Is anyone having this problem with VP9?

[druadic]

Currently, using VP9 I have found that normal "circle" triggers work just fine but are a bit overly touchy. The "custom" ones are really messed up. They don't work for me. I can't figure this out.

Anyone out there having the same problem? No matter what I do they don't seem to work right.

d

 

[sleepy]

You mean the custom Triggers don't trigger or are they firing when they shouldn't?
JPSalas had a table that the Trigger on the playfield was firing when a ball on a Ramp passed over the same spot. Since fixed.

Have you tried setting the Surface of the Trigger?
Also, under Options > Trigger > State: the Trigger must be enabled here or in Script and the minimum working "Hit Height" is 22. A Hit Height set lower than 22 won't trigger.

 

[druadic]

You mean the custom Triggers don't trigger or are they firing when they shouldn't?
JPSalas had a table that the Trigger on the playfield was firing when a ball on a Ramp passed over the same spot. Since fixed.

Have you tried setting the Surface of the Trigger?
Also, under Options > Trigger > State: the Trigger must be enabled here or in Script and the minimum working "Hit Height" is 22. A Hit Height set lower than 22 won't trigger.

Wierd. I had custom triggers set at 50 high and on the main PF and they still won't work. I can't understand it. I'm still at a loss for words with this error.

d

 

[druadic]

I have found TWO ERRORS in VP9.

One is the triggers; custom ones don't work worth a crap even at 50 high. I used VP8 and they work perfect. Using the circular ones do work, but when they score they are so touchy that they count out 100 points and then the normal points scripted. What in the world!

Second is the table.slope command. This doesn't work at all either. I want this to work in VP9.

What is up with VP9? Anyone? If a command works, leave it alone. I really don't want to go back to VP8. I am dumbfounded as to what was going through the heads of the devs who did VP9. What kind of a release is this? It sure isn't fixed properly.

d

 

[sleepy]

I looked at the Options > Table1 > Physics and lo and behold, there is now a long list of controls there. Table Slope is now listed as TblSlopeMinDifficulty and
TbleSlopeMaxDifficulty Phew...which one to use?

So I loaded the VPinball909.exe in Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition. Doing this will allow you to look at the Objects in the VPinball.exe and I recommend downloading the free Express edition (if it's still available; large download@~150Mb. or thereabouts).

In the C++ Object Browser under VBATestlib (this is the library of VP Objects found at the bottom of the Object Browser list) under Table I found
Property SlopeMin As Single
Member of VBATESTLib.Table

So in a table script I tried
Table1.SlopeMin = 2

and it worked!
EDIT: There is also a SlopeMax, as in Table1.SlopeMax = 12
but I haven't played with it yet and don't know what it does...later.

But now there is a problem. Table1.SlopeMin = 2 won't work in pre VP9,
so I tried this workaround.

Sub Bumper1_Hit()
 On Error Resume Next
 If Table1.Slope = 6 Then
 	Table1.Slope = 2
 	ScoreText.Text = "Table1.Slope = " & Table1.Slope
 Else
 	Table1.Slope = 6
 	ScoreText.Text = "Table1.Slope = " & Table1.Slope
 End If  
 On Error Resume Next
 	If Table1.SlopeMin = 6 Then
 	Table1.SlopeMin = 2
 	ScoreText.Text = "Table1.SlopeMin = " & Table1.SlopeMin
 Else
 	Table1.SlopeMin = 6
 	ScoreText.Text = "Table1.SlopeMin = " & Table1.SlopeMin
 End If  
 End Sub

It works on both VP8.1 and VP909.

EDIT: If you try the demo table, shoot for the Bumper. Hitting it will toggle the Slope to either a value of 2 or 6 and, depending on which version of VP you use, will either display "Table1.Slope..." (in VP8.1) or Table1.SlopeMin...(in VP9).

 

[sleepy]

Are these custom Triggers that do not work small, or on Walls or Ramps?EDIT: Nevermind. I reread your post. Are you using the Triggers to change the table.slope?
Make sure to use the name of the table, i.e., Table1.Slope = 2
or in VP9 Table1.SlopeMin = 2

 

[druadic]

Are these custom Triggers that do not work small, or on Walls or Ramps?EDIT: Nevermind. I reread your post. Are you using the Triggers to change the table.slope?
Make sure to use the name of the table, i.e., Table1.Slope = 2
or in VP9 Table1.SlopeMin = 2

Wonderful! Thanks Sleepy so much. It really is a pain in the ass to change this from one command to another. Why are the devs not making these changes public? I don't think we should have to second guess how to do all this crap. Hope to hell someone has the time to make a COMPLETE LIST of all the VP9 commands soon.

What if you don't want to use minimum or maximum but the "middle" setting? Any ideas?

d

As for triggers, I'm TRYING to make custom triggers in appropriate areas to score. Even at 50 high they don't work. I can't understand it. I'm not changing the table slope with triggers. I'm changing the table slope with a keypress.

Appreciate all your help!

 

[sleepy]

I think the Slope changes were for the UltraPin commercial project, so the "trickle down effect" is not in play here.You know the Slope command was never officially provided for by the documentation, but existed as a function of parameters in the background.
I've never seen it listed in the docs.
As for the .SlopeMax setting, I'm thinking it is to provide a range of acceleration or control or limit to the ball's acceleration when rolling down the table, or is it to limit the max Slope/ball speed with regards to tables slope and Ramps?

 

[druadic]

I think the Slope changes were for the UltraPin commercial project, so the "trickle down effect" is not in play here.You know the Slope command was never officially provided for by the documentation, but existed as a function of parameters in the background.
I've never seen it listed in the docs.
As for the .SlopeMax setting, I'm thinking it is to provide a range of acceleration or control or limit to the ball's acceleration when rolling down the table, or is it to limit the max Slope/ball speed with regards to tables slope and Ramps?

Go figure. Thanks again Sleepy, you've been a big help for me to fix this problem. I like tableslope for different reasons; it gives the player choices as to how easy or hard the game really is via flipperless. It is fun to have and gives the player options to play different difficulty settings.

As for the triggers, I'm at a loss for words. I can use the circular ones easily but they are so touchy and "overscore" when hit. Custom ones just aren't working right for me for some reason!

d

 

[druadic]

Man, I'm getting creeped out. 90 reads in less than 24 hours for this thread. Why is it everytime I post this happens? I'm getting some sort of creepy vibe here. Time to keep posts to a minimum for awhile.

I'll be using PM's for awhile until this blows over. Sorry, I just feel really wierd about this stuff.

d

 

[sleepy]

Why is it everytime I post this happens?

It could be my family and their friends tracking me!

Just wondering. What code are you using in the Sub Trigger1_Hit() for the errant Trigger?

 

[tiltjlp]

Man, I'm getting creeped out. 90 reads in less than 24 hours for this thread. Why is it everytime I post this happens? I'm getting some sort of creepy vibe here. Time to keep posts to a minimum for awhile.

I'll be using PM's for awhile until this blows over. Sorry, I just feel really wierd about this stuff.

d

Keep in mind that PN is not only a forum but also a game site. A lot of gamers are on all night, and while they don't post, they probably read post to make sure they don't miss anything. Plus some of us regulars visit numerous times a day, and read a thread every time a post is added. So it doesn't take long for the numbers to add up.

 

[sleepy]

Sometimes I think it's the same 5 or 6 readers checking the thread,
especially if it's an argument in progress.
PN should track Unique Visitors to help cure this symptom,
but then the thread would only show 5 or 6 readers!

 

[Wizards_Hat]

Exactly what version of VP9 are you using?
The most stable are 9.07 or 9.08.
9.09 does seem to still be a little buggy, and I've heard of people having problems with triggers on 9.09.

One is the triggers; custom ones don't work worth a crap even at 50 high. I used VP8 and they work perfect. Using the circular ones do work, but when they score they are so touchy that they count out 100 points and then the normal points scripted. What in the world!

There is no way a trigger can add "points" unless it's scripted to - it could be that it is registering multiple hits for some reason...but I'd need to see your script before I would be able to comment further.

Second is the table.slope command. This doesn't work at all either. I want this to work in VP9.

What is up with VP9? Anyone? If a command works, leave it alone. I really don't want to go back to VP8. I am dumbfounded as to what was going through the heads of the devs who did VP9. What kind of a release is this? It sure isn't fixed properly.

d

VP9 wasn't completely done by the current devs - it was adapted from the code done by the Ultrapin guys, so there are a few things in the code that weren't in VP8 either that we perhaps don't currently want in vp9...there are people working on removing the code we don't want as well as trying to put stuff in that we do want!

Wonderful! Thanks Sleepy so much. It really is a pain in the ass to change this from one command to another. Why are the devs not making these changes public? I don't think we should have to second guess how to do all this crap. Hope to hell someone has the time to make a COMPLETE LIST of all the VP9 commands soon.

Erm...I spent quite a long time doing this: vp9.08 guide http://www.pinballnirvana.com/UpDownload-req-getit-lid-1944.html
and this vp9.09 guide http://www.pinballnirvana.com/UpDownload-req-getit-lid-1945.html
I've tried to show as much as possible what vp9 does - if you want to use that to make a guide to show the differences between vp8 & 9 be my guest.

What if you don't want to use minimum or maximum but the "middle" setting? Any ideas?

d

See my guide for vp9.08 - page 14.
http://www.pinballnirvana.com/UpDownload-req-getit-lid-1944.html

Man, I'm getting creeped out. 90 reads in less than 24 hours for this thread. Why is it everytime I post this happens? I'm getting some sort of creepy vibe here. Time to keep posts to a minimum for awhile.

I'll be using PM's for awhile until this blows over. Sorry, I just feel really wierd about this stuff.

d

Wow - that's a weird paranoia you've got going there. Surely a well read thread is a good thing? Also, as Sleepy said, that's not unique users, with 10+ posts how many times have you looked at it...let alone anyone else.

Anyway, I can't replicate the problem you're having with the triggers...perhaps you could post either your table, or a simplified version that shows the problems you're having.

Regards,
Dan.

 

[sleepy]

Just a suggestion. On page 45 the Manual only indicates SlopeMin and SlopeMax as Editor functions. Elsewhere it is listed as "TbleSlopeMinDifficulty".
I would include SlopeMin as both Editor and Script functions.

But you know Wizards_Hat, you've done an excellent job with the manual. It has long been sorely needed.

 

[sleepy]

I wouldn't be so hasty about labeling bad vibes as paranoia.
Back when I had a table website, I used tracking and one of my frequent visitors was from the government.

 

[Wizards_Hat]

Oh shit man! The Feds are onto us! I bet it's when we started talking about "code" and "targets" & "triggers" we were doomed :D

"Paranoia is the delusion that your enemies are organized".

Regards,
Dan.

 

[sleepy]

With money involved, there is no organization.

 

[druadic]

It could be my family and their friends tracking me!

Just wondering. What code are you using in the Sub Trigger1_Hit() for the errant Trigger?

Finally I found a work around to this. For some reason from what I can gather my system is slow for VP 910. So, as the ball rolls over the trigger (if custom) the trigger is activated and reactivates over and over until the ball finally rolls over it resulting in constant scoring. My system has had many "hang ups" while this happens, until VP 910 is happy with what it does.

I looked at this and found if I turned off the trigger once it was hit, I got the proper score added. Using another trigger I then reactivate all the triggers again, turning them on, once the ball leaves the shooter lane. This has fixed 75% of my problem.

Some times they just won't work; perhaps I am using triggers that are too small. This may be the case. But for some reason this is how I have to use them if I continue to use VP 910. It works just fine but is a few more lines of code that should not be needed.

Thanks for the help folks. Appreciated.

d

 

[sleepy]

Another way might be to give the Trigger a Dim.

Dim a

Sub Table1_Init()
a = 0
End Sub

Sub Trigger1_Hit()
If a = 0 Then
AddScore 100
a = 1
End If
End Sub

Sub Trigger1_Unhit()
a = 0
End Sub

EDIT: But if the ball is bouncing out of HitHeight on the Z-Axis then it might not work.
Have you tried setting the Trigger HitHeight to 72?
The Trigger's default HitHeight is 50, the same number of units as the diameter of the ball, but the minimum HitHeight needed for the Trigger to detect the ball is 22, so 50 + 22 = 72.

 

[druadic]

Another way might be to give the Trigger a Dim.

Dim a

Sub Table1_Init()
a = 0
End Sub

Sub Trigger1_Hit()
If a = 0 Then
AddScore 100
a = 1
End If
End Sub

Sub Trigger1_Unhit()
a = 0
End Sub

EDIT: But if the ball is bouncing out of HitHeight on the Z-Axis then it might not work.
Have you tried setting the Trigger HitHeight to 72?
The Trigger's default HitHeight is 50, the same number of units as the diameter of the ball, but the minimum HitHeight needed for the Trigger to detect the ball is 22, so 50 + 22 = 72.

Sleepy;

Isn't that a bit of overkill? I don't mean to sound negative but won't that cause more problems constantly calling those dims? I could be wrong.

I will try your height setting of 72. That might end my woes. Thanks once again for the help Sleepy. I truly appreciate it.
I don't think you have any idea how many times you have helped me. Thanks :)

Currently I am TRYING to keep BlueBall at x,y located when it hits triggers. I'm trying to keep track of ONE BALL out of 7. The blueball counts double the score within a single scoring area. I've almost got it but it's been really a pain in the ass just to have VP keep the blueball located and once it hits a trigger then it doubles the score. I've not attempted this in the past but want this to happen becuase it seems a bit easier to keep track of one ball and leave the other six white ones alone. I could imagine keeping track of two or three colored balls would be more of a pain.

I've used the Set command using BlueBall so I know it's there. It's just calling it up when it hits a trigger that is making things a bit confusing for me.

On my past releases only one ball was allowed onto the PF at a time and it was easy to keep track of. Now I have 7 balls on the PF at once and I have to keep track of that blue ball when it hits the triggers to double the score of one particular scoring area. Oh what fun.

d

If I can get this to work, I WILL make a tutorial explaining how to keep track of a single ball with multiples on the screen. This would be a beneficial thing for VP authors old and new I think. This tutorial would be extremely helpful to flipperless WIP that use multiple balls with a colored ball counting double points. The more I can help PN be the best site there is, the better I feel.

 

[sleepy]

Bitchy thing, ain't it? How VP doesn't have a method for Ball tracking.
I am flabbergasted!
Something simple like
Sub Trigger1_Hit()
If ActiveBall Then bla-bla
End Sub
, But Nooo!

You would think after Twilight Zone and the PowerBall in that game, that the method would be in VP, huh?

 

[StevOz]

Looking objectively about this 'simple' thing you elude to sleepy, I believe such a thing is simply not possible. Unless VP is completely recoded to become multi threaded and then perhaps with a multi threaded capable CPU, perhaps such readings could be taken at face value.

 

[druadic]

Well folks I DID IT!!!!

I got one ball to be kept track of even up to the trigger! Even with SIX OTHER BALLS! All the other balls scored single scores and once the blue ball hit a trigger, the score DOUBLED. Even if the blue ball is in another area (inbetween other balls) it found that ball and the score DOUBLED.

I WILL make a demo or tutorial of this asap. Truly, I cannot believe how this works. What a cluster----! The idea is to use TWO "set" commands. Once the colored ball hits the plunger "kicker" then you must SET the blueball to become something else BUT you must STOP the last SET command BEFORE you can make it all work.

Once you stop the first SET command, you must make the new SET command and make it equal to a value. In turn, once it hits a trigger, the value is doubled.

Using the Xpos and Ypos, I kept track of the ball itself just to make sure it was actually the blue ball. I placed another empty textbox and once the blueball hit the kicker plunger the result "READY!" would show. Once the ball got to the kicker (plunger) I changed it's current SET to another SET and added a ball1 = 1 value. At the beginning of the game it is zero of course. In the score areas, once the blue ball hits a trigger, the value must be set to ball1 = 0 or all the other balls will count double scores. Once the blue ball got to the X position current to the kicker plunger, I removed the last SET statement and replaced it with a new one. "READY!" showed on the textbox. When the ball was shot, it equalled Ball1 = 1 when it hit a trigger resulting in double score. Once the trigger was hit, the value of Ball1 = 1 then equalled Ball1 = 0. It works. There is more to this than you think. A timer MUST be used as well.

I cannot believe I figured this out!!!! YEEHAW!!!! :) (Yes, I'm excited as I LOVE TOUGH problems like this!) Excuse me for being a bit elated with one hell of a problem like this. SteveOz, sorry. This can be done. Sleepy, sorry. This can be done.

Like I said, it sounds goofy as hell but it works! It requires a bit more scripting than you might think, but it works without a hitch. How the hell did I figure this out? Just random luck once again. I am shocked I got this to work!

druadic

I want to share this with the PN community. I still cannot believe how I got this to work. Good Lord!

If one ball can be traced and tracked to the exact point, I'm sure multiple balls can be too with a bit more scripting.

SATURDAY (1/8/11) I WILL post a tutorial with ALL the info; Xpos/Ypos and how the ball is tracked. I'll also make a tutorial so you can just drop it into a WIP without all the BS. Two tutorials will be posted in a new thread in the "tutorial" area.

SLEEPY - I tried your trigger change and it works at some times. Maybe I'm just not using a "wide" enough trigger. They work A LOT better than they did though. Thanks!:)

 

[druadic]

There is actually TWO WAYS to keep track of a ball with other balls on the PF at the same time. I'll get to the demos very soon.

d