. (NOT HUMAN.)

 

[pinhead1]

yeah, i have heard plenty of alien theories like that.
plenty of theories like that floatin' around.
the theory is we are experiments or maybe slaves to mine the world for gold, silver and precious metals.
then you have the rapi-nui on easter island and how did they move the huge statues.
drawings on cave walls of something that looks like an astronaut in a suit.
no shortage of the alien theories.
they have been here a long time.

Google Search

www.google.com

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ancient+aliens+and+the+mayans

 

[phéromones]

yes like in the movie Jupiter ascending where humans are harvested by other more technologically advanced humans. But by the way... isn't what some humans are doing these days? pretending to be gods...

 

[StevOz]

Put the tin foil hats down, you all seem to not understand the size of the Universe and just how invisible we are...

Extent of human radio broadcasts

Humans have been broadcasting radio waves into deep space for about a hundred years now, since the days of Marconi. That, of course, means there is an…

www.planetary.org

Mind-Boggling Image Shows How Far Into Space Humanity's Voice Has Actually Reached

It's the big mystery: Intelligent life should be out there in the Universe, so why haven't we found any evidence for it? This question is called the Fermi paradox, and there are a few potential answers.

www.sciencealert.com

 

[xenonph]

Wow the blue dot is how far the radio waves have traveled so far!!
Picture from your link.

 

[pinhead1]

It was them damned aliens that took them all away to work as slaves on their home world.
Proof?
Recent UFO whistleblower explains that when they recovered UFO's, there were pilots of the UFO's that were also found, and they had non human biologics. (NOT HUMAN.)

>>It was them damned aliens that took them all away to work as slaves on their home world.>>>>
yeah, maybe.
nobody has come back to tell us.
not saying it doesn't exist.
there is evidence all around us.
i'm older and never seen anything that could be a UFO or alien.
i have not even witnessed paranormal.
have you?

 

[xenonph]

>>It was them damned aliens that took them all away to work as slaves on their home world.>>>>
yeah, maybe.
nobody has come back to tell us.
not saying it doesn't exist.
there is evidence all around us.

If you watch the movie Stargate, you will see a great example of what I said.

i'm older and never seen anything that could be a UFO or alien.
i have not even witnessed paranormal.
have you?

If you are talking about paranormal as in ghosts, or believing in God and stuff like that, then yes I have witnessed the paranormal.

When I was younger, my family went to church, (Baptist) on an indian reservation (Pala Indian Reservation down by San Diego).
Brother Randy was the preacher, and a friend of the family. My mom and step dad got married in his church on the reservation.
Lake Elsinore had flooded that year, and my step dad had went fishing and filled our bathtub up with catfish.
(So many we had to rent a frozen storage locker.)
We brought the catfish and had like a pot luck dinner at the church, as we had plenty to feed everyone.

Well during the service that night, Brother Randy asked my mom to come up front, that he wanted to say a prayer for her.
So she went up front, and he laid hands on her, and prayed in tongues.
When he finished the prayer, my mom returned to her seat.
He told everyone there, that he just had a vision of a dark presence standing behind my mom, and that was why he said the prayer for her.
Well my mom started saying something was wrong, and her facial expression totally changed.
The preacher asked if she was ok, but she never answered.
So the preacher walked down the aisle to come to her, and she started screaming "Get away from me!" over and over in a weird voice that wasn't hers!!
Her face was contorted so much that she looked like a different person.
The preacher ran to her and laid his hands on her and started praying in tongues.
2 other preachers were there, and they also ran over to her and laid there hands on her, and prayed in tongues.
This was the scariest event of my whole life, and all true.
Us kids did not want to go home with mommy that night.

I can also tell you why I believe in God.
When I was younger, my family was poor.
We didn't have much food, and it was a struggle to keep everyone fed.
Well my mom told us, that if we all pray together, God would hear our prayer.
So we all gathered hands and started praying. We were really hungry!
Well as we are praying for food, we hear a loud thump at the back of the trailer.
We went out back to see what it could be, and lo and behold, there are 7 quail laying on the ground.
They flew into the side of our trailer all at once, and broke their necks.
We ate good that night!
That was all the proof I needed to know that God does exist.

These are my personal views on the subject.
I hope I didn't offend anyone, as that was not my intention.

 

[pinhead1]

Xeno#9....

>>It was them damned aliens that took them all away to work as slaves on their home world.>>>>
yeah, maybe.
nobody has come back to tell us.
not saying it doesn't exist.
there is evidence all around us.

If you watch the movie Stargate, you will see a great example of what I said.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
pinhead1.....i'm not following.
i did a search on google and imdb.com
there are 6 SG movies..... all hollywood fictiion.
i'm kind of skeptical on stuff like this.
if someone came back to tell us what really happened i might believe that.
i'm kind of slow believing everything historians tell us.
nobody really knows.
we were not there IRL
i'm referring to all historical events including what happened to the Mayans.
it might be true they were taken by the aliens.
maybe drought and pandemic wiped them out.
the black death of the midages in 1300's killed 75million in Europe.

Google Search

www.google.com

keeping records and recordings were not good back then.
columbus and others went into history because they kept logs and records.
the Vikings and many others were probably here first long before columbus.
the vikings and countless otheres didn't record anything.
we have nothing from them.
i almost forgot the indians.
they were here first.
they lived here for many thousands of years but didn't keep records.
maybe the indians saw UFOs and aliens many thousands of yrs ago.
we don't know.
all we have from that far back is drawings on cave walls of what looks like something like aliens in an astronaut suit.
when we go that far back in time we don't know what really happened to the Mayans or anything else.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

I gotta hand it to you, pinhead1, you've got some spicy curiosity going on!

The new theories is that the ancient civilizations like the Mayas, Romans, and every other civilization that seemed to be abandoned or disappeared were victim to the same problems we have had including war, drought and pandemics. Same old.

Yeap, I'd agree. Altho these aren't so much "new theories" in the Romans' case. In fact, we know loads of specifics about their rise and fall. Details that stretch well over 2000yrs, as the Romans existed in one form or another.

There seems to be no explanation or little evidence why ancient civilizations abandoned their cities and disappeared. Machu Picchu and the Mayans are just a few examples that disappeared.

The Mayans are interesting in that AFAIK scholars are still debating the specifics of why their empire collapsed, but it does seem to be based on stuff like draught, pollution, over-exploitation of local resources and so forth.

I find the Anasazi (ancient Puebloans) quite interesting too, right here in the American SW. They didn't quite exist on the scale of the Mayans, but they did leave behind some impressive architectural and cultural relics, two of which I had the very good fortune to visit, Mesa Verde and Chaco Canyon. Mesa Verde is so amazing to me because it's a city built high on a cliff plateau (careful climbing up!), and Chaco Canyon is equally awe-inspiring because it's network of buildings constructed on exacting astronomical principles, in order to align with the heavens. Some of the windows in the buildings and the petroglyphs on the walls can even be used to measure the full circuit of the moon throughout the year.

Anyway, the Anasazi seem to have flourished for a couple hundred years due to bountiful rainfall, then died out when the rainfall patterns shifted. Note: I hate to keep bringing this up, but one of the problems with our spurring on global warming like we are is that it naturally tends to make things like rain and ocean currents shift over time, or sometimes pretty quickly & severely. This has big implications for lots of people, for example Europe, most of which exists above Canada's lower latitude line, but gets warmed by a regular ocean current. From what I understand, if that warm ocean current shifts or collapses, then Europe is kinda screwed.

Getting back to the quote, Machu Picchu's collapse is actually very easy to answer. It was a mountain outpost that had no reason to exist after the Spanish conquered the Incas. In other words, there was no manpower and no supplies coming from Cuzco, anymore. It was never a city, either, as seems to be a popular cultural idea. Btw, for all the wonder about the Incan Empire, it only lasted about a century. There were many smaller civilisations that lived in the region across hundreds of years, some of which made some super-cool pottery and gold, silver & turquoise art pieces.

Below are some images of Chaco Canyon, in which you can glimpse some of the exacting planning that went in to their construction.

beautiful chaco canyon - Google Search

 

[pinhead1]

Isaac>>>Yeap, I'd agree. Altho these aren't so much "new theories" in the Romans' case. In fact, we know loads of specifics about their rise and fall. Details that stretch well over 2000yrs, as the Romans existed in one form or another>>>>
it's only until the recent 20th century that the idea of ancient cities also fell victim to all the "same old" we have from corruption, inflation, plagues, pandemics, war etc....
Isaac>>>Getting back to the quote, Machu Picchu's collapse is actually very easy to answer. It was a mountain outpost that had no reason to exist after the Spanish conquered the Incas. In other words, there was no manpower and no supplies coming from Cuzco, anymore. It was never a city, either, as seems to be a>>>>
then why spend all the time and effort to bring the materials up a narrow mountain path to build then abandon it.
maybe they had help.
i don't see how it would be possible to build Macchu Picchu without technology.
some of those stones look pretty heavy.

Machu Picchu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

maybe they had help.
maybe it was built as a place of worship to the Gods from the sky.
to the ancient indians they were Gods.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

then why spend all the time and effort to bring the materials up a narrow mountain path to build then abandon it.
maybe they had help.

Checking just now, I'm embarrassed to say that I was unfamiliar with the latest theory. Half my DNA probably needs to be revoked. Anyway--

"Most recent archaeologists believe that Machu Picchu was constructed as an estate for the Inca emperor Pachacuti (1438–1472)." [link]

And again, the Incas didn't 'abandon' it. They got conquered. There was nobody relevant to use or maintain the structure, anymore.

i don't see how it would be possible to build Macchu Picchu without technology.
some of those stones look pretty heavy.

Machu Picchu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

maybe they had help.
maybe it was built as a place of worship to the Gods from the sky.
to the ancient indians they were Gods.

Well, they -did- use technology. They used the technology of the times.

That is the very magic of so many awesome works built by earlier peoples around the world. The fact that they used sheer manpower aided by the clever use of things like fulcrums, rollers, wet-sleds, levers and so forth to get the job done.

There are many encyclopedia entrees documenting how these tools were used, plus YT videos demonstrating the principles live. What are you waiting for, pinhead1?

 

[pinhead1]

isaac>>>And again, the Incas didn't 'abandon' it. They got conquered. There was nobody relevant to use or maintain the structure, anymore.<<<
we don't know that.
this is kind of the point i have been pushing.
we have no proof of anything.
only what historians are telling us.
they have been wrong.
isaac>>>>>Well, they -did- use technology. They used the technology of the times.
That is the very magic of so many awesome works built by earlier peoples around the world. The fact that they used sheer manpower aided by the clever use of things like fulcrums, rollers, wet-sleds, levers and so forth to get the job done.<<<<<
idk,,,,i guess it would be possible...sounds brutal maybe impossible with ancient tools mentioned above.
even so, the stones are super heavy making it very difficult for manual labor to use a sled or ancient technology to move and lift.
the cuts and fit are perfect or near perfect with a lot of the ancient structures.
idk, sounds like a lot of really super hard work if not impossible with ancient tools on top of a mountain on soft dirt and rocks..
idk if it is possible to drag a heavy rock over soft dirt and jagged rock with a super ancient sled.

anyway,,,here's what google had to say
the rocks came from local and chiseled......

Google Search

www.google.com

Isaac>>>>What are you waiting for, pinhead1?>>>>>not sure what u mean.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

isaac>>>And again, the Incas didn't 'abandon' it. They got conquered. There was nobody relevant to use or maintain the structure, anymore.<<<
we don't know that.
this is kind of the point i have been pushing.
we have no proof of anything.
only what historians are telling us.
they have been wrong.

I agree that we don't know anything for sure, which is in fact a major point of the scientific method.

History is the framing, interpretation and recounting of known facts over time, but it's supposed to be based firmly on known facts and the best available theory, which tends to come from the hard sciences through research and peer review.

If you're a historian just making up your version of events, then you're nothing but a propagandist, and I don't care what you have to say, other than maybe to dissect the nonsense you're trying to peddle.

- We DO know the Incas got conquered through a wealth of evidence across different disciplines.

- We DON'T know of any particular group that would have the means & motivation to maintain Machu Picchu, which is corroborated by it getting pretty quickly overgrown & falling in to ruin.

- As you discovered yourself, we DO have a highly likely source of local building material.

- We also DO know that Incan emperors tended to have major sources of manpower and technology available to them to build places like this at their whim.

IMO if you can't even offer a reasonable counterproposal to known facts & theory, then you really have nothing to say. Oh, right "aliens." Or hey-- how about the flying spaghetti monster?

Sure, it was the flying spaghetti monster that helped out their Inca friends by building Machu Picchu for them, so let's consider that the final word, right?

isaac>>>>>Well, they -did- use technology. They used the technology of the times.
That is the very magic of so many awesome works built by earlier peoples around the world. The fact that they used sheer manpower aided by the clever use of things like fulcrums, rollers, wet-sleds, levers and so forth to get the job done.<<<<<
idk,,,,i guess it would be possible...sounds brutal maybe impossible with ancient tools mentioned above.
even so, the stones are super heavy making it very difficult for manual labor to use a sled or ancient technology to move and lift.
the cuts and fit are perfect or near perfect with a lot of the ancient structures.
idk sounds like a lot of really super hard if not impossible with ancient tools.
anyway,,,here's what google had to say
the rocks came from local and chiseled......

Google Search

www.google.com

If you're not willing to learn and understand how ancient civilisations made use of certain key tools as mentioned above, then all you're really doing is flatulating in the wind IMO.

 

[pinhead1]

wow isaac, what was that.
i understand plenty.
we know nothing about ancient civilizations and history.
all we have is what historians are telling us.
we cant even send a manned flight beyond the moon.
just going to the moon and back is a real challenge.
we know nothing about deep space travel and goes on.
it took 10yrs for voyager to get to pluto.
we know less than zero about space travel and history.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

.

 

[pinhead1]

So, morons, jackasses, & idiots?
Okay..

what is that supposed to mean
explain it to me why the attitude.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

what is that supposed to mean
explain it to me why the attitude.

That clearly refers to *me*, since I seem to lack the ability to discuss things as a gentleman, these days.

I apologise to you, matey.

I'm having a hard time lately with my health, these days, but it's no excuse for rudeness or mean-spiritedness. I apologise again, @pinhead1. My bad, sir.

 

[pinhead1]

That clearly refers to *me*, since I seem to lack the ability to discuss things as a gentleman, these days.

I apologise to you, matey.

I'm having a hard time lately with my health, these days, but it's no excuse for rudeness or mean-spiritedness. I apologise again, @pinhead1. My bad, sir.

ok,
i knew something was goin' on because you seem to have a short fuse sometimes.
good luck with that.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

ok,
i knew something was goin' on because you seem to have a short fuse sometimes.
good luck with that.

Dude, I think I can say this without prejudice--

Facts & reality are what I typically trust. Why? Because that's the very beginning of the simplest trust we give to the most dedicated assholes - experts - scientists in the field via the "scientific method," all battling each other for such reasons of: 1) grants, 2) tenure, 3) reputation, 4) historicity, and 5) whatever else?

Nothing personal, matey, but one of the reasons I love talking to randos is because they help my realise things; help me realise my mistakes in thinking. You did nothing wrong, PinHead.

 

[pinhead1]

Dude, I think I can say this without prejudice--

Facts & reality are what I typically trust. Why? Because that's the very beginning of the simplest trust we give to the most dedicated assholes - experts - scientists in the field via the "scientific method," all battling each other for such reasons of: 1) grants, 2) tenure, 3) reputation, 4) historicity, and 5) whatever else?

Nothing personal, matey, but one of the reasons I love talking to randos is because they help my realise things; help me realise my mistakes in thinking. You did nothing wrong, PinHead.

ok.......

 

[pinhead1]

well, after taking some time to evaluate my car it is probably finished from a fire.
i guess i could fix it but decided to move on.
i drove it for 10yrs.
it's pretty old and parts might be a problem.

contrary to some who think that the ancient civilizations were taken by the aliens is a little hard to believe.
there is always a logical explanation.
i still think that climate change, drought and disease from pandemics did it.
another believable explanation is the spanish conquistadors came.
they brought disease like smallpox, measles, typhoid and the list goes on forever.
the ancient people were defenseless against disease.
they had no immunities that the invaders brought.
they had been living undisturbed forever then the invaders came and brought disease.
they were wiped out and maybe the ones that were left finally packed up and left therefore "abandoning" their city where they lived for forever.

read these...i think these links are more reasonable

Google Search

www.google.com

 

[pinhead1]

i was watching "Empire Games" the Aztecs on story TV.
if your interested it's on YT.
it explains what could have happened to the Aztecs and the Mayas collapse of their empire.
the program talks about how the Spanish conquerors brought disease like small pox and disease then possibly wiped them out.
the natives were defenseless.
watch it here on YT.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=empire+games+the+aztecs