George Martin, 1926 - 2016

Well I tried...

And hey. Those "Electronically Rechanneled to Simulate Stereo" releases were Just frequency filters. Pass the bass to the left channel and the treble to the right channel, and maybe use a midrange notch filter for the center vocals. It was shite.
I did better with digital rechanneling. One of the prizes that the folks are holding on to.
 

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Goddammit, arne! Why am I downloading that again? It sounds the same as the others! I can't seem to turn a corner without "Got To Get You Into My Life" jumping out and scaring me! Man, I bet I could find a mono copy of Revolver in two shakes of a lamb's tail!

Okay, it took more like four shakes, but would you listen to that? It sounds fantastic! I thought the biggest difference would be the horns, but, played back-to-back with the stereo version, there's no more Ringo banging a tambourine against the left side of my head. No more "arguments" arne! Everything is in musical harmony, as God, the Beatles and George Martin intended it!
 

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I was afraid Tomorrow Never Knows would lose some of its tripiness in mono... but, I don't know... it sounds pretty good to me!
 

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You do realize that the mono version is a different take? You can tell from the fade-out at the end.

Something else. Another excellent reason why Mr. Martin quizzed about the stereo prep could be due to the fact that 45 rpm singles were not in stereo at that time, and that the stereo albums were mixed from 4 track. Could be, do the singles and if it's a hit, then do the added time and expense of a stereo mix. I do remember that some albums were not offered in stereo on initial release. Not sure about Beatles, but mono seemed to be the standard for "Meet the Beatles". I can't remember seeing any stereo versions in 1st quarter '64.
 
bill, remind me to start tribute threads to all the various things you feel rantish about.

we're going to shake that man right out of you're hair so that nobody would ever dare to ask you-- have you never been mellow?

lord a mighty...
 
That sounds like a great idea, nic! The problem is that some of the people I wish to “offer tribute” to are still… you know… “breathing”. So what I’ll do is I’ll compile a list and you take those MMA-trained lethal weapon hands and feet of yours and… you know… “murder” them. Wait! That’s not a euphemism! Let’s try that again. And you “snake out the drain.” Hmmmm… that sounds like we’re making a porno. But, it doesn’t sound like murder. We’re getting the hang of this!
Let’s get you started:

1. Paris Hilton
2. Jay Leno
3. David Latemeia

As you can see, I’m thinking of you. We can’t just have you going around the country and murdering nothing but famous people. You go directly to jail, I don’t get to write tributes. Lose/lose! So meet the red herring at #3, the bully of South Elpyco! There wasn’t a single little kid he didn’t want to beat up. But there was one he could never, ever catch! You gotta be a pretty smart coyote to catch this motherfucking road runner! Sadly for him, David was a very stupid coyote. But I’ve been working on his “tribute” since I was 10. Chop-chop, nic! Let me know when “the swallows have returned to Capistrano” and I can get to work!
 
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Why you want to get David Letterman, Lee?
 
LOL! Well, that wasn't quite my intention, and I kinda like Letterman... but I could write a great tribute to him. Plus, we'll need someone for Ike to focus his savagery on once he's done with 1 thru 3, that way he doesn't come back looking for us like in every action movie ever. That's right, sleepy... I've made this an "us". Hope you know how to play cribbage... we may have 25 years to life to... "kill"! Ah-hahahahahaha!
 
Could be, do the singles and if it's a hit, then do the added time and expense of a stereo mix.

Actually, they did everything in mono up to... Sgt. Pepper's? That's the way all the singles and albums were released in England. The crappy stereo mixes were a special gift to America! Well, I guess we deserved it since we kicked their lobsterback asses right back across the Atlantic during the first British Invasion. I didn't expect we'd win the second British Invasion, but I think we could have done more to keep Herman's Hermits out.
 
let me ask you something, bill (lee van cleef? who hacked it?)--

when you decided to start ranting about george martin's beatles' stereo mixes to the exclusion of the man's life accomplishments, did you also recall at the time that the thread-starter (myself) was a major admirer of the beatles? ...and martin?

if so, was that you, trying to send me a particular message over here?

so at this point, i'm quite unsure what the hell you are actually trying to say, given the landslide of cultural / hipster references worked in to your words.


second issue is-- when someone passes, how do you think we should handle the matter? should it be more of a tribute... more of a roast... or more of general free-for-all in which every voice shouts at once?

here's a Q-- how would you yourself handle it when one of your beloved icons passed away and people who you considered to be friends, and who understood that relationship, proceeded to slag the person's memory off?
 
First off, offering a critique of his work is not "slagging the person's memory off". If I had spent the whole thread talking about how he was a horse-fucker, then that would be slagging. I love music and sound, and have since I was a child. So I can honestly tell you that my feelings on Sir George's absolutely horrible stereo mixes are beliefs that are as deeply-held as your professed admiration for him. I might disagree with your beliefs but, as a friend, it didn't enter my mind that I should force you to explain yourself. I'm not sure why you're demanding the same from me.
You have also apparently chosen to ignore the whole entry in which I made a case that Hard Day's Night wouldn't have been the classic album it is without Sir George at the helm. Now, I can't read these threads to you, nic. If you choose to skip parts or read them with a bias already in your mind that I'm saying something positively awful about said dead person, then that is your problem, not mine.
But I'll play your game. I love me some Keith Richards and I'll do my best to be the first to post when he dies later this year. Now let's say you or sleepy or anyone else pops in and says "Yeah, but they weren't too good in the '70s when he was a junkie." Now you tell me what I should do in that situation. Should I indignantly demand that no mention of his drug use be made in the hallowed thread commemorating his passing? Or should I remember my father's words: "Opinions are like assholes: everyone's got one", and talk about how he made Exile On Main St on heroin so it must have been some pretty good horse.
This has been a fun and free-wheeling thread in which opinions were exchanged and a lot of great music was shared. Outside of starting this thread, your participation as been to bitch about how I dared mention "Beatles" and "Stones" in the same sentence and then to complain about all those horrible things I never said about poor ol' Georgie. I'd say I've been pretty good-natured about it up until this latest crap. Now, I grant you, that may be my own "selective thread reading", but that's definitely the vibe I've been getting. On the chance that I'm not wrong, then I'm going to cross my fingers and hope Shakespeare isn't too "hipster" for you. "The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars but in ourselves."
 
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PS: You, me, arne, Steve, JPH have been sharing internet space for a minimum of ten years in most cases. A lot of the "newbies" in this thread have been at least five years. Even the internet can get claustrophobic and people can get cranky. Let nothing I said up there make you think I'm not grateful to have you as my pen pal. That sounds so much nicer than "internet friend". A little less dirty, too. That being said... if you wanna lay some boogie-woogie on the king of rock'n'roll, then I'll be more than happy to dance with you, nic. Don't worry, both of those phrases I used are readily available on Wikipedia. We don't want you falling behind.
 
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So long as you know...rather then using [ size = +1 ] then maybe I'll lick ya face, though I'll post later on how to surf! :rockon:
 

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It was meant to be Mod. Carnaby St. y'know. And I believe it was the band who wanted the stereo mix that way.

Isn't Art tyrannical?

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Hey! I've found the perfect alibi!
A reporter at NPR claims that George Martin didn't do it. Martin did the remixes in 1987 for CD, but that I Guess would be to transfer to digital standards and not to remix the recordings. George and Giles definitely did remix the recordings for the "Love" show, probably to prevent drop-outs in the theater that may occur if using the original stereo mixes. Eleanor Rigby has Paul centered, and A Day in the Life no longer pans the vocal like sunrise/sunset in the original mix.

http://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2009/09/mono_or_stereo_help_2.html
 
This is a George and Giles remix for the "Love" Cirque du Soleil show. Pretty good stereo given the source was recorded with Mono finger.
 

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That NPR story was pretty nifty, sleepy. I gotta say, I think I'm more partial to the mono. I never listened to the mono mixes once the Fabs started getting creative in the studio... I always thought it would take something away... but those and the Tomorrow Never Knows sound pretty alright! Although, she's right... the monos take getting used to without that stereo new-car smell.
That certainly is boogie-woogie, gregg! Frank Sinatra gave the Brecker Brothers a shout-out on his version of "Mack the Knife" on LA is My Lady! I later discovered that they did some work with Lou Reed. There can't be many artist who worked with both Sinatra and Lou Reed!
EDIT: Damn, that's a hell of a song! That was my first solo Brecker Bros. Wait... can two brothers be "solo"? It's the first time I heard them on their own recording. And, man, they brought some dirty-funk for dessert after the boogie main course!
 
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The NPR story got the mono and stereo examples swapped. But the interesting thing is how the mono example sounds 1/2 step higher in pitch than in the stereo example for the same song, "She's Leaving Home". I wonder if that is an error in the example recording?
 
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Very strange. For some reason "She's Leaving Home" is playing in the place of "Getting Better" and where "She's Leaving Home" is supposed to be, instead I'm getting that Sleepy song. I've checked this phenomenon on both Firefox and Chrome.
 
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Very strange. For some reason "She's Leaving Home" is playing in the place of "Getting Better" and where "She's Leaving Home" is supposed to be, instead I'm getting that Sleepy song. I've checked this phenomenon on both Firefox and Chrome.

Yeah, me too. I kept getting the sleepy song in place of home. BTW, what the hell is the sleepy song on? Has to be Revolver, because they didn't do anything that "out there" on Rubber Soul... did they? Yep, sure enough... Revolver. That song's pretty good. I wonder how I missed that over the years? I like the trippy Lennon stuff.
In that Playboy interview Lennon did before he died, I think the reviewer was actually asking him the question a lot of weirdos like me wanted the answer to: Why'd you say "I buried Paul"? So he's explaining that he actually said "cranberry sauce", but then he makes this weird passive-aggressive statement about Strawberry Fields that it sure seemed weird that it was always his songs that the Fabs and George Martin did their more experimental stuff on. I find it hard to believe that the other guys came up with anything weirder than what John had in mind.
Here's the interview. If you haven't read it, it's one of the first and I'd say still the best eyewitness accounts of what it was like to be a Beatle. Now, considering that the source is a very notably passionate man, what facts are embellished and which ones might be left out are up to the reader to decide. But, man, he could tell a story! That would have been a great rock&roll memoir! WARNING: It's longer than one of my posts!


http://www.beatlesinterviews.org/db1980.jlpb.beatles.html
 
This is a George and Giles remix for the "Love" Cirque du Soleil show. Pretty good stereo given the source was recorded with Mono finger.

LOL! I was sure you were gonna "rickroll" me, sleepy! I figured I'd hit "play" and it would be that same version of Got to Get You Into My Life"!
Ye gads! That recording is from the actual Ed Sullivan Broadcast! That sounds amazing! I'm gonna have to send that to my brother, see if it sounds better than it did on our old black&white Zenith.
 
I think they spent more time in Los Angeles than we knew. I saw Paul in '77. He was riding in the back seat of a Silver Shadow at it turned from a residential street. His daughter Stella has a shop nearby.
I've already mentioned seeing John and Yoko driving behind me one day in '77.
Ringo lives down the road from where the Lennon's house was. I never saw George. But the stories are that he held his press conferences at the WB Home Office when Dark Horse Records was distributed by them. I don't know if that's the current distributor. And Mr. Martin is seen visiting Brian Wilson in L.A. I don't like naming the exact locations due to wackos like Chapman who are out there.

On an unrelated note, my old man left our Pennsylvania home in Dec. '63 for six months. The story was that he went to Burbank without us in order to gain employment at a gas station. Then he returned to take us back to Burbank with him.
He had studied vacuum tube t,v, and radio repair in Pittsburgh in '57, though this was useless for employment as he had lost his main right hand at the age of 19. Else, what A Great Prop that stump was! Completely Undetectable.

He left us at the exact same time that KDKA Pittsburgh DJ Clark Race left to tour with...you know. He came back six months later and we returned together to Burbank.
A couple of weeks after settling in, he came home from work one afternoon and claimed that he "serviced a Rolls Royce occupied by four well-dressed young men". He said they were very polite. He asked them where they were from and one of them answered, "England". This was the same day as the Hollywood Bowl '64 concert. And the gas station was near The Ramada Inn, which is very near the Hollywood-Burbank Airport, now The Bob Hope Airport. This was the Beatlemania era, and chances are good the Inn was where they hid, though the official story says different. It doesn't mention The Ramada. Can't remember what it used.
Now, given what I've learned in the years since, that the gas station job was total bullshit, I have to ask you. Are DJ's ever that devious?

The odd thing about his "Rolls Royce Story" is that he always expressed hatred for rock-and-roll. He loved Country Music. But then by '67 he would play the Top 40 rock pops station while driving my Brother back to the NAVY base at Channel Island...
...at Channel Island...at Channel Island.
Rolls Royce. Clark Race. Do you know anything about British Slang?
 
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That was a cool story! Damn... right coast to left coast... I'm sure that wasn't a culture-shock at all for you! My Brit slang is limited. I know "fanny" means "vagina".
I'm sure there are DJs quite capable of deviousness. But I was at what is described as a "small Midsized Market." We were, for the most part, idiots with our heads too far up our own asses. We were far too callow to be devious. That was up to our bosses. Not the guy that hired me, though. He was a one-of-a-kind genius! You might have heard of him... Sherman Cohen. His LA years from this site include KGBS, 1970; XPRS, 1971-72; KRLA, 1976-77; KIIS, 1977-80; KRLA, 1980-82. I think the last one was his first Program Director's job. And I'm pretty sure from '72 to '76, he worked solely as part of the Wolfman Jack empire... which consisted of the Wolfman and Sherman, whose job was to keep the Wolf out of the blow. He died far too young at age 53. I suppose nic could make fun of Sherman. I guess we'd be even then.
 
That whole era was weird. Before my old man left, my Brother asked him about how to hook up a turntable that was pulled from our blown Philco t.v./phono combo. Brother "found" a wood crate Zenith tabletop tube amp radio that had no input connections (RCA Phono Plugs and Jacks appeared in the mid 60's, from some kid "who had issues", a couple years after that experiment) and he wanted to connect the turntable to play through the radio. Else, we had no record player. So Pa told him how to do it.
And then Pa left the family car for Brother to take care of the home. A shopworn Chrysler, nothing special. You were allowed a driver's license in Pennsylvania at 16, day permit only. Never mind the ice and snow.
Pa borrowed a late model black Thunderbird convertible with rear deck AstroSound reverb from an unknown relative, to drive to Burbank.

So Brother hooked up the turntable to play records through the radio. But we had No Records! A knock-off album of "The Music Man", a piano collection of religious tunes, a Ferlin Husky 45, and a 45 of his jr. high fight song. He didn't play any of those. The turntable sat there.
Then in February '64, he bought the "Meet the Beatles" with his lunch money. That's when he started using his turntable rig. The ground shielding was poor, and we listened to that album repeatedly through the warm, soft hum and buzz that only a tube system can bring.

What lunch money? We were living in a house on the southwest corner of a dairy farm by the grace of our apparently-wealthy step-grandfather. But we was poor and shitting in an outhouse in the snow. Colder than a witches ass cold. As my Pa prepared to leave, that's when step-grandpa suddenly thought to add an indoor bathroom to that ranchouse. After living there for 1 1/2 years. Suddenly he felt he could do it.
How does the butt ail? My step-grandfather married my widowed Grandma in '57.
He was the main dairyman in the county and a v.i.p. at the local Ford City, Pa Mellon Bank. Every Christmas, each of us kids received a $5 bill enclosed in an attractive Mellon Bank Holiday Gift Envelope. That might be where Brother got his Beatles money from, though I doubt it. Brother was smoking at 16, buying gas for his cruising in the family car and buying stuff. And me, I was 8 in '62. Most of that 1 1/2 years on the farm I spent every day cutting across the pasture to get to step-grandfather's house to play with their piano while being careful to avoid any Bulls in the pasture. I fingered it. I opened the cover and plucked the strings. I even strummed it. Sometimes I would practice as if creating a new tune for Sinatra. Or somebody.
I was creating 1 and 2 and 3 or more tunes each visit. And quite a Lot of that stuff got out.

We had moved to Burbank in '59. That's where Pa bought the t.v./phono combo, though he never played records. At least not at home...
His last job before we returned to Pennsylvania in '62 (started hummin' a song from 1962...yep. A Pun for Penn) was at the Wayne Watson Shell station where I met his friendly competitor. John Marley of Tony's Flying A gas station. Though I've never seen it, the film "Point Blank" is supposed to have shot a scene at Wayne's Shell station. This was the same station that he returned to Burbank "to work for", where he once "pumped gas for a Rolls Royce".

I was a fan of Beanie and Cecil, on NBC in '62, and I proposed a plastic Beanie Cap with a spring-wound motor that would launch the circle propeller blade into the air like Beanie did when you pulled on the chin strap. In practice, a cloth chord. And there was also "Chatty Cathy". Both were mfg by Mattel. We visited a Mattel foreman in Hawthorne, Ca in '65, as "friends of the family". Nothing was said about the stolen toys.

Well, enough of that. But it helps me to remember details long forgotten and never spoken of.

And yes, there is some culture shock. But since I spent Kindergarten in Burbank, I was prepared some. I started my schooling as speech therapy sessions in Pennsylvania at the age of 3. My therapist used a reel-to-reel tape deck and I got to wear cupped headphones in early '57. I became immediately aware of sound and its directions.
Round about late Spring or so, one night Brother was spinning a record on a sewing needle crackerbox player that used an acoustic tonearm to "amp" the sound. No electric amp. The crackerbox broke a year or so later. But as I sat there on the floor with my head in my hands listening, I started thinking about sound direction. I started patting my ears alternately with my hands left-right to spread out the sound. Brother was too smart for the age of 10. He told me that the needle was vibrating on contact with the sound waves cut into the groove of the record. I thought about my two ears and two hands and the left-right walls of the groove, and I asked him about using each wall of the groove for each of two channels, for two ears. By December '57, Audio Fidelity released that version of the stereo record. My old man had already completed his RCA tube repair course by then... ...

My first grade was in Penn for about a month. That is where I got the paddle for failing to wash my hands before touching my own brown paper lunch bag. Then we came to Burbank for about 3 years, then returned to Penn for 1 1/2 years and then returned to Ca to present. The kids in Penn were from rustic country and Ford City, then home of the Pittsburgh Plate Glass (PPG) factory on the Allegheny River. And the kids were honest, sincere, humble, and a blast to know. They were so humble that, there was a kid who wore a stiff formal white shirt to school and he was beside himself.
We were finger painting that day. I took pity on him and I made the mistake of holding up my paint-coated hands and growling like a monster threatening to smear the paint on his nice white shirt. I hoped that he would find the absurdity of the moment and relax. But, I don't know if he was reacting to my cleft palate or to his own much-too-serious shirt austerity. He intead began to scream and then weep, terrified that I would destroy the nice shirt that his parents gave him to wear. I was so sorry for traumatizing him. I backed off and apologized. He just looked at me with tear-stained eyes and said nothing. So sad. There was also a girl on oral report day that was so terrified that, as she stood before her wonderfully nice fellow students, she lost it and wet herself. The teacher took pity and had the puddle removed with haste.

But Burbank. Latch key kids. Broken homes right and left in the majority. Chickens in a box for the sake of "apartment living". And nearly all of them competing for what they lacked. And it was nobody's time for anyone with disabilities. They were/are poor of spirit and it was a chore for them to be nice for no reason other than to avoid being in trouble. If you were given a school team assignment with a fellow student, he would likely shirk the entire time. But I remember getting clever in 5th grade on Valentine's Day. I was disappointed with the west coast kid's lack of imagination and lack of interest. So I cut little doors and windows into a shoe box and glued thank you messages in those windows and doors and puppet strings to open an close those windows and doors when someone dropped a valentine in the slot at the top.
That got oohs and ahhs from the girls while a couple of the boys were fascinated with how I built it. But then nothing came of the interest. I don't think they ever played with creating anything. They just watched t.v. or listened to the radio. Or spun records.
 
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