FizX Flipper won't move when in contact with ball

[FireDragon76]

I am working on FP's Humpty Dumpty (Gottlieb, 1947), trying to implement FizX specifically for the nice generated sounds. It seems to work better than default physics in terms of reducing arbitrary bounciness of the balls (which can cause the auto ball release to malfunction as the balls go over a trigger- something the real table did not have, it had a plunger to release a ball). The hit sound generator seems to be working. My only problem is the bottom right flipper seems to be having problems, it won't flip if a ball is touching it and sometimes a ball goes through it. Maybe somebody could have a look at it and fix it?

The original table is free to modify, and I won't be changing that.

Also, I had to remove the FizX tweaker tool because it was causing problems. If anybody could re-implement it and get it to work, feel free to do that.

 

[GeorgeH]

The left flipper doesn't work either. The upper flippers would probably not work if they were named following the FizX guidance.

My guess is the problem is caused by the left flipper is actually a right flipper on the left side of the table and vice versa. Playing the table is weird for me because the flipper keys play the flippers on the other side of the table. Does the real table play that way?

The other FizX guys might have some ideas but the only thing I can think of is to rename all the left flippers on the table as right flippers and vice versa. It might fix FizX but it would exchange the keys that operate the flippers.

 

[Popotte]

The right button activates the right flippers and the left, the left flippers

 

[FireDragon76]

The left flipper doesn't work either. The upper flippers would probably not work if they were named following the FizX guidance.

My guess is the problem is caused by the left flipper is actually a right flipper on the left side of the table and vice versa. Playing the table is weird for me because the flipper keys play the flippers on the other side of the table. Does the real table play that way?

The other FizX guys might have some ideas but the only thing I can think of is to rename all the left flippers on the table as right flippers and vice versa. It might fix FizX but it would exchange the keys that operate the flippers.

Later today I might experiment with renaming the flippers or finding a way to get rid of the dynamic flipper code altogether. This isn't a game about carefully aimed shots, it's more about nudging at the right times.

On the real table, it has two buttons, the same as modern pinball tables. Left button moves the flippers together on the left side, and the right button all the flippers on the right side.

Incidentally, Humpty Dumpty was the first pinball game to feature electromechanical flippers. Bat and ball games existed before them, but they were strictly mechanical.

Here's a video of the table being played:

Humpty Dumpty

 

[FireDragon76]

I got the flippers to work correctly by renaming them. For some reason, Francisco also doubled up the number of flippers, so I deleted them.

Now my issue is judging flipper strength. Are the different models of flippers in FP different in performance, or are they all more or less the same? Older stubby flippers in EM machines were not particularly strong.

Another issue is the ball release mechanism detector. It leads to too many malfunctions. It would be better to use the magnasave or special key to dispense a ball, similar to the real table (the real table also allows you to launch multiple balls at once). And a better mechanism needs to be devised to tell when all the balls are in the tank and not in play.

 

[GeorgeH]

I got the flippers to work correctly by renaming them. For some reason, Francisco also doubled up the number of flippers, so I deleted them.

I didn't even notice the extra flippers. I am not sure what the purpose of them is on this table. Zedonius flippers were popular at a time that had double flippers but there was coding that drove both flippers. On this table, none of the extra flippers has "SolenoidOn" coding. The extra flippers on this table are different than the ones used on Zed tables. Zed tables had an invisible flipper that you could only see as a circle in the editor. The extra flippers on this table look like a dot (maybe a post?).

They perform much better. How did you fix them? I don't see where you renamed them other than the upper flippers.

Now my issue is judging flipper strength. Are the different models of flippers in FP different in performance, or are they all more or less the same? Older stubby flippers in EM machines were not particularly strong.

JP might have a different opinion, the strength seems to be about the same on all flippers in FP. Of course, the shorter swing on short flippers makes them perform a little differently.

I noticed you set the elasticity on all the flippers to "hard". FizX recommends using "intermediate" on the main flippers. On this table, the throw distance is about the same for each flipper so you might try "intermediate" or "soft" on all of them. FizX allows you to adjust the strength (or omega) of the flippers as desired (TipOmega/BaseOmega). I would probably set all of them to be the same since each of them has the same throw distance.

Another issue is the ball release mechanism detector. It leads to too many malfunctions. It would be better to use the magnasave or special key to dispense a ball, similar to the real table (the real table also allows you to launch multiple balls at once). And a better mechanism needs to be devised to tell when all the balls are in the tank and not in play.

I think JP might be able to answer this better than me.

 

[Popotte]

OK, for (very) old pinballs, flippers was weaker. And Humpty Dumpty was the first pinball with flippers, so...
Concening the ball release detector, have a look to my 8 balls table, maybe it's can help...

 

[FireDragon76]

I didn't even notice the extra flippers. I am not sure what the purpose of them is on this table. Zedonius flippers were popular at a time that had double flippers but there was coding that drove both flippers. On this table, none of the extra flippers has "SolenoidOn" coding. The extra flippers on this table are different than the ones used on Zed tables. Zed tables had an invisible flipper that you could only see as a circle in the editor. The extra flippers on this table look like a dot (maybe a post?).

They perform much better. How did you fix them? I don't see where you renamed them other than the upper flippers.

The problem was the table was missing the constants that were part of the flipper options system, and that caused the lower flippers to have odd behavior. I put the default constants back in, by calling the subroutine at table startup. I still haven't figured out how to get the FizX tweaker/options to work. The FizX DMD code returns errors on my machine.

JP might have a different opinion, the strength seems to be about the same on all flippers in FP. Of course, the shorter swing on short flippers makes them perform a little differently.

I noticed you set the elasticity on all the flippers to "hard". FizX recommends using "intermediate" on the main flippers. On this table, the throw distance is about the same for each flipper so you might try "intermediate" or "soft" on all of them. FizX allows you to adjust the strength (or omega) of the flippers as desired (TipOmega/BaseOmega). I would probably set all of them to be the same since each of them has the same throw distance.



I think JP might be able to answer this better than me.

I lowered the flipper strength by 30 percent and I replaced the background texture with a high-res AI rescaling. I also set all rubber to 'soft". Table slope of 3.5 degrees seems about right, as the ball travels more side-to-side than top-to-bottom. I also raised up the "tank trigger" a bit and now it seems to behave better, though it would have been better if Francisco used a narrower trigger, IMO.

I suspect the flippers need different rotational speed to be most realistic. Also, the ball has a nasty habit of getting stuck on the metal pins on the sides of the table. The ball can be nudged free, but it seems like odd behavior.

For full SSF support, we'ld probably need different pinmech sounds. Pinmech flippers don't seem to sound right, they sound like bigger flippers.

 

[GeorgeH]

I lowered the flipper strength by 30 percent and I replaced the background texture with a high-res AI rescaling.

For some reason, the FizX guys say it is preferable to adjust TipOmega/BaseOmega in the script than to use the slider on the main flippers which they say should remain in the central position. I think the main reason for it is they say to use the slider on the upper flippers if they need to be different than the mains. I think you have all the flippers set the same so it shouldn't make any difference.

I watched some videos of the real table. Oddly enough, someone got the ball hung on one of the pegs on the side like you mentioned, and had to nudge the table a bit to free it. Something that you might want to change is the bumpers don't seem to bump at all when they are hit and the lights on them never light up. I noticed on the real table bumpers don't seem very strong but they do bump a little.

 

[FireDragon76]

For some reason, the FizX guys say it is preferable to adjust TipOmega/BaseOmega in the script than to use the slider on the main flippers which they say should remain in the central position. I think the main reason for it is they say to use the slider on the upper flippers if they need to be different than the mains. I think you have all the flippers set the same so it shouldn't make any difference.

I watched some videos of the real table. Oddly enough, someone got the ball hung on one of the pegs on the side like you mentioned, and had to nudge the table a bit to free it. Something that you might want to change is the bumpers don't seem to bump at all when they are hit and the lights on them never light up. I noticed on the real table bumpers don't seem very strong but they do bump a little.

You're right. I've been so busy working on the physics of the table and the flippers, I didn't notice that. I think the issue is that I renamed the rubbers, and the code is looking for the rubbers to get hit to trigger light sequences and scoring. So I'll work on that tomorrow.

 

[GeorgeH]

Did use the tweaker that is in the All In One or follow this guide for the more recent version:

Support File - FizX - The FizX In-Game Tweaker Tool, Release 9

Translate to French or Other Language Click on the link on the left and a new tab will open with this page translated into French. Click on the "To:" pull-down option to select a different language. If you have tried the version of the tweaker on some of TerryRed's tables, this version is...

pinballnirvana.com

 

[FireDragon76]

Did use the tweaker that is in the All In One or follow this guide for the more recent version:

Support File - FizX - The FizX In-Game Tweaker Tool, Release 9

Translate to French or Other Language Click on the link on the left and a new tab will open with this page translated into French. Click on the "To:" pull-down option to select a different language. If you have tried the version of the tweaker on some of TerryRed's tables, this version is...

pinballnirvana.com

I used the All in One code

I messed around with the textures today for the playfield. Let me know if it looks OK, particularly if there's a mismatch in gamma.

I can't figure out the scoring system that Francisco used. It doesn't seem to be identical to the original. There was alot of unnecessary changing of the lights going on. I have alot to learn about game logic, I suppose. It would also help to find a detailed explanation of the game rules. I only vaguely remember it from playing MS Pinball Arcade years ago.

 

[FireDragon76]

I've fixed the scoring system and behavior of the bumpers according to the real table rules, and also made misc improvements, like to the lighting (it's now incandescent temperature). I also got the center diamond bumper to work by putting leaf sensors on the rubber band, and using that as the "bumper" object in the scripting.

 

[FireDragon76]

I am getting closer to being finished with Humpty Dumpty. I thought I would post it so people could comment on it further.

The table slope is 3.5. The physics seem believable, but the ball falls faster than the version in MS Pinball Arcade, and there's less side-to-side play. Lowering the slope any further results in the tank drain not emptying correctly. Some playtesting might be in order, and that's why I posted the table to see if others found the physics believable.