Williams Solved Klondike (Williams, 1971) startup no Balls shown

[burgr86]

Suddenly my Klondike machine when starting up resets the score reels to zero but does not count up 1 2 3 4 5 to show the five balls. It ejects a ball and plays fine, but when that ball drains, the game goes to game over. Something is not activating the ball count unit. I can manually add balls to the game by moving the stepper and when I reset the game the stepper resets itself to 0 position but does not count back up to 5 balls.

Any ideas would be appreciated. I suspect one of the relay switches is probably not right (which relay would control this)?

Thanks

 

[Coil_Smoke]

Have you checked for count up pulses at the ball count solenoid?

 

[burgr86]

Thanks, I don't see that happening, that is what the problem is. What triggers those pulses (relay, switch?). I see the reset happening on the unit, but not the count back up to 5 balls.

 

[pinballdaveh]

the ball count step up and reset coils are controlled by the game relay.a 3 bladed switch on this relay fires these coils, clean and or adjust if needed. the game relay is a latch/trip relay that has 2 coils, its possible that 1 of those coils is not working. its also possible that the internal coil wire of the ball count step coil lost its connection to the solder lug. to test the coil run a jumper wire from common(usually a solid yellow wire) to the NON black wire of the coil to see if it pulls in.

 

[burgr86]

Thanks for your suggestions. I see a game over relay (the one furthest to the back of the machine in the row of relays below the game table) it has two coils, there is also another relay with 2 coils in that bank of relays (third one from the back) it is not marked so don't know which one that is.

 

[burgr86]

Oh, and jumper makes the coil pull in.

 

[pinballdaveh]

yes there are 2 latch/trip relays. the game relay and the game over relay. the relay thats not marked should be game relay, thats the one you want not the game over relay. sometimes unplugging and removing the playfield makes it easier to work on these relays.

 

[burgr86]

ok, good progress, the problem was that when I soldered on a wire on the playfield, apparently a little bit of solder dripped on to the game relay and made permanent contact with one of the switches, solder removed and now game fully initialized when I activate the game relay, BUT, it does not activate from the game reset button on the front of the machine. When I was testing the ball count step coil, I inadvertently touched the wrong wire to common and got a spark, but then tested the coil on the correct wire and it worked. Ever since then the game reset button stopped working, it was working before just not completing the entire startup. Now the startup works if I manually trip the game relay. I checked(tested with ohm meter) the 4 fuses in the front of the game and all are good. Are there any other fuses in the game? This all started when I cleaned all three of the slot reels on the top of the playfield as they were hanging up. The work great now except the no longer register any of the winning combinations. I was careful to line up the reel with the "notched" pin.

Learning a lot and thanks for the help.!!! Hope someday I can help others.

 

[burgr86]

found a broken wire on right slot reel looks like a jumper from the third spot to the first spot, although not 100 % sure. I resoldered but the reels are still not registering any of the winning combinations

 

[burgr86]

ok, slot reels working ok now, found more loose wires and resoldered. All that's left for now is to figure out why the reset button won't initate the game reset. Any suggestions much appreciated.

 

[pinballdaveh]

when you press the replay button does anything happen? do any relays pull in ? is the machine set up for free play? does the playmeter advance , reset relay and game relay latch pull in during reset? of what i see there is only the 4 fuses in this machine

 

[burgr86]

Nothing happens when I push the button. Game is NOT setup for free play, there are credits on the reel. When I manually engage the game relay the game goes thru the complete sequence. It just doesn't from the reset button on the front of the machine.

 

[pinballdaveh]

do the coin door switches start a game and or add credits? what happens when you manually push in the coin relay, does the machine reset?

 

[burgr86]

Sorry, in my previous post I meant to say the game starts when I manually push the coin relay not the game relay. So yes it resets when I manually push the coin relay. Coin door switches do add games but don't start game.

 

[burgr86]

I have been methodically tracing wires with my meter. When I hit the start button on the front of the machine and there are credits on my credit reel there is power sent to the end of stroke switch at the credit decriment. So it appears no power is getting to the coin relay from there.

 

[pinballdaveh]

jumpering out the white/grey wire and the white/orange wire on the replay unit zero position switch (not end of stroke switch) will set the machine up for free play. once you do that try replay button to start game.

 

[burgr86]

That does not change anything. That circuit is already made since there are credits on the wheel. It seems to me the problem is between there and the coin relay as the coin relay does not get energized. Arghh!!!

 

[pinballdaveh]

ok since the coin relay does not pull in on either the replay button or coin door switch, the coin relay coil might be bad or intermit. . have you tried powering it by using a jumper from common yellow to the coil? did you test for voltage on it with the replay button pushed in? did you test the resistance of the coil? or un-solder wires from coil, remove coil and visual inspect coil wires for breaks or wires properly soldered to coil lugs. when i work on a playfield inside a machine i lay a bath towell over the inside mechanical board to catch debris, parts falling, and solder. if you dont it seems like a solder splash will find the worse place to land between wires and switches. these solder splashes can create all kinds of problems that are hard to track down.

 

[burgr86]

You make some excellent points. I found out all to well about that dreaded solder splash that was causing issues but I removed it. I have indeed run a jumper wire to the coil and it immediately engaged the relay and game went thru its entire startup sequence, so I believe the coil is indeed good. When I check for voltage and maybe I am not checking at the correct spots here is what I find. From each of the lugs to common I get 30 volts, irregardless of whether the credit button is pushed. If I check across the coil lugs there is nothing. Which is the correct way to test? Also I tested the coil and resistance was ~9 ohms. Thanks again.

 

[burgr86]

Solved! It was a switch out of adjustment in the Game relay. Thanks for all the help. Thanks to Jeff as well on pinside.

 

[pinballdaveh]

im glad you were getting extra help i was starting to feel like a repair hog oink oink

 

[burgr86]

Nah, you helped me more than you'll know, Jeff just got me over the finish line.