I have a Question RE: uploads...

PinballAddict

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I was wondering,can we post modified versions of WIP-type of tables that are by authors that appear to be no longer around(the well-known "AJ")??

That is,I recently posted his incomplete version of "FIRE! (Williams 1987)" since the .vpt appeared on a "Free-site" & there's no restrictions mentioned about re-posting that file.But I was wondering if I could upload a some-what modified version of that same table???

Granted,there's not much changed,but never-the-less it might make for an interesting alternative to the "established" version on the 'net(only 1 seems to exist now).

Some extra-images included,the blankly-colored areas have a more-realistic top&side image now,& a more-realistic playfield slope is about all I was able to change.Still,something is better than nothing,I've always thought...

Please let me know the protocol for a case such as this.

Thanks in advance! :)
 
No, you aren't allowed to post any work that isn't your own unless you have written permission from the author, which you would need to PM to an Administrator.
 
The thing is,it's been well-reported that the author "AJ" is no longer available for contact(all of his websites are dead)...
I've modified pretty-much everything except the script & there's no-mention of him claiming "rights" to not upload mods or anything...

In fact,from the info. I've gathered on his other modders,he doesn't act like he cares whether or not someone "re-posts" or posts mods of his on public sites...

I would ask him,but it seems pointless to email someone who appears to be unresponsive to the degree he is(there were rumors he even died,he's so hard to reach)...

I understand if still no,just seems a shame to let a slightly-better ver. be restricted on a technicality...
 
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No, no, no, a thousand times no. You can always build the table yourself from scratch. And author rights isn't seen as a technicality. In fact, here's the rule covering mods:

The posting of MOD WIP's and/or uploading mods is strictly forbidden without the consent from the original author . . . period, as well as link to sites containing unauthorized MODs. If an author is inactive and/or unreachable not withstanding.
 
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During the waning days of VPForums.com, a modding issue cam up with an author that was almost impossible to contact. If I remember correctly, a 30-day contact rule was imposed... if there was a good-faith effort to contact the author at any and all available addresses and he did not answer back, the mod was allowed, with credit given to the original author. In that case, I think the author in question was Joxer, who was reached at the last moment, so it turned out to be moot. Since some of these tables can be 10 years old, it's understandable that some of the authors have long dropped out of the scene and any site contacts or emails are probably useless. What I would do if I were you, PinballAddict, is contact Pinball Nirvana's site owner, Jon PurpleHaze, and see if a similar agreement can be reached on your Fire! mod... because I can almost guarantee that AJ has made it impossible for anyone to contact him.
 
I've noticed that there's a Fire! table posted at VPForums.org. The co-authors listed are AJ, Destruk and LuvthatApex. If it is the same table that you're in possession of, then you can reach Destruk and LuvthatApex at VPForums.org, where they're both active members. I'm sure that, if you can get their permission, you'd be allowed to post your mod.
 
Actually,the problem is the version I modded was done by AJ & an Anonymous person(literally listed as "Anonymous/AJ")...
So since AJ is unreachable(I read the "VPForums.com down?" thread),I guess I will have to contact Jon PurpleHaze & ask him about this...

Thanks for the info on this.
 
The 30 day rule was one of the dumbest, in a very long list of dumb.
 
VPForums.com has been inactive for almost three years,
Try over at vpforums.org ask around there ask Noah the sysop there too
You will find many tables that can and should be updated
but due to us not being able to find the original authors they sit alone and forgotten.
I have about twenty older pins that I personally have 'updated'
but I cannot ever post any of them anywhere for I never did get in touch
with their builders
same goes for any neat pins you may have that I don't
you can send them through an email but ya' can't even post a link to it either
yeah it sucks as there are tons of cool tables made in vp6
that are screaming for updates but because the authors can't be found
they will never be updated at all
 
VPForums.com has been inactive for almost three years,
Try over at vpforums.org ask around there ask Noah the sysop there too
You will find many tables that can and should be updated
but due to us not being able to find the original authors they sit alone and forgotten.
I have about twenty older pins that I personally have 'updated'
but I cannot ever post any of them anywhere for I never did get in touch
with their builders
same goes for any neat pins you may have that I don't
you can send them through an email but ya' can't even post a link to it either
yeah it sucks as there are tons of cool tables made in vp6
that are screaming for updates but because the authors can't be found
they will never be updated at all

The solution is rerally quite simple, build your own table from scratch. It can't be all that difficult since hundreds of authors have already done it, including no talent bums like me. And if the tables are as bad as claimed, why even be bothered with them? We've had too many authors whose work has been ripped off and released as someone else's work, which is why the rule was put in place.
 
There is a thread in the vip section that discusses this (updating). It was discussed about updating old tables and giving credit to the original author. I don't think anything was ever hammered out, but it was discussed. The 2 recreations I've done I've had permission from Leon and Destruk. As long as we're on a public forum I'll say I don't like mods of my stuff (w/o first seeing it and approving). Parts and code are fine to borrow though. However, should I vanish from the scene do what you want with them, and just give me credit for the "base game".
 
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probably shouldn't be sticking my nose in this, but:

i disagree that building a VPM table from scratch is a simple solution. i mean, you can be a maestro with graphics, a master of visual basic, an old hand at VB scripting and yet be looking at many hours of hard work and learning to re-create a VPM table. that strikes me as kind of a steep price to pay if all you're looking to do is share a single VPM table... in essence trying to make the scene just a little bit nicer.

in general i think that if you start a new table, do the layout, use all your own graphics, but borrow someone's old script, i don't think anyone is going to complain. it's probably been done many times and i don't know that it ever harmed anyone.
 
probably shouldn't be sticking my nose in this, but:

i disagree that building a VPM table from scratch is a simple solution. i mean, you can be a maestro with graphics, a master of visual basic, an old hand at VB scripting and yet be looking at many hours of hard work and learning to re-create a VPM table. that strikes me as kind of a steep price to pay if all you're looking to do is share a single VPM table... in essence trying to make the scene just a little bit nicer.

in general i think that if you start a new table, do the layout, use all your own graphics, but borrow someone's old script, i don't think anyone is going to complain. it's probably been done many times and i don't know that it ever harmed anyone.

Ther is no problem, as long as you have permission. I have had my work stolen and reused without my permission, and I know druadic has also. When that happens you feel a little less willing to share. Why should I do all the hard work and have someone else get the credit? That's why I'm permanently retired.
 
someone stole your scripts?
 
On a side note, Emuchina had most of the Visual Pinball/VPinMame tables available for download alongside Mame and recent Nintendo ROMs up until they quit hosting ROMs. They had most of Wrenchen's(sp?) tables.
I was even there!

They were impenetrable as far as claiming Rights were concerned, but I think Nintendo got to them.
 
someone stole your scripts?

They stole an entire table, plus my avatar, and used the avatar as the playfield image to create an insult table directed at me. Various cat sounds replaced the sounds I had used. But what does it matter how much was used without my permission?
 
They stole an entire table, plus my avatar, and used the avatar as the playfield image to create an insult table directed at me. Various cat sounds replaced the sounds I had used. But what does it matter how much was used without my permission?

I remember when that happened and I wont name any names but it was indeed an insult IMO. It was done by some idiot that does not have any respect for other table Authors. I would have banned the member if I had been a Mod at the time.
 
They stole an entire table, plus my avatar, and used the avatar as the playfield image to create an insult table directed at me. Various cat sounds replaced the sounds I had used. But what does it matter how much was used without my permission?
sorry to hear all that, and to quote a notable peruvian-ohioan regarding your question--

"in general i think that if you start a new table, do the layout, use all your own graphics, but borrow someone's old script, i don't think anyone is going to complain. it's probably been done many times and i don't know that it ever harmed anyone."

anyway, i get the IP issue and the need for site consistency. no real point in re-hashing this ancient debate, and the OP now has a variety of options at his disposal thanks to the responses here.
 
It was not an insult.
It was an unforgivable Outrage.
The cat had passed over, it was reported at the time.
Then the dipshit modded the table while deliberately abusing the feelings of tiltjlp and the memory of the cat because, according to him in his own mind(?), he felt he wasn't getting any respect for his artsy-fart creations.
One of his previous tables had the theme of An Outhouse.

It is deplorable how often sick people misinterpret the happiness and well-being of others as a function of contempt against their existence, and then do despicable things in retaliation for their delusions, or in response to actual trespasses that are unrelated to their targets of retaliation.
Please sick people, stay on topic.
 
I was just thinking, if someone can't make me happy, then don't bother trying to take care of me for my own good.

But that Monster is a Seriously Twisted Bitch seeking Empowerment by borrowing the neighbors.
 
As far as I'm aware the 30 day rule still applies to VP recreations but never applied to original tables. Perhaps the rule was changed with VPM recreations but I'm not aware of anything like that.

If you plan on uploading a modification to an existing Table, You must have prior approval from the original Author or wait 30 days after trying to contact them! This documentation must be included inside The Table Info, script or zip file. Modifications received without documentation will be deleted and not added!


edit: I should note that PinballAddict did not contact me about this thread, I just found it.
 
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As far as I'm aware the 30 day rule still applies to VP recreations but never applied to original tables. Perhaps the rule was changed with VPM recreations but I'm not aware of anything like that.

If you plan on uploading a modification to an existing Table, You must have prior approval from the original Author or wait 30 days after trying to contact them! This documentation must be included inside The Table Info, script or zip file. Modifications received without documentation will be deleted and not added!


edit: I should note that PinballAddict did not contact me about this thread, I just found it.

What a horrible rule. If you're too lazy to make a table from scratch, then be what you are, a player. Anyone who might want to contact me can save their time and energy, because the answer will always be NO.
 
What a horrible rule. If you're too lazy to make a table from scratch, then be what you are, a player. Anyone who might want to contact me can save their time and energy, because the answer will always be NO.

To be honest, I don't mind folks using scripting from any of my tables, BUT as for the images, I have actually taken pictures and redrawn actual playfields from images that are just downright horrible. The scripting I could careless about but as for the images - NO. It doesn't take much to learn how to draw. A little patience goes a long way and ALL the playfields I have redrawn have been done using MS Paint and GIMP on PCLinuxOS 2010. After about a good year I could draw quite well but nothing like Grizz man over at VPF.

A great scenario is Hi-Lo by Northwestern. Now, I found an image at IPDB and it showed the entire PF, BUT it was so bad that it could not be used in VP properly. I redrew the entire PF by hand, did a little cutting a pasting and voila! It came out right. I even did all three labels by hand in MS Paint. That table alone took me 6 months to clean up, redraw and place it in to VP6. No easy chore. Another great example is Hit The Goal by Hercules Novelty. I did the same thing; took at least 3 to 4 months to finish but it looked just about right. I did ALL THIS WORK because I enjoyed it and felt that perhaps some folks out there might enjoy what I created in VP. Contact, 1939 by Exhibit Supply took me a YEAR to finish.

As for modding, I think it's a good idea BUT most authors KNOW what a table plays like and how. The only issue I have with this are flippered tables which I do VERY FEW of since they are a pain in the ass to begin with.

As for flipperless machines, I've played at least 200 different ones and KNOW how they play.

Also if you've noticed I've unlocked ALL of my past VP tables. Why? I feel folks can learn from the scripting and use it. As for the images, that is where I draw the line. If you read ANY of the scripts from my tables, I say that modding is fine AS LONG AS YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. I have NO ISSUES with this. Mod to your hearts content - that's why I unlocked them but KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF.

As for authors that have not been seen since the stoneage, I can only assume they must be reachable. I have no say in this matter actually but I would do my best to find some info around PN and VPF and ask around BEFORE I uploaded modded work that an author did in the past. It's only respectable isn't it? I live by a simple rule (about 85% of all people don't) and that is "if you want respect, EARN IT. If I want respect, I'LL EARN IT." I will admit, it works BOTH WAYS. IR Pinball is another GREAT place to locate past VP authors.

Thank you.

Will
AKA druadic

PS: I unlocked all my past VP6 tables because I just grew tired of locking them and it was a bit childish, but now everyone has full reign of checking out the scripts as well as the images. This is a GREAT way to learn how to use VP and it's the first step to find some new authors. But if you're going to be an author do what they do - find your resources (images, sounds) and MAKE A TABLE or MACHINE by gathering what you need then redraw what you know needs to be cleaned up. Add your sounds, do your scripting. Little by little it will become your OWN masterpiece. If you're going to be a "modder" have fun but RESPECT THE AUTHORS. If you're going to be a player, by all means enjoy yourself.

This topic has been around since the beginning of Visual Pinball, but personally if an author has created something that has taken time out of his life to play right and look right, why not LEARN to become an author? In all actuality it's a LOT MORE FUN that being a modder.

I've said my piece. Take it as you will, but being respectable not to just the authors but the community in a whole will make everything much better. :)
 
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the only problem I am having is there is NO table author name anywhere!
It's not in the script nor in the table info so with these pins I can't do anything with
since there is no name attached to it at all
 
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