Legal Question

[nachoman]

Is it legal for someone to offer VP 9 and tables for sale? I came across a Craig's List post where someone is offering to sell VP 9 + tables for $17 a dvd. Here is the link -

http://terrehaute.craigslist.org/vgm/3436772150.html

 

[LeeVanCleef]

No, it's not legal and it's been a constant problem for years on EBay. To be honest, people aren't even supposed to offer them for free outside of sites authorized by the table authors such as this one. I was rather dismayed to find some newsgroup postings offering nearly every VP8 table ever created.

 

[Shockman]

Personally, I think it's a great option. I look at it at a service, someone doing the hard work and providing something you may or may not be able to acquire on your own.

As for certain sites where they 'belong', A certain site threw that out the window by doing more or less the same thing that this link does. VPF.org uploaded what is still the lions share of it's content without permission, restricts access, and feels you should pay them for providing the VP tables.

It would be crazy to think such a man as the one manning the linked service is getting rich, or even making any real money from doing that.

 

[faralos]

No, it's not legal and it's been a constant problem for years on EBay. To be honest, people aren't even supposed to offer them for free outside of sites authorized by the table authors such as this one. I was rather dismayed to find some newsgroup postings offering nearly every VP8 table ever created.

really? so my tables must go first to a dedicated site THEN be downloaded?
BS to that I make pins then give them to ANYONE who wants them
whether they are' hooked' into a pin site or not,
no ones gonna' tell me I can't give my FREE pins away from any site I choose

 

[Shockman]

I doubt ruby' was saying that. He did say authorized by the authors. However, these tables are like dirt (some enrich and others just fill space). When you think about it, what VPF.org did is exactly the same, but much less convenient to those that want a collection of them.

I for example, have very few after my computer broke and I got a new one. And there, for a lot of these tables, is no other way to get them, but from VPF.org other than a way that makes certain people piss their pants. It's crazy.

 

[Tii]

people have been selling my tables for years
while i sit here a poor ass bitch.....

 

[LeeVanCleef]

really? so my tables must go first to a dedicated site THEN be downloaded?
BS to that I make pins then give them to ANYONE who wants them
whether they are' hooked' into a pin site or not,
no ones gonna' tell me I can't give my FREE pins away from any site I choose

Uhhhh... you're not very good at reading, are you?

@Shocky: I would almost bet that your Ms. Pacman table (which, BTW, is one of the few VP8 tables I still really enjoy cracking open) is one of the hundreds that were uploaded onto the newsgroups. I would figure that, as an author, it would be irksome to have a version that may not be the one you choose to be representative of your hard work available as part of some mass download. I do see your point in that a lot of those VP8 tables aren't really available anywhere else these days, and most of those authors aren't even part of the current "cabinet-mania" scene. And, at least on usenet, they're not being sold for profit. Still kinda sticks in the craw, though.

EDIT: I didn't even read the Craigslist post until now. I, myself, would be worried about buying a product that is so "HARD TO PUT ALL TOGEATHER" from someone who has such a tenuous grasp of the English language and can't operate the CAPS button. Hey, maybe that's why faralos is so upset... he's the one that wrote the ad copy! :)

 

[Shockman]

Having the most current table up for grabs is a good point. But the prevailing point is that stuff on the web, free or not is going to be spread around. VPF.org's VP9.x tables are the ones I was talking about. I think the VP8 tables, even the relative obscure ones are easier to find than the new VP9 tables which seem to me to be under some exclusive agreement. Maybe not, but I have to hack in to VPF when I want certain tables because I can not find them anywhere else. Example, JP which use to have the files on his page now has links to VPF. UW which argued this point put up one here. Many others are to be found nowhere else. I can see Paul wanting this, but the members thinking it's a good thing confuses me.

I have not addressed the legal query because I did not believe it could really be thought of as illegal to spread freeware on the net.

I hold to the opinion that to buy a collection is better for some than to sign up to a web site, be considered a leech, download the 5 or whatever you can get in a day, and be told you can get more if you give him your money.

 

[Tii]

Maybe not, but I have to hack in to VPF when I want certain tables because I can not find them anywhere else.

well the next time you hack it please remove my FP tables

 

[Shockman]

I just hack my way in. That's all. And that is just another alt with a new e-mail account, hardly hacking actually. If I could actually hack the site I would delete your FP tables for you though.

 

[sleepy]

I can see Paul wanting this, but the members thinking it's a good thing confuses me.

It doesn't confuse me. Not after several dedicated sites dropped off the map and, with them, the ability to download those lost tables at all.
Over at the .org there are still people popping in asking anyone if they have a copy of some lost table, and sometimes it is the original author themselves.
The original authors obviously trusted the sites to stay online,
and they didn't.

Eight years ago, every VP and VPinMame table was available from Emuchina (long since offline),
or from Nicky S.'s underground page (also offline).
Even the unauthorized sites drop off the face of the earth.

 

[Itchigo]

I don't upload there anymore anyway. JP is bound to VPF only because he wants his stuff in one place to easily update. He's not too happy there either. He told me so. If you need anything let me know. I still have a membership there, but I don't go. I will occasionally read unlogged, but that's about it.
Hey Tii, you're welcome at my place.

 

[Shockman]

So... Putting the eggs in a lot of baskets failed, so put them in one?

 

[Itchigo]

His choice. He wants everything in one place so he can update things easily. What I would do if I were him was keep the latest at his site and allow other sites to host them. But he's a friend and I would never tell him what to do.

 

[sleepy]

No, I think we need more baskets, like McDonalds.

People on dial-up may have a hard time with large files at the current site since there is no download manager capability enabled.
So if the download fails, there is no resuming of the partial download,
and each restart counts as a new download against the 5 a day, unless you subscribe.
In which case, on dial-up you can try a large download all day.

The PROC/Python script project for Visual Pinball is something like 230 Mb.
and is hosted there.

 

[bha19]

I am not a table author, but am a huge pinball fan. I like real pinball especially and am glad to have VP and FP get as close as they can to simulating this. I don't mind searching several site to find new tables, but my problem is knowing which sites host which authors, but also knowing if the tables are authorized mods. I know it must be very hard to see your hard work posted at an unauthorized site so how do I find the authorized site? There is or was something called something like "the pinball ring" which listed a bunch of sites which I bookmarked, but some of those folded.

 

[sleepy]

The quick and dirty way would be to check the website membership for the author, but that only applies to download sites that have forums.

I think like emuchina was. If the site offers VP and FP tables alongside ROMs for Nintendo WII and XBOX 360, then they are likely Not Legit.

 

[bha19]

The quick and dirty way would be to check the website membership for the author, but that only applies to download sites that have forums.

I think like emuchina was. If the site offers VP and FP tables alongside ROMs for Nintendo WII and XBOX 360, then they are likely Not Legit.

I only want VP and FP tables. I remember a couple of table author that make great FP tables but most sites will not host their tables so they were hard to find and the one I usually count on site is now password locked with no way to register.

 

[sleepy]

What site is it?

 

[Itchigo]

A lot of the places in the webring here are gone. I'm proud to be a part of the webring now, thanks to JPH.

 

[bha19]

What site is it?

GoPinball and pinsindb just a few days ago changed their login procedure and it seem that my information is not valid. Do you know what happened there?

 

[sleepy]

No, but if there is a "Contact Us" at GoPinball, I would try contacting SteveParadius(sp?) and ask about it.
He is the webmaster.

 

[Isaac Sauvage]

...Eight years ago, every VP and VPinMame table was available from Emuchina (long since offline),
or from Nicky S.'s underground page (also offline).

the mention of nicky's old place got me curious-- looks like it turned in to a network of sites a long time ago, with this one as the most highest-profile:
http://www.worldofstuart.co.uk/


allthough it does almost look like stuart passed away in late 2012 from eating one too many scottish bangers. oh, bowb...

 

[lionheart88]

the mention of nicky's old place got me curious-- looks like it turned in to a network of sites a long time ago, with this one as the most highest-profile:
http://www.worldofstuart.co.uk/


allthough it does almost look like stuart passed away in late 2012 from eating one too many scottish bangers. oh, bowb...

There is even a page to download his VP table " The Great Rock N Roll Swindle".

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/swindle2004.htm

 

[faralos]

I have this site to download some pins too if it helps any
http://www.arcadeathome.com/pinball.phtml
but it sits at a site that has Nintendo emulations and such
so the pins may not be legit...I never downloaded anything yet from there
so have no clue if they are okay or not
EMBRYON also is at that site
the only pin with a working vagina!