George Martin, 1926 - 2016

[Isaac Sauvage]

the real fifth beatle to my mind... innovative and essential to much of the beatles' success.


in this clip, he examines and reworks "god only knows" with brian wilson.


Brian Wilson and George Martin in studio

 

[sleepy]

Well that blows.

 

[sleepy]

America - Old Man Took - YouTube

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[LeeVanCleef]

Poor George. I really wasn't much of a fan of his work. He sure didn't understand stereo remixing, and this lack of knowledge makes a lot of Beatles recordings almost unlistenable. Take "Got to Get You Into My Life", one of my favorite Beatles songs despite its production. Listen to this using headphones and you'll see what I mean... drums and bass spewing out of the left channel, while the screechy horns are making sure you don't hear out of your right ear again. What it comes down to is that George was really old and didn't understand stereo. He'd mix the recordings in mono and not really give a crap about the stereo versions that would still be irritating people 50 years down the road every five minutes on the Oldies stations. But he seemed like a nice guy. Hey, Andrew Loog Oldham did a much better job mixing the Stones records, but he's a real douche!
PS: the reason I had to post the mp3 is because I couldn't find a single version of the original song on Youtube. Not one version! Impressive, Apple Records... most impressive!

 

[LeeVanCleef]

I think I might have been a little hard on George. Sure, his stereo mixes are awful, but he was also responsible for one of the greatest rock albums of all time… but it’s not the one you think it would be.
Some of the greatest rock and roll ever recorded is posted in that Nuggets thread. But one thing none of those artists managed was to record a great “garage-rock” album. As it turns out, they didn’t even need to bother. The greatest garage-rock album in history was already recorded by the guys who invented garage rock and it was the A Hard Day’s Night soundtrack. Now I’m not talking about the fucked-up version that the greedy hogs at Capitol released here in America. They stripped away a handful of songs and stuck orchestrated instrumentals “from the soundtrack” in their place. That way, Capitol could dump the extra songs on a shitty album they’d compile to get extra money. Too bad Capitol was never in charge of releasing Picasso paintings. They could have cut ‘em all in half and got twice the number of art. The version I’m referring to is the original Brit release that has now become the standard with the big Beatles CD Release in the ‘80s. I think it’s the only Beatles album that’s all Lennon/McCartney songs, since George wasn’t able to sneak one in yet. What’s amazing is how adult it sounds, without losing any well-earned rock’n’roll rowdy points. The song “...And I Love Her” is the best example. The guitar fingerpicking and hand percussion give it a hypnotic, almost Latin feel. This is some deep Pet Sounds stuff and it’s recorded two years before Pet Sounds! I don’t want to knock the musical talents of the Fabs, but these boys are just a couple years down the road from taking speed by the handful and banging hookers when they weren’t performing loud and fast at some of the worst bars in Hamburg, Germany (John got the clap! That’s not a fact that makes it into most Beatles books). They’re not quite to the point where they’re gonna get this sound without a little help from their friend. So, RIP George. You did the impossible; you made rock’n’roll mature without forcing it to grow up.

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[StevOz]

I really got to say 90 years is a more then reasonable life and I doubt George ever was poor for long at all, if at all, so no not a poor at all, fortunate, lucky, perhaps had some talent, though I doubt any more talent then any of us.

 

[LeeVanCleef]

Damn, Steve... you don't screw around! istoles: Yeah, poor George! Doesn't matter how wealthy or old you are, you still don't want to die! Well... probably. My fiancee's gramps shuffled off a couple weeks ago at the ripe old age of 93, but he still loved a cold beer and a Cubs game. He would have liked another opening day.
Don't forget Steve-baby... you're a rich man, too.

 

[sleepy]

Your bad! The Beatles' mixes were about the songs. We Can Work It Out. Hello/Goodbye.
Point/Counterpoint. Divisiveness. Those mixes were Deliberately not centered.

Now listen to that America video (it was mixed for Quad and Stereo) and Listen to This.
Use headphones and when finished, correct your previous statements.

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Steve, I wouldn't bother dying just because I hit 90. Would you?

 

[LeeVanCleef]

Those mixes were Deliberately not centered.

Yeah, that was kind of my point, arne. And that's why they sound like crap. And if you're telling me they sounded like crap as part of a "word game" with the lyrics... well, that would be even more embarrassing. But, no, it was just an old man who was having trouble keeping up with the Jet Age!

Sean Magee, who worked on the mono vinyl project, explained: “There’s a great story about when they brought the second speakers into Abbey Road studios, George was like, ‘What are you doing that for?’ ‘Well, we’re going to have everything in stereo, so the music will come out of two speakers.’ ‘What the hell do you want to do that for?'”

Phil Spector thought the same thing and he ended up in jail! Isn't that why Phil Spector went to jail?

http://radio.com/2014/07/22/the-beatles-mono-lps-paul-mccartney-george-martin-apple-records/

 

[LeeVanCleef]

I don't get where you're coming from, arne. Those songs sound fine. I'm not against stereo... quite the opposite. I'm against poorly-mixed stereo. Make sure you listen to that mp3 I tossed up there for an example. And one more thing! It may be the chiba talking, but that America song is positively groovy! Damn, now I wanna hear "Sister Golden Hair"! Who the hell is that introducing them, arne? Is that Bob Hope? And talk about Sister Golden Hair! I would have killed for the lead singer's haircut in 1975!

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[sleepy]

I stick to my guns LeeVanCleef. A word game. Yes. But Mr. Martin was Likely concerned about the mix, the same as you. Mono mixes blended and obscured the limitations.
Stereo provided greater definition, which meant that Mr. Martin had to shift to tricks such as Doubling to keep the sounds fat and full-sounding.

You probably have never heard it, but if you ever play the original stereo mix of "Birthday" through a matrix surround decoder, the chorus dub of Linda singing the word "Birthday" sounds as shitty as my singing. Very rough. Sometimes it took masking to make the songs work. But all is revealed when the mix is broken back to its components.

 

[sleepy]

Those songs are examples of point/counterpoint mixing. The "combatants" are to the left or right like a discussion. Those *mixes* such as "Hello/Goodbye" may not be left/right mixes. But the left/right mixes such as GTGYIML are either "discussion mixes" or, in the case of "GTGYIML", he's in the road while eyeing the lady across the street (the horns).

Damn. That .mp3 cuts off that "every single day" ending!
I believe this mix "is being psycological". The beat is "Left Brain" (judgmental side).
The horns are "Right Brain" (emotional side). The vocal is Nicely Centered and The Guitar is off-center left. Some ambient guitar is center field. And the keyboard appears to the right, where the horns are. And Paul's vocals are Doubled.

I like it. This isn't the intent to create a formal airplane. And it could be because I spent so much time in Orchestra, because Nothing is centered when you are up there on the stage.

 

[StevOz]

AH ha actually I'd take the golden hair over most Beatles tunes most any day, though for real talent I tend to favour the soloist artist...

When I was 1...

Bob Dylan The Times They Are A Changin' 1964 - YouTube

 

[sleepy]

AH! When I was 1 too...loves me some Dylan. And so did Lennon.

 

[LeeVanCleef]

When it comes to the perpetual argument, I'm Stones all the way. The Beatles never did anything as cool as "You Can't Always Get What You Want". This is probably one of my all-time favorite Dylans and it was never even officially released. Bob just had it laying around.

Arne, you are awarded first place in Most Creative Explanation for Lousy Stereo Mixing. Your prize is a lifetime supply of "You Know My Name, Look Up the Number." Once a day, every day, until you and Steve crap out at 90. Congratulations!

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[StevOz]

Another this time before his time..

Jeff Buckley-Hallelujah - YouTube

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

crikey, i had this idea that when someone immediately passes, we open with their positive achievements.

like him or not, martin is pretty legendary in the recording studio for having advanced the state of the art. his WP page goes in to some of that, and it's not something i have any real interest in arguing about at this point.

i thought we did that stones vs. beatles slugfest a couple years ago here and got most of the ranting out of our systems. i guess i was wrong.

 

[sleepy]

The coolest thing The Stones ever did was "Gimme Shelter". Though worn to the bone, it screamed for the poor. But Bob, he didn't run with The Stones.
He ran with The Beatles and with Gordon Lightfoot. But I Like The Stones.

 

[LeeVanCleef]

But Bob, he didn't run with The Stones.

Really? istoles:



Ike, you must have missed the asterisk next to George Martin*'s name at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame across the street from you, which reads

*in case of death, seize opportunity to bitch about those crappy stereo mixes

I would say those crappy stereo mixes almost negate that "studio legend" stuff you mentioned. In fact, he's close to doing more harm than good. If you release crappy stereo mixes of the biggest band in the world, everyone's going to think that's the standard and that their music should be mixed just as poorly. Hey, I said he wasn't a douche! Is there higher praise?

Yes, you were wrong. In fact, you were wrongy-wrong. Did you notice that part where I mentioned the perpetual Beatles vs. Stones argument? It didn't stop in that other thread! It won't stop in this thread! In fact, JPL Laboratories is dumping the catalogs of both groups onto a disc they're sending up on Voyager III so other galaxies can argue about it, too! Did you ever see that ST:TNG episode where Paul Winfield played the alien whose language was based on cultural phrases from his planet? That's what Beatles vs. Stones is. It's not just a debate, it's a cultural touchstone, just like Superman vs. Batman or Buddha vs. Dr. Phil. It can also work as a launching point. During the current discussion, I learned that arne's favorite Stones song is "Gimme Shelter". That's a pretty good choice! And it's something I wouldn't have known without Beatles vs. Stones Round 2. Hell, Beatles vs Stones Round 2 has been more informative, intelligent and civil than the last 10 Republican Presidential Debates. I swear, nic, sometimes you can be so "Shaka, when the walls fell!" And don't you dare call me "the river Temarc... in winter" again, or you and I are gonna dance! istoles:

PS: Sure wish I'd discovered that "pistoles" smilie 10 years ago!

 

[GSGregg]

President Trump.....outside the restroom

Beatles/Stones, Protestant/Catholic, Thom McCann/U.S.Keds, VP/FP,,,,,

Bob Dylan.....at Harmonica School

 

[Coil_Smoke]

I remember the re-release of the first several Beatles mono records in stereo. They proudly proclaimed "Electronically RE-Channeled Stereo" err, ah, something like that anyhow. And it was pretty weird. They achieved the miracle of different sounds emanating from one groove. That was good enough for us masses lucky to have stereo speakers on our "Pitiful Portable Picnic Players". What it meant to me was Mono mixes where all they had to work with. So, some gimmicky filters decided what went and how much went to each wall of that groove. Vio la ... STEREO

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

Nice tunes!

I have a new extension that I'm going to try and attach it's a .flac and I expect it to fail miserably.

From The Beatles, Revolver, had to compare Got to Get You into My Life versions, this is the (2009) Stereo Remaster and also added some of The White Album (2009) Stereo Remaster.

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

Seems to have worked, I'm opening .flac extensions with Music Bee, a program suggested by StevOz awhile ago and you have to pay attention to those! I have Sennheiser headphones and am now going to compare the stuff.

 

[JonPurpleHaze]

Another test with America tunes, this time .flac vs. youtube stuff, I'll try to find the best youtube video I can and attach the same tune with the .flac extension.
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Sister Golden Hair (HQ Original) Youtube:
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-IlSCikQvGo" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

California Dreamin' .flac version (America) vs. The Mamas & The Papas, because I used to live there and miss it and America has a nice version.
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/N-aK6JnyFmk" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>​

 

[LeeVanCleef]

LOL! Wow, Gregg, I didn't realize there was such a deep division between McCann and Keds. Well, put me down on the Keds side, at least until those assholes learn how to spell "Tom". Their name looks like some sort of Vulcan mating ritual. "Spock must perform the Thom mi'Cann before midnight or he'll explode!"
I think I had an Elvis Presley album like that, Coily... "Repurposed in Glorious Stereo" or something. I can't really say how it sounded. I was playing it on my brother's old "portable" stereo (about as "portable" as a 1970s metal tricycle) and I did, indeed, have to tape a nickel to the cartridge to keep the needle from skating across the vinyl.
Wow, Flac files! You're fancy-pants, Jon! That being said, I look forward to strapping on the Boses and checking out that Sister Golden Hair Flac! I do have a pair of Sennheisers... not fancy ones, not as fancy as I'd like, that's for sure!... and I'll probably go back to them when the Boses fall apart, because Bose makes overpriced trash. istoles:
Wait! I wanna try one. "Kardashian." That's it. That's the whole phrase. Really, how the hell are we gonna explain that to an alien civilization?