Fire and Ice... online!

Isaac Sauvage

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Jurassic Park
can't believe the whole thing is online. probably not for long, but them's the brakes. :D

this thing had a whole style and approach to fantasy adventure that you don't see anymore. not a perfect movie, but it nailed a number of areas remarkably and uniquely well.

but... you be the judge:
Code:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF1i-26N9j0[/url]

(skip to 2:25 to get past the title sequence)
 
Added to Sleepy's "Midnight Cult Movies Online" thread as a playlist, so there's no searching required to watch the whole movie, though the funky breaks still appear between parts. Just pretend that the youtube breaks represent the end of a reel! I've included a short film at the end of Fire and Ice which displays the art of Frazetta and you can access this directly by using the mouse-over menu on the player. It is the last video at the end of the 8 parts.

This was an interesting experiment as an attempt to animate the style of painter and illustrator Frank Frazetta, but failed miserably at the box office. At the time many were disappointed that the feature used line animation instead of achieving the fully fleshed-out style of Frazetta's magnificent paintings. I think it was done too soon and could have been much more effective in recreating the artist in motion if it had been attempted with our newer computer technologies for control and simplification of complex shading and fill techniques characteristic of Frazetta. On the other hand folks, this film is all animated manually by hand.
 
At the time many were disappointed that the feature used line animation instead of achieving the fully fleshed-out style of Frazetta's magnificent paintings.
fully fleshed-out animation based on rotoscoping would have taken an eternity back in 1983. bakshi was barely able to get the film made as it was. better would have been for people to give up their preconceptions and admire the wonderful smoothness of the live-action as depicted in linear animation form. plus, frazetta's influences are still all over the place if you only care to look.


I think it was done too soon and could have been much more effective in recreating the artist in motion if it had been attempted with our newer computer technologies for control and simplification of complex shading and fill techniques characteristic of Frazetta. On the other hand folks, this film is all animated manually by hand.
this raises an interesting question- does the live-action footage still exist? if so, the film could be re-animated using the 'linklater' process as seen in "waking life" and "scanner darkly".

unfortunately, i don't think this film became quite enough of a cultural underdog in order to justify the expense to a studio. unlike "tron", for example, a somewhat similar film.
 
> fully fleshed-out animation based on rotoscoping would have taken an eternity back in 1983.

Oh, for sure. There is more of the Frazetta detail in the backgrounds, though that was not visible in the t.v. ads for the film at the time of the film's release due to the lossy analog processes then used in broadcasting. It would have been much more apparent by the Summer of 1984 with the immediate introduction of digital t.v. processing/detailing and video bandwidth expansion along with the advanced use of digital color averaging to create the NTSC color signal. Before digital processing took hold in 1984 I didn't even know there was wallpaper in the background of many t.v. shows. It, like the backgrounds in Fire and Ice, was not visible in the analog results.

The film might have done better if it had been released after these improvements allowing the detail to be seen in the ads, though then again, probably not. Heavy Metal (1981) also didn't do well in the theaters, so it was probably the theme or character of these movies simply didn't appeal to the mainstream.
 
yea, tron, too. and bladerunner. and brazil. and solaris.
all six films clearly ahead of their time, but probably a little too abstract and demanding on the sensibilities and comprehension-level of general audiences.

2001 and star wars did what these films did not, one aspect of which was to get people to emphatically identify with one or more main characters.

there are also theories that films like "jaws" and "star wars" ruined the potential of more eclectic films like these because those films ushered in the era of blockbuster thrill-ride movies and greatly increased the level of public expectations for what a film would deliver. i mean, this kind of problem was certainly in existence since the very first movie, it's just that the stakes got raised dramatically at a certain point, and more eclectic / artistic films have suffered in that wake.
 
btw arne, have you read much of the magazine, heavy metal? the stories and art are often wonderful, showcasing a lot of top talent in europe, translated into english. of course you never know exactly what you're going to get, and some issues are rather mediocre.

i have a small collection, have been able to find some old issues here and there, and now with the internet the number of issues posted online is growing by leaps and bounds. it's quite the treasure trove if you're a heavy metal (not the music) fan.

babes, babes, babes! :D
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q="heavy metal magazine"
 
I'm not convinced of the blockbuster theory because the first blockbuster that I know of was The Exorcist, though I think Bonnie and Clyde, Planet of the Apes (the original) and Butch Cassidy were also blockbusters, very popular in their time. Jaws is quoted as such because it was the first Summer blockbuster, or so they say. Prior to Jaws, the Summer months were allegedly dead, similar to t.v. in the Summer.

As for Tron, I think the kids chose to spend their money at the arcades playing the games instead. The games like Pac Man/Ms. Pac Man, Donkey Kong, and the arcade version of Tron were new and very exciting to play at that time, and Tron the Movie was "just a movie about it".

Like any other film, art films and cult films need to cut across to the public and relate with urgency and at the same time not be a substitute for desirable direct involvement, but when they do they are considered to be pop films. As intriguing as Blade Runner is, it did not have the immediacy as, say, "Alien", though both films are from Ridley Scott, or at least one and a half of them are....
On the other hand, most people don't realize the esoteric nature of a film such as "Total Recall" and its teasing implication on the matter of existence/perception of one's reality or the illusion of social dependencies perpetuated by one's self-appointed "Masters", which comes into play in the scene where Ah-nold determines by action the authenticity of "the authoritarian".


I've always been drawn to Heavy Metal, though haven't followed it too much due to my real life absurdities.
 
I'm not convinced of the blockbuster theory because the first blockbuster that I know of was The Exorcist, though I think Bonnie and Clyde, Planet of the Apes (the original) and Butch Cassidy were also blockbusters, very popular in their time. Jaws is quoted as such because it was the first Summer blockbuster, or so they say. Prior to Jaws, the Summer months were allegedly dead, similar to t.v. in the Summer.
well, it doesn't really matter what the particular movies were. only that there was some kind of change in the dynamic.

arguing from a different perspective, we know that hollywood and big business have always exploited and replicated whatever they can. and when star wars came along it conducted the kind of crossover marketing campaign that had never before been seen in film history. this meant tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars made in toy sales, fast food products, even things like linens and alarm clocks.

i mean, what were the chances that such a massively-successful formula was not going to be imitated somewhere by someone? probably close to zero, eh?

so yes, we can argue about how much of an effect such things had, but is there any doubt that something significant changed in 1977 or thereabouts?


As for Tron, I think the kids chose to spend their money at the arcades playing the games instead. The games like Pac Man/Ms. Pac Man, Donkey Kong, and the arcade version of Tron were new and very exciting to play at that time, and Tron the Movie was "just a movie about it".
part of this was probably due to disney releasing it. if you were a fan of regular disney movies then this would have looked like the oddball film to skip, not unlike "the black hole" with bruce dern. and if you -weren't- a fan of disney, then this would easily have looked like another schlocky piece of schlock, the kind of thing they've been producing ever since "the jungle book" or thereabouts.

with those kind of odds, who was going to go out of their way to see it? especially with the marketing campaign in place at the time which would beckon to you from the fronts of cereal boxes. i mean, WTF... ugh.


Like any other film, art films and cult films need to cut across to the public and relate with urgency and at the same time not be a substitute for desirable direct involvement, but when they do they are considered to be pop films. As intriguing as Blade Runner is, it did not have the immediacy as, say, "Alien", though both films are from Ridley Scott, or at least one and a half of them are....
well said.


On the other hand, most people don't realize the esoteric nature of a film such as "Total Recall" and its teasing implication on the matter of existence/perception of one's reality or the illusion of social dependencies perpetuated by one's self-appointed "Masters", which comes into play in the scene where Ah-nold determines by action the authenticity of "the authoritarian".
this is the standard challenge of turning any PKD story into a film- minimise the parts that challenge the psyche and add enough feel-good elements so that the audience can remain comfortable. no PKD tale is ever going to be told in movie form with all of its inherant challenges to sanity and civilisation. bladerunner, for example, was merely a nice compromise, cutting out the fascinating subplots of the mood organ, mercerism, androids completely taking over govt agencies, and man's desperate attachment to other lifeforms, even if they're artificial. WHILE still retaining just enough to be a provocative film. but you wouldn't know that unless you had read "do androids dream of electric sheep?"

total recall was a really fun and enjoyable movie IMO, more harmonius with it's original short story than bladerunner was with its source. i'm glad you enjoyed it and were able to appreciate some of PKD's questions about reality.
 
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