Kicker scoop issues with fizx, I know USER ERROR... but pulling my hair out!

[HZR]

I know and understand its all related as far as table slope ball mass and gravity and materials.
I always have an issue with kickers (not all of them) mainly directional kickers not working once adding fizx and
changing the table slope
examples
table ex1

Scoop(green) using a kicker helper for power (i assume), why is the kicker helper attatched to the 2mm surface?
no matter what adjustments I do I cannot get the ball to make the scoop work, best Ive gotten is landing in the rail (gray) going through the scoop.
Original table slope was 7.2 mass was 18 and gravity was I believe 80.

Whats the best solution? Re render a new scoop model to make up for the slope mass and gravity adjustments?

then this other table, again a problem kicking out of a hole, no matter what adjustments it wont work.
i tried also adjusting the physics in the script for kicker and the object strengh and also the mass gravity just to get it workingand I havent had luck with either.
Tales from the Crypt and also Jurrasic Park [pic 4]

Fizx lite makes no difference, as I didnt think it would.

 

[AnonTet]

It seems from another thread you're fine working with 3d (importing tables to Blender). Ramps on FP SUCK so you're better off modeling those yourself so they are smooth. It's the best way to have ramps and get rid of those pesky kicker helpers (I personally delete them all unless some really odd case comes along).

I see you have a C shape 3d object in there so I assume that's where the problem is on that table? I recall having a similar problem a long time ago and the issue was the MetaMat (btw material settings are for objects of same material so make sure that there's not a mistake in that "C" and see if it is exported as metal. If it is not, make it metal and if it is already metal, look at friction.

I've mentioned before FizX is setup to certain assumptions so if you are messing with ball mass and the likes knowing everything is interconnected, you have to understand you're on your own. It just takes too much time to set up things and do so with others' settings is just too much.

And going back to basics, check again the strength sliders in the GIU are in the MIDDLE. You just want to adjust that when changing strength will mess up every other similar object. Even then, you'll want to adjust 1 or 2 clicks at the most. Personal experience says too much can cause more issues than it solves.

 

[HZR]

I left all fizx as is, its slamt1lts model, and its smooth. The kicker helpers removed it still does the same thing.
and I havent even toyed with blender (ever), i got the plugins working and omported and converted and that is all I have ever done.
Im pretty quick to learn. Almost every one of the tables I want to play better and mod I always get 1 fricking goofy scoop or something that i cant get working.
I mentioned tweaking mass gravity etc because even then I couldnt get the ball to make the scoop,
its something to do with the original physics xml, because all of them have lower values ex (18mass 70 gravity .25 damping) and a 7+ slope, so the ball pretty much super light and falling down quick.
it worked best when I lowed the kicker helpers way down, but it couldnt clear the ramp in between.
I could always cheat for a split second and jump the ball at a specific point in the ramp via scripting if I get desperate.
So remodel the ramp which is pretty much what I figured I would have to do.. GRRRRRRRRRR
Guess Im learning blender this week.. lol

thanks as always

 

[AnonTet]

You can't adjust slope in physics XML (not sure if I had mentioned this before). Not entirely true, you can but you need a workaround that involves using another method. So for slope, with fizx you'll want to stay between 5 and 6 (make it work within this range) but you have to set it up in the GUI.

Other than what I already wrote I would have to try the table myself (if I find the time and you're willing to share. No promises though.

 

[HZR]

You can't adjust slope in physics XML (not sure if I had mentioned this before). Not entirely true, you can but you need a workaround that involves using another method. So for slope, with fizx you'll want to stay between 5 and 6 (make it work within this range) but you have to set it up in the GUI.

Other than what I already wrote I would have to try the table myself (if I find the time and you're willing to share. No promises though.

thats not what I meant, the table slope, no matter what it was set at it wouldnt make the ramp scoop... even at the original 7.2, im pretty sure I even tried the original mass gravity and dampening which is weird that it didnt work.
I figured out jurassic (4th pic), but that other one has me help up. and Im about sick of hearing the tales from the crypt laugh for a while. I need to turn that stuff off or when Im done I wont want to play the table, lol

 

[GeorgeH]

FizX's heavy ball affects the performance of scoops. I had trouble with the scoop on Attach From Mars after adding FizX. I ended up having to move some objects around to get the scoop to work. On this one, I would try raising or lowering the green ramp. If that doesn't work, try turning the scoop slightly clockwise. I see the wire from the ramp on the left extends further into the scoop than the wire on the right. Try making them even with the clockwise rotation of the scoop. Small changes like that can make a difference.

I seem to remember a way to set BAM up so it shoots the ball in the desired direction repeatedly. Try setting it up to shoot the ball into the scoop. If you automate that, you can use the manual camera to look closely at the scoop. You should be able to see what is happening better. I don't remember how to set it up but one of the other guys probably does.

 

[TerryRed]

JYC has a similar scoop. Hate it. Wished it would die. I eventually gave up and added a boost to it at the bottom.

 

[HZR]

JYC has a similar scoop. Hate it. Wished it would die. I eventually gave up and added a boost to it at the bottom.

pain in the f***** ass. Jurassic had one in the top right corner , i hit unlock, select and delete. now it works perfect, it didnt have any purpose other than looks, the kicker under it does all the work.

also thwere are kicker helpers, but what I dont understand is why are they assigned to the surface to the right of the plunger, see photos, that had me stumped.
anyways Georfe, i reied changing rotation a bit, adding 2 sets of kicker helpers, i zoom in and it seems to never make it past 2 3rds, as I said I can get it to the top and it drops into the ramp running through it, but I cant get it all the way around, I personally think its to tight of a scoop, it needs to be taller and wider.
any suggestions to work around, i was going to fast skip it at the top to the other part of the ramp in the script. The other part of the ramp is off because I was messing with height and distance etc.... If I knew how to model I do a stretch on it, you can remove the ramp crossing in the middle and it still wont do the scoop. I gave up and went back to it today going tap by tap on power etc and 1 digit at a time on kicker omega in the physics xml just to see if I could get it to work.

 

[HZR]

It seems from another thread you're fine working with 3d (importing tables to Blender). Ramps on FP SUCK so you're better off modeling those yourself so they are smooth. It's the best way to have ramps and get rid of those pesky kicker helpers (I personally delete them all unless some really odd case comes along).

I see you have a C shape 3d object in there so I assume that's where the problem is on that table? I recall having a similar problem a long time ago and the issue was the MetaMat (btw material settings are for objects of same material so make sure that there's not a mistake in that "C" and see if it is exported as metal. If it is not, make it metal and if it is already metal, look at friction.

I've mentioned before FizX is setup to certain assumptions so if you are messing with ball mass and the likes knowing everything is interconnected, you have to understand you're on your own. It just takes too much time to set up things and do so with others' settings is just too much.

And going back to basics, check again the strength sliders in the GIU are in the MIDDLE. You just want to adjust that when changing strength will mess up every other similar object. Even then, you'll want to adjust 1 or 2 clicks at the most. Personal experience says too much can cause more issues than it solves.

Finally, got rid pf the kicker helpers and remodeled the C scoop, basically stretched the Z axis from 1.000 to 1.040 did the trick. Thanks, I put the kicker helpers back and it did the same as before, like the ball was hitting something. Anyways, now I can finish it, as all is working now!!
I feel a sense of achievement!
Thanks!!

new V_RAMPu

 

[AnonTet]

I guess placement was an issue. Sometimes that extra millimetre makes a difference. LotR has 2 VUKs that were an headache until I resized them. Same with black Knight that has a c like that... Was a pain in both situations (amongst others...)

Convert these monster tables is a pain. Period :D

 

[HZR]

I guess placement was an issue. Sometimes that extra millimetre makes a difference. LotR has 2 VUKs that were an headache until I resized them. Same with black Knight that has a c like that... Was a pain in both situations (amongst others...)

Convert these monster tables is a pain. Period :D

so you resized the models then as well? I feel like I ruined the table, I dont even want to load the damn thing, but most of its done so I may as well finish, I know what to do now though, not placement, but size, the c scoops are to small for a normal slope and mass/gravity. I know when it seems like you need more its actually less (power)

 

[GeorgeH]

so you resized the models then as well? I feel like I ruined the table, I dont even want to load the damn thing, but most of its done so I may as well finish, I know what to do now though, not placement, but size, the c scoops are to small for a normal slope and mass/gravity. I know when it seems like you need more its actually less (power)

As long as the scoop works why feel like you ruined it? If it works, it works. No one will probably know you made a change unless you tell them.

 

[JLou5641]

on my side, i never had issue with scoop and FizX XML. I already tried it.
You just need to find the good setting.

Something that can help, is to set a custom material with no bounce and no friction setting by using xbam.findobject, and then "myobject".setmaterial 0, 1, 0, 0

 

[GeorgeH]

on my side, i never had issue with scoop and FizX XML. I already tried it.
You just need to find the good setting.

Something that can help, is to set a custom material with no bounce and no friction setting by using xbam.findobject, and then "myobject".setmaterial 0, 1, 0, 0

What do you enter for "myobject"? The scoop uses a ramp model.

 

[HZR]

As long as the scoop works why feel like you ruined it? If it works, it works. No one will probably know you made a change unless you tell them.

lol, I feel like I runed the table hitting that ramp 15000 times... Im certainly sick if the crypt keepers laugh and the intro music!...
Should have this mod done be next weekend unless my job is slow.

Thanks for the suggestions as always

 

[JLou5641]

What do you enter for "myobject"? The scoop uses a ramp model.

Here an exemple:

Assuming your save your "scoop" as a toy ( for easier using ), on the root of your script:

Dim MyObject : Set MyObject = xBAM.FindObject(MyObject.x, MyObject.y, 19) --> 19 is the default material for toy**
MyObject.setMaterial 0, 1, 0, 0

It will give it no bounce and no friction.



If you want to make it easier more... Save your "scoop" as Diverter or Flipper model, and then xBAM.FindObject will work only with the name you give in editor :

Dim MyObject : Set MyObject = xBAM.FindObject("MyObject")
MyObject.setMaterial 0, 1, 0, 0


**: If you want to see and find any object you have in your table and wich material is used, put this on your script : xBAM.DumpAllObjectInfo
then launch your table, exit it, open a text file, just do Ctrl + V, and you will have all dumped info from your table with xBAM.FindObject.
Then, you can C&P what you want to your script and give custom setting for any object.

FizX work like that but in a more complex way.

@TerryRed will use this trick too for SH I think.

 

[JLou5641]

I forgot to mention that xBAM.FindObject work directly with object name when those object are wall or surface from FP editor too.

Ex:


Dim LeftInlaneSurface : Set LeftInlaneSurface = xBAM.FindObject("LeftInlane")
LeftInlaneSurface.setMaterial 0.5, 1, 0.05, 0.05

will give custom physics to it.

 

[GeorgeH]

Thanks! I'll try it.

 

[FireDragon76]

FizX's heavy ball affects the performance of scoops. I had trouble with the scoop on Attach From Mars after adding FizX. I ended up having to move some objects around to get the scoop to work. On this one, I would try raising or lowering the green ramp. If that doesn't work, try turning the scoop slightly clockwise. I see the wire from the ramp on the left extends further into the scoop than the wire on the right. Try making them even with the clockwise rotation of the scoop. Small changes like that can make a difference.

I seem to remember a way to set BAM up so it shoots the ball in the desired direction repeatedly. Try setting it up to shoot the ball into the scoop. If you automate that, you can use the manual camera to look closely at the scoop. You should be able to see what is happening better. I don't remember how to set it up but one of the other guys probably does.

I frequently have to adjust kickers with FizX, especially VUK's, but usually it's just a minor adjustment.

FizX magnifies flaws in tables . I gave up on SuperAndroid as I'm just not into fiddling with the ramps, and the table is only average. Also, Knight Rider has a corkscrew habitrail going down to the left inlane and the ball sometimes stalls out descending it.

 

[HZR]

JYC has a similar scoop. Hate it. Wished it would die. I eventually gave up and added a boost to it at the bottom.

lol, kill all c scoops!!! lol, Im sure I wil cringe on the next fizx table update as well.

I frequently have to adjust kickers with FizX, especially VUK's, but usually it's just a minor adjustment.

FizX magnifies flaws in tables . I gave up on SuperAndroid as I'm just not into fiddling with the ramps, and the table is only average. Also, Knight Rider has a corkscrew habitrail going down to the left inlane and the ball sometimes stalls out descending it.

height.. never player either. i dont think