George Martin, 1926 - 2016

[Isaac Sauvage]

First off, offering a critique of his work is not "slagging the person's memory off". If I had spent the whole thread talking about how he was a horse-fucker, then that would be slagging. I love music and sound, and have since I was a child. So I can honestly tell you that my feelings on Sir George's absolutely horrible stereo mixes are beliefs that are as deeply-held as your professed admiration for him. I might disagree with your beliefs but, as a friend, it didn't enter my mind that I should force you to explain yourself. I'm not sure why you're demanding the same from me.
You have also apparently chosen to ignore the whole entry in which I made a case that Hard Day's Night wouldn't have been the classic album it is without Sir George at the helm. Now, I can't read these threads to you, nic. If you choose to skip parts or read them with a bias already in your mind that I'm saying something positively awful about said dead person, then that is your problem, not mine.
But I'll play your game. I love me some Keith Richards and I'll do my best to be the first to post when he dies later this year. Now let's say you or sleepy or anyone else pops in and says "Yeah, but they weren't too good in the '70s when he was a junkie." Now you tell me what I should do in that situation. Should I indignantly demand that no mention of his drug use be made in the hallowed thread commemorating his passing? Or should I remember my father's words: "Opinions are like assholes: everyone's got one", and talk about how he made Exile On Main St on heroin so it must have been some pretty good horse.
This has been a fun and free-wheeling thread in which opinions were exchanged and a lot of great music was shared. Outside of starting this thread, your participation as been to bitch about how I dared mention "Beatles" and "Stones" in the same sentence and then to complain about all those horrible things I never said about poor ol' Georgie. I'd say I've been pretty good-natured about it up until this latest crap. Now, I grant you, that may be my own "selective thread reading", but that's definitely the vibe I've been getting. On the chance that I'm not wrong, then I'm going to cross my fingers and hope Shakespeare isn't too "hipster" for you. "The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars but in ourselves."

i would like to think that i set the tenor of the thread by my opening statement and the fact of a notable person's death. how you could conceive it otherwise is... something that i don't quite understand and which is offensive to me, frankly.

maybe i'm being naive upon internet psychology, but... i truly did attempt a fairly neutral thanks upon the man in this case. i knew very well how you felt about the beatles / martin and did not want to agitate you and others -- frankly there are a lot of younger folks who think the beatles are some variety of overblown joke -- but i, apparently, naively assumed that there would be something of an equal consideration on your part.

consider also that i still don't really know you very well, bill.
it seems (from long ago) we have some common interests and common intelligence, true,
but for my part i've offered a couple times to talk to you in person. you have consistently declined, for your own valid reasons, no doubt.

i really hope that you're going through something right now, bill, because you're not a mean person in general. in fact, you've been brilliant at PN and for the scene as a whole.

 

[sleepy]

Hmmm...
Looking up the history of the RCA Phono Plug, it appears that I may once again be mistaken. Wikipedia claims they were developed in the 40's for add-on turntables for their radios. As often happens, it may have been available and then discontinued for a couple of decades. Most entertainment systems were one-piece composite units with built-in speakers.
Those plugs appeared with interest in separate component stereo products in the 60's. Before then, we only saw 1/4 inch phone plugs (headphone plugs), else hard-wired post ties installed by technicians. Else screws that you wrapped the connecting wires around before tightening with a screwdriver (and risking a destructive Short). But we never saw the RCA Phono Plugs before the 60's. And I don't believe that any of my Father's official RCA Repair Books from '57 even mentions them. That is Very Odd for not being listed under parts and repair.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

also, would it be such a bad thing if we were all experts upon this siuff, in turn?

steve oz kicks my arse!
i boot sleepy upon the backside!
sleepy boots bilbo baggins upon a higher level, eh!?

right, so i've sold my soul now, happy!

 

[sleepy]

I have to say it. I really love the George Martin sound. And I know. There is a school of thought, that a producer should only scribe for the artist. But, like Bacharach or Roger Nichols, his influence was well worth the listen. When McCartney was reported to be signed for the "Live and Let Die" theme, I cried to the Gods to get George Martin as producer. I got my wish, and it was Brilliant.

 

[sleepy]

Eh. All together Now?

 

[LeeVanCleef]

but i, apparently, naively assumed that there would be something of an equal consideration on your part.

You're right. My consideration was positively unequal. Especially considering the way I gushed about him. Christ on a cracker, it's in the second post I made in this thread! I went back to check and make sure I didn't write it in wingdings!

What’s amazing is how adult it sounds, without losing any well-earned rock’n’roll rowdy points. The song “...And I Love Her” is the best example. The guitar fingerpicking and hand percussion give it a hypnotic, almost Latin feel. This is some deep Pet Sounds stuff and it’s recorded two years before Pet Sounds! I don’t want to knock the musical talents of the Fabs, but these boys are just a couple years down the road from taking speed by the handful and banging hookers when they weren’t performing loud and fast at some of the worst bars in Hamburg, Germany (John got the clap! That’s not a fact that makes it into most Beatles books). They’re not quite to the point where they’re gonna get this sound without a little help from their friend. So, RIP George. You did the impossible; you made rock’n’roll mature without forcing it to grow up.

The "tenor" you set was this line:

the real fifth beatle to my mind... innovative and essential to much of the beatles' success.

Hell, nic, that's exactly what I said! I just took a really long-winded paragraph to say it! If you had read any of the links I sprinkled throughout, you would have seen that the argument over the Beatles Stereo/Mono mixes has been going on amongst fans for years. Notice that I said "fans". That's right! There's people out there who are fans of George Martin's work who hate his stereo mixes... just like I'm a fan of George Martin's work but hate his stereo mixes! Perhaps now you can see why I think you just read what you wanted to read and only stopped by long enough to make sure you used the term "rant" in all its forms and glory. Really? Was what I said about Hard Day's Night "speaking or shouting at length in a wild, impassioned way: a tirade" I'll agree with impassioned, but I held "tirade" at bay until this post! Well... maybe that other one, too. Perhaps now you can see why I, too, thought "Man, I sure hope Nic gets over whatever he's going through." And I'm not sure you have. I noticed a lot of "poor angry Bill" in your response, but I didn't pick up on any of that self-reflection that Brutus and Cassius were yapping about. Buddy, if you thought that 'hipster" crack wouldn't get me up on my hind legs, then you may be correct in your claim not to know me well. You are, however, one of the few people on this site that knows me off this site (although, to be honest, I can't think of anyone here I wouldn't welcome in to my boring little corner of the world if they chose), so I'd say you're doing better than most people I meet on the interwebs. Ye gads, look at some of the stuff I've posted off this site! I'd say one thing you should know from Facefuck is I'm not a fan of bullshit. Well, now you know how many passive-aggressive posts it takes before I demand an explanation: 3

 

[LeeVanCleef]

Don't think I'm not grateful for the thread itself, though. Without it, I may never have looked into The Beatles mono Revolver. I am proud to say that the mono mix of "Got to Get You Into My Life" has taken the four-star rating that once belonged to the stereo mix. The stereo mix is in the Recycle Bin and I hope never to hear that screeching mess ever again, unless it actually screams as its bytes are slowly being repurposed. Just speaking as a fan. istoles:

 

[LeeVanCleef]

I have to say it. I really love the George Martin sound. And I know. There is a school of thought, that a producer should only scribe for the artist. But, like Bacharach or Roger Nichols, his influence was well worth the listen. When McCartney was reported to be signed for the "Live and Let Die" theme, I cried to the Gods to get George Martin as producer. I got my wish, and it was Brilliant.

I think, overall, George Martin was a better, more-experienced producer than Andrew Loog Oldham. Just think what would have happened if all that time he wasted in the studio watching John and Paul drop acid and hang violinists upside-down by their ankles he had been working on some real rock'n'roll with the Stones! Yeah! Now that's a tribute!
Man, what was it like to be George Martin during the White Album sessions, when everyone hated each other? Ringo quit the band! Yeah! Ringo! I hope George got hazard pay. He's got to get a lot of credit for making a silk purse out of that sow's ear. At least John was gentleman enough to make sure George wasn't blamed for that huge dump he took on there called Revolution No. 9

 

[LeeVanCleef]

What's weird about our respective upbringings, arne, is that I was the first latchkey kid out in the wilds of Wichitucky in '74. You know, I never thought about this, but I don't think there was another divorced parent in my Catlick school class... that's about 20 kids from '74 to '79 and... no, there might have been two other kids, but I'm gonna bet the average in Cali wasn't 3 out of 20! Ah, just goes to show that all the cool stuff happens first in California. And this poor little latchkey fucker didn't have a damn thing to do until we got skateboarding in '77!
You got the paddle! In the words of Nancy Marchand as Mama Soprano: "Aw, poor you!" We had this ancient German nun who had a penchant for putting library books up against heads... usually right on top... the part of the skull that takes awhile to develop in kids. That abusive old cunt. I guess they never thought to look for war criminals in Wichita.
Jeezum Crow, Arne! You travelled more in your first trip than I managed until I was 12. And that was just two airplane visits to Memphis! Damn, son! How many "comic books long" was just one of those journeys? You know, arne... I could see how you'd feel... you know... kinda bad about what you did to Little Lord Fauntleroy... but it's, uh, it's kinda funny from here! That poor little girl!

 

[StevOz]

Though we know it was The Bootles! :D

The Goodies as... The Bootles! clip - YouTube

 

[LeeVanCleef]

There's a DVD?!?!? I think I might pass. I'll stick with The Rutles!
You know, if we were to cast a villain in the whole "stereo mix" controversy, I'd have Scotland Yard take a look at Geoff Emerick. George was old and he had never worked with stereo before. It's just a fact, not an insult. But Geoff was the engineer starting with Revolver. Hell, he was younger than The Beatles... he knew the stereo mixes for bands like The Who or The Yardbirds or They Who Shall Not Be Named didn't sound so weird! And I would bet George pawned a lot of that stereo-mixing stuff off on him since George's concerns didn't extend past the mono British release. Not surprisingly, Emerick produced one of my least-favorite early Elvis Costello albums Imperial Bedroom. That record sounds about as warm as a graveyard! I was going to blame Alan Parsons, but he didn't start until Abbey Road... and that's an album that sounds pretty damn good. You know, Phil Spector didn't like stereo either, but if you load a bowl, turn out the lights and listen to Phil's mix of "The Long and Winding Road" on headphones, you'll think you're in heaven. I found that out when I was 17, off a cassette played on my Sony mini-jambox through my JCPenneys headphones and into my stoned immaculate skull. Never could understand why McCartney hates this version so much. I know for a fact he's loaded a bowl or two in his lifetime!

 

[sleepy]

Well sure, the shirt was funny. But the kid was never rude, only sad. I read his reaction as somebody who was very careful with the few nice things that he owned because they didn't have much and because I value quality myself. I get really disgusted with the disposable attitudes. And maybe it was just the apprehension of destroying that nice shirt with an unannounced fingerpainting session. And it could have been a shirt that he was given by a late parent or grandparent. Something that is irreplaceable.

 

[GSGregg]

WARNING: It's longer than one of my posts!

http://www.beatlesinterviews.org/db1980.jlpb.beatles.html

But, still shorter than Peter F. Hamilton's average work.....

Well, it took a while, and I have to admit to scanning after the first page to shorten it up (there are PINemHi challenges to be met, you know). I guess my favorite parts are the comments about what particular songs meant and who wrote what. I was unaware, though, about how George showed his 'appreciation' to John in his book.

 

[LeeVanCleef]

HA! I just saw a new Hamilton audiobook that's short stories based on two other series of his that isn't even the one I've read 1500 pages of! I think I'll give up my seat on the bus for that one!

 

[sleepy]

I am not a fan of That Road. I can't get past the Duh-Duh, Duh-Duh arrangement.
Several years ago while visiting Dr. Lector, a neighbor of his was playing a piano rendition of that tune. It was Miles above anything you will ever hear. And it didn't use any Duh-Duh crap. It was Really Brilliant. This tune should have been a companion to Let it Be. Some parts have more in common with "Bridge Over Troubled Waters".

The following version is somewhat rudimentary, but it demonstrates the kindred to Let it Be. A softer Duh-Duh.

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[LeeVanCleef]

How dare you say that about the Phil Spector mix! That's like peeing on the New Testament! Nah, I totally get you. Really? Just the orchestra bothers you? Not the heavenly choir? There's no doubt that Phil threw everything but the kitchen sink into that mix. I like to think that sonically-overstuffed song was a great intro to the excess of the rest of the 1970s and all the polyester, pet rocks and swingers' parties that came with it.

 

[sleepy]

Who did the arrangement? It sounds like a lot of Paul's post-Beatles work where he did the arrangements. Which was the driving force behind wishing for Martin-for-Bond.
I do like many of his tunes. Just not the duh-duh arrangements or the thin Pop.

But WOW! Did he really do the arrangement and production for Mary Hopkins? "Those Were the Days" and "Goodbye" were absolutely Great.

 

[Coil_Smoke]

Cranberry Sauce...?

OK, john Lennon is definitely saying "Cranberry Sauce" Not "Paul Is Dead" But, damn THAT story has got some long legs. "He Blew His Mind Out In A Car" "He Didn't Noticed That The Lights Had Changed" . YouTube & good ol internet has a shocking amount of 'information?' about Paul McCartney's death and replacement by some Other 'Paul'? The preponderance of the preposterous evidence sure adds up to an explosive story that I thought died down a long, winding road, a long time ago.

P>S> Fuck! all those side by side images I posted now fail . You can go to this page to see some of them >>>
http://digilander.libero.it/jamespaul/fc3.html

That Stories' Home Page >>>http://digilander.libero.it/jamespaul/fc1.html

 

[sleepy]

I think the most damnable evidence can be found on The White Album. And it is certainly clear to me, that the name of the replacement is "Dan". Consider the following lyric.
It is very telling:

The Doctor came in,
Stinking of Gin,
And proceeded to Lie on the table

And there you have it. "North Dakota" might as well be The North Sea.
Have a listen:
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[LeeVanCleef]

Man, I used to eat that "Paul is Dead" stuff up! It took me forever to spot the "skull shadow" in the leaves on the back of Abbey Road. I wasn't able to catch was the secret phone number in the stars on the Magical Mystery Tour album cover. You were supposed to call it and talk to... Paul's ghost? Stu Sutcliffe's ghost? Ringo?

 

[sleepy]

I thought it was "You Know My Name". Can I quit listening to it now? I've gotta hurl from sour milk, but I'll be back...later...

 

[LeeVanCleef]

I thought the replacement's name was... you know... Billy Shears... supposedly. No need to post Rocky Racoon on my account... I knew all the words by the time I was five! Comes with the territory of having a big brother on the "Beatles" side of the "Beatles vs. They Who Shall Not Be Named" argument. That's what I don't get about all the pointless hubbub in this thread... "Beatles vs. They Who Shall Not Be Named" has been a drunken-cookout tradition in my family for decades. What the hell do other families do? Lawn darts? Is that still a thing?
I like to think I've done a pretty good job of keeping up on my "Paul is Dead" studies and I'm going to say that no one's come up with a good clue since the '70s. I'm afraid that includes that crazy, crazy site, Coily. istoles:
sleepy, I hereby commute your "listen to 'You Know My Name' " sentence, finding that it is cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[sleepy]

But I like the song. Hey, what me and my Brother did was, we bought Beatles And Stones.
And when the radio had nothing but duds, well, I turned it off and strummed my violin and bowed the electric guitar. But the rosin, it don' work so well on nickel-steel strings. Rosin works best on keratin.

 

[sleepy]

Say. What do you make of the Sony/ATV deal for acquisition of The Beatles' catalog from the Jackson estate? Did you like the Nike ads that were yanked?

http://news.gnom.es/pr/sony-and-jac...re-remaining-half-of-sonyatv-music-publishing

 

[LeeVanCleef]

So they finally did it! That family is going to carry on the fine Jackson tradition and piss that money away in no time. I read a pretty decent biography of Jacko a few years ago and... man, that family could make a Roman orgy blush. There's one woman who has slept with every Jackson brother except Michael... and creepy ol' "dad of the year" Joe Jackson... and, I think, married two of the brothers.
Those Nike commercials were wrong. At least Pete Townshend got to be the person who decided his songs were going to be used on... well, everything.